Is Immigration destroying Canada?
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tritium @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:32 pm
Sherminator333 Sherminator333:
This thread slightly worries me, as a person of mixed race who is British and hoping to emmigrate to Canada with my Eastern European wife and child. The same gripes are being voiced in the U.K. but the immigrants are helping the economy (I will probably miss the Polish people I leave behind).
If the people help Canada to prosper, why not let them in?
If the people help Canada to prosper, why not let them in?
The problem is they don't. Many of the new immigrants are elitist. They really do nothing to "build" the economy.
tritium @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:35 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
$1:
As long as the majority of our citizens are Canadians, I don't care what their ethnicity or colour is. A Canadian is a Canadian plain and simple.
And honestly, Canadians of Europeans descent will be the majority of Canadians for a generations. Everyone who wants immigration changed (the right wing usually) doesn't realize that even though we allow in 250,000 or so people a year, they all aren't from China or the Middle East.
For example, of the 262,236 immigrants to Canada in 2005, just over 40,000 were from the UK and Europe, with another 9,000+ from the States. We actually had almost 1,000 more immigrants from these two areas than we did from the Middle East, which according to some of you, is 'swamping' us with a tidal wave of immigration.
Source -- Pg 27
The days when our nation becomes a Muslim one are a long way off, probably 100+ years or more, if ever. Odds are, the 2nd gen of recent immigrants will assimilate and become Canadian so this is akin to running around screaming the sky is falling...
And honestly, Canadians of Europeans descent will be the majority of Canadians for a generations. Everyone who wants immigration changed (the right wing usually) doesn't realize that even though we allow in 250,000 or so people a year, they all aren't from China or the Middle East.
For example, of the 262,236 immigrants to Canada in 2005, just over 40,000 were from the UK and Europe, with another 9,000+ from the States. We actually had almost 1,000 more immigrants from these two areas than we did from the Middle East, which according to some of you, is 'swamping' us with a tidal wave of immigration.
Source -- Pg 27
The days when our nation becomes a Muslim one are a long way off, probably 100+ years or more, if ever. Odds are, the 2nd gen of recent immigrants will assimilate and become Canadian so this is akin to running around screaming the sky is falling...
What is a Canadian then? As long as they have a passport from here I guess that makes them a Canadian?
I tend to think long term. Yes it will probably be 100 years then it will happen but 100 years has passed already since 1907 to 2007. 100 years is not a long time really. My grandfather was born in 1907 and I will probably be a grandfather by 2077 and would like to think my future generations of my family have the best possible place handed to them.
For your point of second generations of before being assimilated here that was before. We enforced it and it was generally expected people coming here leave their culture behind (depending on the culture of course). You think an Englishman living in York would have tolerated half the city being from Asia as Toronto is today? Of course not it wouldn't have been allowed. These people did learn to adapt somewhat or it didn't really matter if they did because they weren't allowed to populate the country in great numbers in turn helped them adapt to our culture for others weren’t around to influence them including their own. Imagine if in 1907 Canada was like you just “let em all in” attitude. I would be living in a strange country today if that went through and probably be wondering why my forefathers let our country be an open door for the rest of the world to come on in.
Based on what I have seen people whose parents are immigrants still have not adapted here and many of their children have not either. In Vancouver they don’t have to because there is nothing to really conform or adapt too anymore. Since there are no cultural standards or any type of society is enforced people especially the Chinese really can just communicate and socialise with each other in their own language and spread their culture between each other without learning anything about Canada or becoming remotely Canadian. There is multiculturalism for you it does nothing to assimilate people like we should be doing. They are just foreigners or residents living here they are not subjects or citizens and feel little attachment to this place other than making it like their old world.
This is what happens like I have pointed out before did Europeans coming to this continent become like the Indians or Inuit living here? We didn’t we brought our way here. This is not just a European trait the rest of the world will do it as well. As someone of European ethnic origin I do not wish to share the same fate as the natives here and become colonialised by those from Asia or other parts of the world. I wouldn’t say I’m a Nazi or part of the KKK but I wish for my race and culture to survive in this country not become marginalised or be diminished.
Scrappy @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:39 pm
Sherminator333 Sherminator333:
This thread slightly worries me, as a person of mixed race who is British and hoping to emmigrate to Canada with my Eastern European wife and child. The same gripes are being voiced in the U.K. but the immigrants are helping the economy (I will probably miss the Polish people I leave behind).
