France 'Yellow Vest' tax revolt is not ending
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Tricks @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:53 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
It's kind of the point of argument, to present a logical one.
Now that's nonsense!
llama66 @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:11 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
And what about the farmers who have to use trucks? Or tractors? I doubt they'll be bringing their flocks to market on public transit or rideshare...unless it's Afghanistan.
Tractors and Combines cost a fucktonne. I remember my neighbors bought a brand new John Deere combine in the late 90's.. I think it cost them almost 200k. Most tractors at the time were 50k+. Dad had a 1956 ford tractor, and I fucking loved driving it. I shudder to think a combine goes for now. Even getting a fuel truck to fill the farm tanks was expensive as fuck. and it was diesel (which was dirt cheep at the time)
I don't think anyone puts a lot of thought into how country folk get around. Not knocking anyone, but if they've never lived in the country and worked the fields they don't really get whats required of farmers and ranchers. Beyond the fact its hard work.
fifeboy @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:53 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Because you have no empathy for the rural people who can't use public transit to get to their jobs in the city because that's not where they work.
It didn't even occur to you.
And what about the farmers who have to use trucks? Or tractors? I doubt they'll be bringing their flocks to market on public transit or rideshare...unless it's Afghanistan.
In the case of farmers ...PURPLE GAS
llama66 @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:55 pm
fifeboy fifeboy:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Because you have no empathy for the rural people who can't use public transit to get to their jobs in the city because that's not where they work.
It didn't even occur to you.
And what about the farmers who have to use trucks? Or tractors? I doubt they'll be bringing their flocks to market on public transit or rideshare...unless it's Afghanistan.
In the case of farmers ...PURPLE GAS
yes. Its dyed to indicate Agricultural use. Its still fucking expensive.
DrCaleb @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:57 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Qu'ils mangent du gâteau.
Really? So in practicing what I preach, I have no concern for the peasants who are starving?
How does that make any sense?
Because you have no empathy for the rural people who can't use public transit to get to their jobs in the city because that's not where they work.
It didn't even occur to you.
And what about the farmers who have to use trucks? Or tractors? I doubt they'll be bringing their flocks to market on public transit or rideshare...unless it's Afghanistan.
You are venturing into territory you don't understand.
Farmers live where they work. The commute is awesome. Firstly, they have a special tag on their license plate that says "FARM". The entitles them to buy gas that is not subject to certain taxes and does not contain certain chemicals. Thirdly, it is not subject to Carbon Tax.
All of these things occurred to me, because this is how I grew up. I have been writing for years that it will cost more to mitigate the effect of climate change in the decades ahead, than it will to start mitigating it now. This is how I think of my fellow citizen, by reducing and paying more now, so that there will be a livable environment in a generation or two. We have the extra burden of what our fathers and grandfathers didn't know about, to erase from the biosphere.
Lastly, where is your empathy for you fellow citizen in every healthcare thread, ever?
DrCaleb @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:58 pm
Tricks Tricks:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
It's kind of the point of argument, to present a logical one.
Now that's nonsense!
Fnord.
N_Fiddledog @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:26 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
I have been writing for years that it will cost more to mitigate the effect of climate change in the decades ahead, than it will to start mitigating it now.
And it will cost even less to adapt to whatever climate changes you fear, rather than believe we can control the world's thermostat. Adaptation over mitigation - it's always worked so far.
$1:
You are venturing into territory you don't understand...
Nice to talk to such an expert. So tell us. If these French suburbanites don't have the problems of an inflated French carbon tax on the top of their list what got them so upset?
fifeboy @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:33 pm
llama66 llama66:
fifeboy fifeboy:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Because you have no empathy for the rural people who can't use public transit to get to their jobs in the city because that's not where they work.
It didn't even occur to you.
And what about the farmers who have to use trucks? Or tractors? I doubt they'll be bringing their flocks to market on public transit or rideshare...unless it's Afghanistan.
In the case of farmers ...PURPLE GAS
yes. Its dyed to indicate Agricultural use. Its still fucking expensive.
It is, but it's cheaper because it has some of it's taxes exempt. All you have to do is add on the carbon tax to the exempt part.
DrCaleb @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:37 pm
fifeboy fifeboy:
llama66 llama66:
fifeboy fifeboy:
In the case of farmers ...PURPLE GAS
yes. Its dyed to indicate Agricultural use. Its still fucking expensive.
It is, but it's cheaper because it has some of it's taxes exempt. All you have to do is add on the carbon tax to the exempt part.
$1:
NOTICE: Carbon Levy Exemption Certificate
The Climate Leadership Act is in effect January 1, 2017. This Act requires consumers to pay a carbon levy on fuel, however eligible farmers are exempt from the carbon levy for certain farm fuels.
