Decriminalize Marijuana
canadian1971 @ Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:52 pm
$1:
or three tabs of acid,
Hope you're talking blotter....can't imagine doing three hits of double barrel purple mics! ![[boff]](./images/smilies/boff.gif "From Behind!")
Mind you it probably would be one hell of a trip...but the come down....no thank you.
As for growers paying taxes.....the ones I know do cause they have real jobs.
Tman1 @ Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:56 pm
BigChuck BigChuck:
Pot responsible for most of crimes in Vancouver? Come on ..Who's fighting in bars ? potheads? Hell no they are stoned and can't wait for the Mc Donald's Munchies.Who breaks in houses in cars to buy drugs? Potheads?
Potheads aren't doing ruckus like alkoolics cokeheads crack heads....
Potheads aren't doing ruckus like alkoolics cokeheads crack heads....
You complain other peoples arguments don't make sense and this is your argument? Your whole slop doesn't make sense. Did I catch a McDonalds in there somewhere? Nothing about crime in Vancouver. If you can come up with some other 'argumentive' facts about the crime in Vancouver, I'm all ears, or eyes. The marijuana trade in Vancouver and other parts of BC is what gives street gangs the incentive to compete with other gangs for this trade, gee what do you think will happen when these gangs clash together? Do you deny that marijuana is an abundant commodity in BC? Your location says Montreal and now your telling me you are an expert on crime in Vancouver? You can get pissed all you like, reality is what makes this world go round, not a pot induced dream state.
Zipperfish @ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:05 pm
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
If you make those hard drugs, like crack, legal, you're just redrawing the line that social deviants will have to cross.
A comedian once remarked on all the ol taboos that modern society was breaking. He said "I wonder where all the new taboos are coming from?"
Tman1 @ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:15 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
Yes, in BC there certainly are high-powered gangs fighting for drug control but so were there during prohibition. You would get far less if it were legalized because 1) many would adopt more "buisness like" (low prices, etc) tactics instead of violence knowing that as long as they stay clean they are in no legal danger. 2) "roughed up" dealers or threatened dealers could seek legal help since they won't be summarily arrested for dealing and so won't fear going to the cops for help.
Yes some violence will always be there but look at the amount of violence outside almost any bar on any given night.
The pros far outweigh the cons for legalizing MJ.
Yes some violence will always be there but look at the amount of violence outside almost any bar on any given night.
The pros far outweigh the cons for legalizing MJ.
$1:
You would get far less if it were legalized because 1) many would adopt more "buisness like" (low prices, etc) tactics instead of violence knowing that as long as they stay clean they are in no legal danger.
So street gangs, never mind the Crips and Bloods, would adopt a more business like attitude if it were legalized? Uh ok...so these criminal street gangs will just all of a sudden go with Adam Smith's logic of the 'invisible hand'? Sorry Derbs, I would disagree. These street gangs don't care if they are 'clean' or not, in fact, these criminal minorites don't care about the laws in Canada, it's Charles Darwins 'survival of the fittest' and in this case, the survival of the weed trade.
$1:
2) "roughed up" dealers or threatened dealers could seek legal help since they won't be summarily arrested for dealing and so won't fear going to the cops for help.
So now these dealers will be, pardon the pun, dealing with their lawyers because they have an excuse that marijuana is legal? I may have misinterpreted your statement but maybe you could clarify it.
$1:
Yes some violence will always be there but look at the amount of violence outside almost any bar on any given night.
How would you know? Do you go to every bar in Canada? Do you go to a bar every night? I hope not
I go to bars occasionally and they are all good places and I hardly see how bars can compare to street gangs with multi-million dollar drug trades....$1:
The pros far outweigh the cons for legalizing MJ
Not trying to make an issue out of this and I respect your opinion but I hardly see how the pros outweigh the cons for legalizing MJ, especially when it concerns a commodity in which one province is notorious for and what street gangs consider 'legal' or not.
Blue_Nose @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:44 am
IceOwl IceOwl:
You immediately make the mistake of categorizing people with a problem as "social deviants." Cocaine and crack aren't substances people tend to use just to be different.
No? How many recreational crack users do you know? It's a harmful drug and the people who use it know that. Hard drugs do not fit into a healthy lifestyle.