If the people help Canada to prosper, why not let them in?
If the people help Canada to prosper, why not let them in?
I have no issue with an immigrant's race, I'm not white and how many Canadians don't have "Other" than white blood in their gene pool. My grandmother was a native, ergo I'm not white.
All I want are immigrants that want to come and embrace my country, I don't care what color or race an immigrant is. My only concern is if someone comes from a country that is a theocracy, will they mesh with a democracy? I don't want to sit on the fence with a wait and see attitude, Europe has and they are having serious problems with those who don't want to become part of their host countries.
Sherminator333, you and your family will be most welcome in Canada. Good luck and god speed through customs and Immigration.
PJB @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:40 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
$1:
As long as the majority of our citizens are Canadians, I don't care what their ethnicity or colour is. A Canadian is a Canadian plain and simple.
And honestly, Canadians of Europeans descent will be the majority of Canadians for a generations. Everyone who wants immigration changed (the right wing usually) doesn't realize that even though we allow in 250,000 or so people a year, they all aren't from China or the Middle East.
For example, of the 262,236 immigrants to Canada in 2005, just over 40,000 were from the UK and Europe, with another 9,000+ from the States. We actually had almost 1,000 more immigrants from these two areas than we did from the Middle East, which according to some of you, is 'swamping' us with a tidal wave of immigration.
Source -- Pg 27
The days when our nation becomes a Muslim one are a long way off, probably 100+ years or more, if ever. Odds are, the 2nd gen of recent immigrants will assimilate and become Canadian so this is akin to running around screaming the sky is falling...
And honestly, Canadians of Europeans descent will be the majority of Canadians for a generations. Everyone who wants immigration changed (the right wing usually) doesn't realize that even though we allow in 250,000 or so people a year, they all aren't from China or the Middle East.
For example, of the 262,236 immigrants to Canada in 2005, just over 40,000 were from the UK and Europe, with another 9,000+ from the States. We actually had almost 1,000 more immigrants from these two areas than we did from the Middle East, which according to some of you, is 'swamping' us with a tidal wave of immigration.
Source -- Pg 27
The days when our nation becomes a Muslim one are a long way off, probably 100+ years or more, if ever. Odds are, the 2nd gen of recent immigrants will assimilate and become Canadian so this is akin to running around screaming the sky is falling...
What is a Canadian then? As long as they have a passport from here I guess that makes them a Canadian?
I tend to think long term. Yes it will probably be 100 years then it will happen but 100 years has passed already since 1907 to 2007. 100 years is not a long time really. My grandfather was born in 1907 and I will probably be a grandfather by 2077 and would like to think my future generations of my family have the best possible place handed to them.
For your point of second generations of before being assimilated here that was before. We enforced it and it was generally expected people coming here leave their culture behind (depending on the culture of course). You think an Englishman living in York would have tolerated half the city being from Asia as Toronto is today? Of course not it wouldn't have been allowed. These people did learn to adapt somewhat or it didn't really matter if they did because they weren't allowed to populate the country in great numbers in turn helped them adapt to our culture for others weren’t around to influence them including their own. Imagine if in 1907 Canada was like you just “let em all in” attitude. I would be living in a strange country today if that went through and probably be wondering why my forefathers let our country be an open door for the rest of the world to come on in.
Based on what I have seen people whose parents are immigrants still have not adapted here and many of their children have not either. In Vancouver they don’t have to because there is nothing to really conform or adapt too anymore. Since there are no cultural standards or any type of society is enforced people especially the Chinese really can just communicate and socialise with each other in their own language and spread their culture between each other without learning anything about Canada or becoming remotely Canadian. There is multiculturalism for you it does nothing to assimilate people like we should be doing. They are just foreigners or residents living here they are not subjects or citizens and feel little attachment to this place other than making it like their old world.
This is what happens like I have pointed out before did Europeans coming to this continent become like the Indians or Inuit living here? We didn’t we brought our way here. This is not just a European trait the rest of the world will do it as well. As someone of European ethnic origin I do not wish to share the same fate as the natives here and become colonialised by those from Asia or other parts of the world. I wouldn’t say I’m a Nazi or part of the KKK but I wish for my race and culture to survive in this country not become marginalised or be diminished.
Just what are you saying? Are you saying that only Europeans should be allowed to immigrate to Canada?
