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Put up a cookie!

At least the Rev put's up a rolling eyes smiley when he loses one.

Like this

   

Socialists;more like they want to take from the working class and diss them when they bitch about it(like me) or lose their benefits that were made possible by the government of the day.
Being Canadian has never in my eyes been to get something for nothing.
Amazed how many folks on here think thats their right.......

   

Ok, there has been some very interesting points brought up in this
discussion, so let's review: The fact is that we have been around a mere
flash in the pan in the great span of earths life's time is correct but as
far as we know human civilization is the only industrialized society in the
geological history of this planet that is having a measurable effect. Let's
be honest here, Dino didn't bomb around in an Audi.

Now to put the global warming/cooling problem (or rather the excess carbon
problem) into perspective. Let's compare our biosphere in which we live to a
libraries book shelves that has taken eon's to create to this level of
diversity and complexity. Each book is but a species. The carbon problem is
a like kicking one bookshelf. One kick will not knock it over, it's very
resilient and even a repeated hard kick will at best rock it back and forth
but in time the effects will pass. With global warming the problem is
compounding, so in other words today's 'kick' is added to yesterdays and
every other kick we have been doing since the advent of the industrial
revolution and we have been adding to the carbon problem at such a rate the
earths atmosphere can not keep up. So our 'kick' is gaining power
exponentially and in this library of a biosphere we are threatening to kick
over one bookshelf and set off a cataclysmic domino effect. Books will be
everywhere! Harry Potter will be in tatters, the encyclopedia Britannica
will be completely out of order and this will disrupt the order of the
library we call a biosphere. What does that mean? We could end up like Venus
or Mars and most likely Venus. Can you breath chlorine? I know I can't.

So this brings us to possible solutions.

2Cdo brings up an
excellent point and I would like to not only endorse it but highlight it,
put it on a pedestal give the man a cigar and bottle of Jameson's Irish
finest and let the man bask in the glow of the laurels that his idea truly
deserves as that is exactly the position I am advocating for.

We have currently 3 options as it stands to deal with global warming:

1) Ignore it hope it goes away or give the problem 'more study' by research
groups that are hopelessly biased or edited to the point that their
recommendations are essentially meaningless. Potentially it could work but
this is not a plan, it is little more than putting hope that change is
something we can put off till tomorrow and when we know that the problem A)
does indeed exist and B) is a clear and PRESENT danger this option not to
act becomes suicide.

2) Adopt a global consensus to tackle the problem. The current framework
(Kyoto) is flawed and the reason was to lower the standard so that the US
would sign on. That failed, so in a bid to keep China on board we got the
deal that would have credits and phase in emissions over time.

True. The point Ziggy raises are correct making Kyoto a hard sell but still
superior to option 1 leading us to the 3rd and final solution:

3) Individual participation on a massive scale. We clone people like Aanii. In theory this is what is being advocated by the US by letting states determine standards and in Canada the one ton challenge. In reality we could and should be able to do far more and be able to penalize abusers of this global trust but:



Make such attempts next to impossible as such initiatives are hopelessly
mired in bureaucratic red tape and partisan politics. So option 3 may end up
being our one and only hope at survival. Considering the scale and scope of
the problem I would rather the framework under option 2 and have 2Cdo
recommendations followed to the letter at gunpoint.

   

So you agree Kyoto will make Maurice rich?

Not like it hasn't already.

Interesting how I said carbon dating was accurate and got shot down by the rev on that. He couldn't prove it but you did and thanks for that.

I do know my rocks.
and I also know my paleontology,lets just call it hammer and nail smarts like some do.

   

Kyoto is a money pit to make some rich and others feel like they are saving the world. What was that saying?
"Think globally, act locally"

   

Not a chance,Maurice stands to make billions off this kyoto accord and personally it makes me sick,sick because some Canadians buy into his crap without reading into where he's to.

But let the ignorant do what they do because when Mo starts fuc*ing up the country then they will have to explain why they supported this asshole and made him rich in the process.

   

Making people rich is something corruption does. Something that is inevitable when you have to deal with international politics as the squeaky wheels are the ones who get the grease. Is the squeak reason to ditch the whole accord that is at least a starting point when right now we have nothing but the honor system? I would like to say we could trust such a strategy but reality has tempered such idealism. That is why we need a plan with all involved and clear penalties for violators.

   

How do we know that what we're doing today is aggravating the geologic cycle a lot more than if we weren't here? You can say cutting down all of these trees is doing it, but how do we know if that's actually true if we went back in time and didn't cut them down? How do we know it wouldn't be the same situation? Or how about if we weren't emitting all of these polutants? Who is to say that this current warming trend is because of that?

   

Yes and yes.

unless you want to make Mo rich on your back,if you want to make him rich then do it on your own,dont take the rest of the country down while doing so.
I have a hard time trusting a guy that stands to make millions or billions on this accord.

Just google mo's name to see what he's all about and his connections to China power and a few other dirty coal plants that he has plans on making millions of dollars off.

Save the planet my ass!
He engineered KYOTO,but not before making sure he got a few million off it. And he's playing the public as a bunch of suckers,willing to open their wallets and hand over the cash. Dont expect any of my dollars to go there.I'll fight this tooth and nail.

   

There is no way to save the planet. The planet will do what it wants to do. However, we can destroy the crust if we want, but that's about it. All living life is like acne on the Earth's mantle. Geologic cycles are its zit cream.

   

1776 are you a man or an amoeba? The question is not to save the planet, it's us. Clearly we are all in the same boat the sad thing is we are rowing in different directions. Andean Ice Cap, Kilimanjaro Ice Fields Disappearing

Simply saying there is absolutely no correlation between mankind's existence and the corresponding climate change that we are going through is completely preposterous. The ice up there is permafrost. In 10 may 20 years on the outside, it's gone. I didn't see a Krakatoa's go off last week did you?

Zig I agree with your point but do you understand why I am advocating a collective idea over an honor system with no penalties? What would you have in it's place?

   

Sorry, we're not above nature. I am not going to waste my time trying to control it.



And if that happened in a different age, would we blame the dinosaurs for taking such large, noxious dumps?



And why is that? The only thing correlating is that we are in existence, aware of our surrounds, and the climate is changing.

   

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