IceOwl IceOwl:
Glue and gas huffing isn't really socially acceptable. Should we make those illegal? How about prescription and over-the-counter drugs? People abuse those too. The problem isn't substances, it's addiction.. and I could have sworn I already said that. Maybe you should read the thread before responding.
That's the whole point I made: it's not about the drug itself, it's about the fact that the person abuses it. The problem isn't with gasoline or solvents, it's with the idiots who want to put them into their bodies. Why? I challenge you to answer that; it's sure as hell not enjoyable.
IceOwl IceOwl:
Some people will hurt themselves just because they have an addictive personality. The same people who snort coke may once have had a plain old caffeine and nicotine addiction. In fact, if you want to see a great example for drug abuse, just walk outside any workplace at break time and watch all of those people smoking and drinking coffee.
I don't see any problem with someone smoking at break time, as it's their time. It's not interfering with their work.
A completely different issue: what would you say the problem with these people who smoke and drink so much? I'll tell you - STRESS in the workplace. The smoking and coffee are secondary effects to the fact that people are under too much stress in the workplace, and messing around with coffee and tobacco regulations can not possibly change that. The same goes for hard drugs; the relevant issue is not the drugs at all, it's why the people who use them do so in the first place, and messing around with drug regulations won't solve their problems.
IceOwl IceOwl:
"Oh, but those drugs are legal", you say. Well, I see no difference. People who can't function normally without their fix of whatever uppers, downers, laughers, shooters, a pint of ether or three tabs of acid, are people with a problem. Making those substances illegal doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes the addicts more desperate.
Making the substances legal will not help those people with their personal issues. Some teenager who started smoking crack when her parents divorced is not suddenly going to be better if politicians decide it's okay for her to smoke crack. Hard drugs are a last resort for people who are no longer capable of dealing with whatever it is they have a problem with.
maple_leaf1 @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:32 am
[align=center]This thread is useless[/align]
maple_leaf1 @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:12 am
Those who use don't want to listen. Those who don't try to convince those who use not to use, but they don't listen / or the drug has created an addiction which has taken over their brain.
My point is I've been trying to educate drug users for years on the effects of using....on them, their families and their community. It is one the hardest task to accomplish. Unless you're face to face with someone....nothing can be done. Images in the papers, in magazines...arcticles....stories on the news.....it's like bla bla bla bla bla in their mind.....
Nothing is wrong, nothing will happen, nobody is hurt, drug money does not finance criminal activity, drugs don't cost money to Healthcare, .......bla bla bla......
This thread is useless. Humans, in their nature, need to personally see or experience something to believe it. That's how dumb we often are.
maple_leaf1 @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:23 am
Right you are 
Blue_Nose @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:33 am
IceOwl IceOwl:
Do you honestly think that crack is the first really big problem in the life of someone who uses it?
Did I not say that using it is an indication that they have problems and are trying to express that? If hard drugs didn't have the stigma attached to them that they do, they wouldn't be nearly as appealing, because their use wouldn't adequately reflect the poor state the users are in.
IceOwl IceOwl:
No, the point you made is that people do hard drugs just to be different. I very much beg to differ, and reality does not reflect your point of view at all.
As for enjoyment, it's really not about that. It's no different from alcoholism. Addiction should be seen as part and parcel of a severe form of depression. A person who abuses themselves in such a way is usually seeking escape from their reality, not just a means to feel good.
As for enjoyment, it's really not about that. It's no different from alcoholism. Addiction should be seen as part and parcel of a severe form of depression. A person who abuses themselves in such a way is usually seeking escape from their reality, not just a means to feel good.
They're looking to escape from their problems, and we should just accept that harmful substances are their means of doing so? If there's no positive aspect to these drugs whatsoever, there's no reason to legalize them.
IceOwl IceOwl:
What a convenient viewpoint. One person who does damaging things to their body is a "social deviant", while the other is not, simply because the substance is more socially accepted.
Um, doing something which isn't socially accepted would make anyone a social deviant, that's what deviant means.
IceOwl IceOwl:
Your argument is that substance abuse is not healthy, yet you have no problem with people abusing substances at their workplace simply because "it's not interfering with their work."