You said the natives were colonialised..Who did that? Europeans! You have truly ingrained racial prejudices and I hope everyone else sees that.
Sherminator333 @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:40 pm
tritium tritium:
Sherminator333 Sherminator333:
This thread slightly worries me, as a person of mixed race who is British and hoping to emmigrate to Canada with my Eastern European wife and child. The same gripes are being voiced in the U.K. but the immigrants are helping the economy (I will probably miss the Polish people I leave behind).
If the people help Canada to prosper, why not let them in?
If the people help Canada to prosper, why not let them in?
The problem is they don't. Many of the new immigrants are elitist. They really do nothing to "build" the economy.
If this the case then even I would find it hard to welcome them. But most of those I know hoping to emigrate anywhere want to contribute to society.
Those that don't should not come in the first place.
JakeAnim @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:46 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
This is what happens like I have pointed out before did Europeans coming to this continent become like the Indians or Inuit living here? We didn’t we brought our way here. This is not just a European trait the rest of the world will do it as well. As someone of European ethnic origin I do not wish to share the same fate as the natives here and become colonialised by those from Asia or other parts of the world. I wouldn’t say I’m a Nazi or part of the KKK but I wish for my race and culture to survive in this country not become marginalised or be diminished.
You mean like the Italians or Irish who were marginalised by racists when they first started arriving in North America? Now suddenly they are all european arent they?
Change is hard. You get some desireable elements and some less than desirable elements when you open yourself to change. Is a society advanced enough to adapt to the change? Culture is never stagnant. Yes it does mean that 'pizza' becomes an American/canadian staple where once italian children bringing pizza to school were laughed at. Stagnant cultures are close minded...you can see many examples of this in the middle east.
Its good that we are debating this...thats how its meant to be.
BTW: I'm a first gen immigrant(been here 11 yrs), visible minority(if thats any indicator of anything), my kids are fluently bilingual(french/English). They are also introduced to 2 other languages. Both me and my spouse are university educated. My kids call themselves 'Canadian'...without a prefix...so do I! I claim this land as much as anybody else
thanks for asking though.
bootlegga @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:49 pm
tritium tritium:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Oh, no! There were fewer whites in the mall than 'coloureds'!
Fuck does that ever sound racist. Did they at least have their own drinking fountains?
Who gives a fuck what colour people are? Are you implying that if you're not white you can never be Canadian? It sure sounds like it...
Fuck does that ever sound racist. Did they at least have their own drinking fountains?
Who gives a fuck what colour people are? Are you implying that if you're not white you can never be Canadian? It sure sounds like it...
No it's pretty clear you were calling me a Racist.
Well, then you need to go back to school and learn to read. Nowhere in that quote do I call you racist. I said it sounds racist. Big difference.
I admit my sarcastic comment on the drinking fountains wasn't necessary, but you have to expect some blowback when you post "I went to the mall and the white people were the minority."
Suck it up princess...
Tricks @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:52 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
Suck it up princess...
YOU BASTARD 
Clogeroo @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:53 pm
$1:
Just what are you saying? Are you saying that only Europeans should be allowed to immigrate to Canada?
You said the natives were colonialised..Who did that? Europeans! You have truly ingrained racial prejudices and I hope everyone else sees that.
You said the natives were colonialised..Who did that? Europeans! You have truly ingrained racial prejudices and I hope everyone else sees that.
I think you are an idiot.
Did you even read what I said or understand the meaning of it?
I don't think Europeans should be the only ones allowed here but should always remain a majority for that is what Canada is mostly based upon European culture especially that from Britain.
Yes natives were colonialised by my people and most people living here. Canada isn't a Native Indian country. Perhaps it has played a part to some degree but I could hardly associate myself with any of the former tribes here or many of their practices and culture.
That is my point if we never adapted much or anything of the people living here before us what makes people think other people who become greater numbers than ourselves will either? I simply believe they won't and we will share the same fate as the natives and become pushed aside and lose our own country we live in.
Scrappy @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:53 pm
JakeAnim JakeAnim:
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
This is what happens like I have pointed out before did Europeans coming to this continent become like the Indians or Inuit living here? We didn’t we brought our way here. This is not just a European trait the rest of the world will do it as well. As someone of European ethnic origin I do not wish to share the same fate as the natives here and become colonialised by those from Asia or other parts of the world. I wouldn’t say I’m a Nazi or part of the KKK but I wish for my race and culture to survive in this country not become marginalised or be diminished.