Marked fuels used by farmers in farming operations (diesel, gasoline) are exempt from the carbon levy. The carbon levy will apply to propane, aviation fuel and heating fuel.
The Climate Leadership Act is in effect January 1, 2017. This Act requires consumers to pay a carbon levy on fuel, however eligible farmers are exempt from the carbon levy for certain farm fuels.
Marked fuels used by farmers in farming operations (diesel, gasoline) are exempt from the carbon levy. The carbon levy will apply to propane, aviation fuel and heating fuel.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/general/pro ... ll/pgmsrv9
llama66 @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:43 pm
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
And it will cost even less to adapt to whatever climate changes you fear, rather than believe we can control the world's thermostat. Adaptation over mitigation - it's always worked so far.
Until we can't adapt. Remember, its not always us that needs to adapt. Our food needs to adapt too. So if the soil becomes too acidic and our crops fail or our livestock cant cope with whatever changes we've wrought, then we're potentially looking at an extinction level situation, even if we humans have completely adapted. Unless you're fine with a "long pig" diet.
herbie @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:49 pm
It's TWO CENTS a litre cheaper here, 2c!
Just like the status price is 10c/L cheaper when there's no 50-60c of taxes.
Let's keep condemning the tax part that benefits the whole society and ignore the outright profiteering because we're brainwashed to accept it as 'valid'.
N_Fiddledog @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:00 pm
llama66 llama66:
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
And it will cost even less to adapt to whatever climate changes you fear, rather than believe we can control the world's thermostat. Adaptation over mitigation - it's always worked so far.
Until we can't adapt. Remember, its not always us that needs to adapt. Our food needs to adapt too. So if the soil becomes too acidic and our crops fail or our livestock cant cope with whatever changes we've wrought, then we're potentially looking at an extinction level situation, even if we humans have completely adapted. Unless you're fine with a "long pig" diet.
Yeah...and what if a comet falls from the sky and wipes out everything. Or what if the Yellowstone mega-volcano blows. Then there's those damn Outer-space Aliens. What happens if they invade?
But acidic soil...I haven't heard that one yet. The obvious question would be, why wasn't it a problem when both temperature and CO2 were multiple times higher?
llama66 @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:13 pm
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
llama66 llama66:
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
And it will cost even less to adapt to whatever climate changes you fear, rather than believe we can control the world's thermostat. Adaptation over mitigation - it's always worked so far.
Until we can't adapt. Remember, its not always us that needs to adapt. Our food needs to adapt too. So if the soil becomes too acidic and our crops fail or our livestock cant cope with whatever changes we've wrought, then we're potentially looking at an extinction level situation, even if we humans have completely adapted. Unless you're fine with a "long pig" diet.
Yeah...and what if a comet falls from the sky and wipes out everything. Or what if the Yellowstone mega-volcano blows. Then there's those damn Outer-space Aliens. What happens if they invade?
All of these scenarios are out of our control good sir. (Unless we can find Harry Stamper and his motley team of drillers to save us from the asteroid)
Asteroid impact.. if its under 1km you may survive,if its over 1km you'll die, unless you can breathe fire or water, or like to eat corpses and dirt for 10 or so years.
Yellowstone.. world wide crop failure means a good many of us will die. The last time a super volcano erupted it almost wiped us out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory
Aliens.. I for one welcome our new overlords.
$1:
But acidic soil...I haven't heard that one yet. The obvious question would be, why wasn't it a problem when both temperature and CO2 were multiple times higher?
High Soil Acidity means shit crops...
http://northernag.net/AGNews/AgNewsStor ... ields.aspx
N_Fiddledog @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:28 pm
I see and you believe catastrophic human caused global warming will wipe out crops and make it impossible to feed livestock by saturating the soil with acid, is that it?
But your article says, "The major cause of acidification appears to be ammonium fertilizers."
No offense but I think if you're waiting for AGW to kill the soil with acid I think you'd have a better chance waiting for the Yellowstone mega-volcano to blow. If you really need an end of the world disaster scenario, I mean.
fifeboy @ Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:57 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
$1:
NOTICE: Carbon Levy Exemption Certificate
The Climate Leadership Act is in effect January 1, 2017. This Act requires consumers to pay a carbon levy on fuel, however eligible farmers are exempt from the carbon levy for certain farm fuels.
Marked fuels used by farmers in farming operations (diesel, gasoline) are exempt from the carbon levy. The carbon levy will apply to propane, aviation fuel and heating fuel.
The Climate Leadership Act is in effect January 1, 2017. This Act requires consumers to pay a carbon levy on fuel, however eligible farmers are exempt from the carbon levy for certain farm fuels.
Marked fuels used by farmers in farming operations (diesel, gasoline) are exempt from the carbon levy. The carbon levy will apply to propane, aviation fuel and heating fuel.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/general/pro ... ll/pgmsrv9
Thanks for the info
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