No, my argument was that people abuse hard drugs for the sake of abusing them. It's like a suicide attempt; the purpose is to draw attention to the fact that they have a problem.
IceOwl IceOwl:
It's not very hard to argue that these people and people who abuse themselves with crack and other hard drugs aren't very different from each other. Neither can function without their fix.
The difference is that people who use hard drugs can't function with their fix.
IceOwl IceOwl:
There are much healthier means of releiving stress, such as meditating or praying.
Someone who is under stress at work because they're under too much pressure is not likely going to believe they have the time to sit around and meditate. It's an unhealthy lifestyle, yes, but people can function as normal people at the same time.
IceOwl IceOwl:
Do you think that people who use crack are not under any kind of stress?
I'm comparing coffee and nicotine use to hard drug use, the similarity between them being the fact that they're used to cope with [whatever].
IceOwl IceOwl:
For people who smoke and drink coffee on their break, no, it certainly won't, since their activity is already legal. For the crack user who's been to jail twelve times for posession, and whose life situation just keeps getting worse, it probably will. Can you imagine what would happen if people were thrown in jail for posession of tobacco and caffeine? I don't imagine their lives would be any better than the crack user's.
Why don't the drugs users just use caffiene and nicotine like everyone else?
You've stated over and over how similar the use of them is to that of harder drugs, so why did they choose the illegal one?
If these people aren't capable of upholding the laws regarding drug use, what makes them different from any other person who breaks the law?
IceOwl IceOwl:
No, it won't. What it will do is take away one thing that is only compounding their problems. Throwing people in prison for have a gram of crack doesn't solve anything, and in fact makes things much worse.
No, being the guy getting caught with a gram of crack is worse. It's his fault, or at least his problem, not the person's who upholds the law.
IceOwl IceOwl:
So what is your solution to deal with their problems? These are people who need compassion because no one else will give it to them. You wouldn't throw an alcoholic in jail to make them see the light, and they won't, so what makes you think a crack addict is any different?
Because the crack addict knew what they were doing is wrong and illegal to begin with.
Alcohol, nicotine, and caffiene are all drugs which can be used appropriately in a normal lifestyle. I drink a cup of coffee sometimes in the morning and a cup of tea at night. I used to smoke cigars on the weekends because I enjoyed them. I drink alcohol regularly, and was quite drunk, in fact, when I wrote my previous post. I can do all these things with these substances and not get myself into dangerous habits, but some people, for various reasons, slowly become dependant on their use, and it becomes a problem for them.
Hard drugs don't work that way, as far as I know. They are processed intentionally to become addictive, and serve no beneficial purpose to society... there's no such thing as medicinal heroin or crack. You can't justify their use, and saying that they should be legal for the sake of the users is like saying rape should be legalized to facilitate the healing of sexual offenders.
BigChuck @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:42 am
1. I`m not saying I'ms specialist of Vancouver problems ; I been there three days this summer and that`s it that`s all...
2. Nevertheless, I don`t think you get my point. The fact is that prohibiton has the same effects no matter where in the world...
Would people buy their weed to pushers or gang if the convenience store sold some?
Are gangs making a lot of cash on what`s legal? Do you know a coffee dealer or a beer dealer or a cigarettes dealer? NO? NEVER? I know it sound stupid but if you legalize something the organized crime can't make cash with it no more ....
And pot smokers like me who aren`t criminals except for that obligates us to deal with people I would have never talked to instead of buying it in a place where the quality could be guaranteed
LEGALIZATION = SUPPLY X 1000 times and Demand stay approx the same...
Like I said before SUPPLY UP + DEMAND stays the same = PRICE DOWN DOWN DOWN....
PRICE DOWN DOWN DOWN = less profit for gangs = less gang violence for the marijuana market...
In fact the black market for marijuana won't exist no more
You can argue about other arguments but arguing about what I just explained can't be done seriously, it's proven facts and every economist in the world will tell you so....
Off course, we can't just talk in an economic basis because if we did so it would be acceptable to us to legalize every drug.
MARIJUANA DEALERS WON'T EXIST NO MORE IF IT SELLS IN STORE HOW THE HELL IS THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND????
P:S: Ice ...gimme a link for the cancer thing please it sounds great...