You mean like the Italians or Irish who were marginalised by racists when they first started arriving in North America? Now suddenly they are all european arent they?
Change is hard. You get some desireable elements and some less than desirable elements when you open yourself to change. Is a society advanced enough to adapt to the change? Culture is never stagnant. Yes it does mean that 'pizza' becomes an American/canadian staple where once italian children bringing pizza to school were laughed at. Stagnant cultures are close minded...you can see many examples of this in the middle east.
Its good that we are debating this...thats how its meant to be.
BTW: I'm a first gen immigrant(been here 11 yrs), visible minority(if thats any indicator of anything), my kids are fluently bilingual(french/English). They are also introduced to 2 other languages. Both me and my spouse are university educated. My kids call themselves 'Canadian'...without a prefix...so do I! I claim this land as much as anybody else
thanks for asking though.
I'm 1/4 native, 1/4 Scottish, 1/4 English and the final quarter is German. Are any Canadians true "Whites", nope. Great post Jake.
sandorski @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:05 pm
I live in the Lower Mainland(Coquitlam) and am surrounded by all these Immigrants(Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Middle Eatern, and others) and there's nothing wrong with them. They are friendly whether they speak English or not, they are hard working, they start Businesses providing Employment, and are a great addition to the Community. Most of the Second Generation speak English, dress in "Canadian" clothing, participate in Candian Culture, and are simply as Canadian as anyone from Canmore(except that Mike guy ) . There's simply no reason to Fear them or Hate them.
I love living here in the Lower Mainland because of them. Their Food is fantastic and everyday I step out the door it's like stepping out into the World and not being in some boring White conformiality(new word?) that some of you seem to desire. Anyone who is afraid that "Canadian Values/Culture" are at risk with having them here should consider this: If Canadian Culture/Values have Merit, they will continue to exist and will be adopted by Immigrants. If they don't, Immigrants will reject them. Don't be the schmuck that isolates Immigrants and forces them to reject Canada.
bootlegga @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:12 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
What is a Canadian then? As long as they have a passport from here I guess that makes them a Canadian?
I tend to think long term. Yes it will probably be 100 years then it will happen but 100 years has passed already since 1907 to 2007. 100 years is not a long time really. My grandfather was born in 1907 and I will probably be a grandfather by 2077 and would like to think my future generations of my family have the best possible place handed to them.
I tend to think long term. Yes it will probably be 100 years then it will happen but 100 years has passed already since 1907 to 2007. 100 years is not a long time really. My grandfather was born in 1907 and I will probably be a grandfather by 2077 and would like to think my future generations of my family have the best possible place handed to them.
I'd say a Canadian is someone who speaks one of the official languages (in addition to other languauges), contibutes to society, is part of the economy (pays taxes) and who follows Canadian customs and law. I'd say that would be the vast majority today.
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
For your point of second generations of before being assimilated here that was before. We enforced it and it was generally expected people coming here leave their culture behind (depending on the culture of course). You think an Englishman living in York would have tolerated half the city being from Asia as Toronto is today? Of course not it wouldn't have been allowed. These people did learn to adapt somewhat or it didn't really matter if they did because they weren't allowed to populate the country in great numbers in turn helped them adapt to our culture for others weren’t around to influence them including their own. Imagine if in 1907 Canada was like you just “let em all in” attitude. I would be living in a strange country today if that went through and probably be wondering why my forefathers let our country be an open door for the rest of the world to come on in.
Well, if allowing almost 1.5 million immigrants in 10 years (before WW1 when our total population was below 8 million) didn't drastically change Canada, I'm not too worried about allowing 200,000 (non-European/Non-American) immigrants in when we have a population of 32+ million. We allowed 400,000 immigrants in one year (1911 I think) and it didn't destroy Canada. Toronto and Vancouver had Chinatowns in the first decade of the 1900s, so this ethnic enclave argument doesn't fly either.
Trust me, when the immigrants from this decade have children, those kids will be more worried about a PS3, clothes from the GAP, hockey etc and will join Canadian society as have hundreds of thousands of children in the past.
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
Based on what I have seen people whose parents are immigrants still have not adapted here and many of their children have not either. In Vancouver they don’t have to because there is nothing to really conform or adapt too anymore. Since there are no cultural standards or any type of society is enforced people especially the Chinese really can just communicate and socialise with each other in their own language and spread their culture between each other without learning anything about Canada or becoming remotely Canadian. There is multiculturalism for you it does nothing to assimilate people like we should be doing. They are just foreigners or residents living here they are not subjects or citizens and feel little attachment to this place other than making it like their old world.
Assimilation is not something that happens overnight. But I would be willing to bet that of 10 children born in Canada to immigrants today, 9 ofthem will become Canadians first and foremost. Odds are that half of them will lose their 'native' language and maybe even culture.
Growing up, I knew a bunch of Chinese and African kids who as they grew up became more interested in hockey than soccer, lost most of thier native langauge skills, and celebrate Christmas, as well as contribute to our society. And my friends all grew up in the 80s, well after the much feared 'multiculturism' was put in place...
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
This is what happens like I have pointed out before did Europeans coming to this continent become like the Indians or Inuit living here? We didn’t we brought our way here. This is not just a European trait the rest of the world will do it as well. As someone of European ethnic origin I do not wish to share the same fate as the natives here and become colonialised by those from Asia or other parts of the world. I wouldn’t say I’m a Nazi or part of the KKK but I wish for my race and culture to survive in this country not become marginalised or be diminished.
Last time I checked, there was only one race, Homo Sapiens. There is no Homo Asiana or Homo Europa or Homo Africanus. People are people period. And like I've said in other threads, the Canada you long for died with the British Empire. The Two solitudes is no more. Canada is richer and more diverse these days and IMHO, that is a good thing.
fatbasturd @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:14 pm
Assholes come in evey color and stupid doesn't discriminate 
hwacker @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:17 pm
sandorski sandorski:
If Canadian Culture/Values have Merit, they will continue to exist and will be adopted by Immigrants. If they don't, Immigrants will reject them. Don't be the schmuck that isolates Immigrants and forces them to reject Canada.
It's called our culture , I'll be a schmuck all day. Thanks.
Clogeroo @ Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:21 pm
$1:
You mean like the Italians or Irish who were marginalised by racists when they first started arriving in North America? Now suddenly they are all european arent they?
Change is hard. You get some desireable elements and some less than desirable elements when you open yourself to change. Is a society advanced enough to adapt to the change? Culture is never stagnant. Yes it does mean that 'pizza' becomes an American/canadian staple where once italian children bringing pizza to school were laughed at. Stagnant cultures are close minded...you can see many examples of this in the middle east.
Its good that we are debating this...thats how its meant to be.
BTW: I'm a first gen immigrant(been here 11 yrs), visible minority(if thats any indicator of anything), my kids are fluently bilingual(french/English). They are also introduced to 2 other languages. Both me and my spouse are university educated. My kids call themselves 'Canadian'...without a prefix...so do I! I claim this land as much as anybody else Laughing thanks for asking though.
Change is hard. You get some desireable elements and some less than desirable elements when you open yourself to change. Is a society advanced enough to adapt to the change? Culture is never stagnant. Yes it does mean that 'pizza' becomes an American/canadian staple where once italian children bringing pizza to school were laughed at. Stagnant cultures are close minded...you can see many examples of this in the middle east.
Its good that we are debating this...thats how its meant to be.
BTW: I'm a first gen immigrant(been here 11 yrs), visible minority(if thats any indicator of anything), my kids are fluently bilingual(french/English). They are also introduced to 2 other languages. Both me and my spouse are university educated. My kids call themselves 'Canadian'...without a prefix...so do I! I claim this land as much as anybody else Laughing thanks for asking though.
Italians and Irish weren't the first Europeans really here or in any significant numbers at the start. The Irish who came to Canada did assimilate and were quite different than those found in the United States. They mostly became loyalists while many Irish-Americans were not. Even comparing all North American immigration as if it was all the same is not accurate.
European is some-what acceptable to me they are similar to my own British inherited culture as I said that's why I usually get along better with those from Western Europe. Outside of that that's when other people's culture is foreign and their practices are not even as remotely the same as my own and I do not wish for that culture to come to dominate this country.
Also note I don't associate Pizza with Canada it is Italian food to me. Much like hamburgers are from Germany and butter chicken is Indian.
If you and your family have assimilated and have become loyalists like many of those before you I congratulate you. My problem is with those who do not and I wish more would do so when coming to this country. I think more of an effort to have people adopt more of our practices should be made and to accept this as their country.
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