Israeli settlement and the forces of light
Rev_Blair @ Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:29 am
mcpuck @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:07 am
human human:
Since they are lost from History, it is easy to make assumptions in relation to their name, and as much as it is hard to prove such assumption, but like I said to you in the previous post they have no relation what so ever to Palestinians. I actually believe that the Philistines' name was diverted from their king name’s Philippus, and therefore they were more Philippusians and Philistines than the Arab Palestinians who came from Hijaz.
Well .. Yeah… Arabs conquered the area in and around 600 AD. That doesn’t make the land any more or less theirs.
human human:
”accusation to say I am Jewish, and I am Zionist just because the historical truth indicate otherwise”,
To call you a Jew and/or a Zionist is not intrinsically a negative reference. In fact, in its inception, the Zionist movement was set up to simply move the Jewish population out of an environment within Europe where they faced daily persecution and subjugation. As a Canadian, my perception of Jews are no different than my perception of Free Masons, Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons (the list is endless) …. All these groups are exclusive and do consider themselves superior or enlightened. Fundamentally, as a Canadian I find this irrational, misguided and above all dangerous. I believe you to be a Jew and\or a Zionist because you are taking such a one sided stand on this issue. I think it is entirely plausible to surmise such a thing.
human human:
Palestinians ancestor’s land is in HIJAZ, but if they have to be accepted as present reality, they themselves have to accept that reality first instead on aiming on destroying other people just because their ancestor stole that land and deed it to them in their own dirty hand.
Perhaps the Conquering Arabs from 600 AD were from the region of Hijaz but the vast majority of the people within the area of what is now Israel were most likely of Canaanite and Semitic origin. Land stealing was something that was done on a regular basis by everyone in the region. So what? Its time to stop all that nonsense.
human human:
“for a historically and politically non educated person like you”
“therefore I can’t agree with you on anything you spew that is pathetic, ridiculous, inadequate, and that to say the least. “
It only becomes complex when minuscule like you try to make it as such so he can defend it, and excuse his incompetence of refuting its clear facts.
“therefore I can’t agree with you on anything you spew that is pathetic, ridiculous, inadequate, and that to say the least. “
It only becomes complex when minuscule like you try to make it as such so he can defend it, and excuse his incompetence of refuting its clear facts.
Look, you can’t even write in proper English. Obviously, English is not your first language. Do you see me being cruel to you about that? I am moderately educated in this stuff .. If you opened your eyes to my words, you would understand that I do have some idea of what I am talking about but then this is no job interview and I don’t give a shit about your opinion of me. Attacking me in a personal manner only shows that you don’t have much left in the barrel to drive your side of the argument through. When knowledge is lost, violence ensues.
Wait a minute …. I bet you are Israeli.
human human:
“Not only your “all Palestinians” want all Israeli’s dead, but also the entire Arab UMMA, and this fact is stated in Arab league’s covenant, the PA covenant, their historical, geographical, and school curriculum books say it clearly and that only if we don’t want to mention the five times daily prayers of the entire Moslem UMMA.”
Who cares what the Arabs think or do … The Israelis have to focus on what they can control. They can control this conflict. They can make changes. Israel’s approach to this conflict is beyond ridiculous. Israel has all the power, influence and resources to make this situation right yet it does not. Why?
human @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:01 am
mcpuck,
human human:
Since they are lost from History, it is easy to make assumptions in relation to their name, and as much as it is hard to prove such assumption, but like I said to you in the previous post they have no relation what so ever to Palestinians. I actually believe that the Philistines' name was diverted from their king name’s Philippus, and therefore they were more Philippusians and Philistines than the Arab Palestinians who came from Hijaz.
$1:
Well .. Yeah… Arabs conquered the area in and around 600 AD. That doesn’t make the land any more or less theirs.
The Arab history indicate clearly when Arabs burst out of the Arabic peninsula, no Arab conqueror existed before the seventh century.
human human:
”accusation to say I am Jewish, and I am Zionist just because the historical truth indicate otherwise”,
$1:
To call you a Jew and/or a Zionist is not intrinsically a negative reference. In fact, in its inception, the Zionist movement was set up to simply move the Jewish population out of an environment within Europe where they faced daily persecution and subjugation. As a Canadian, my perception of Jews are no different than my perception of Free Masons, Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons (the list is endless) …. All these groups are exclusive and do consider themselves superior or enlightened. Fundamentally, as a Canadian I find this irrational, misguided and above all dangerous. I believe you to be a Jew and\or a Zionist because you are taking such a one sided stand on this issue. I think it is entirely plausible to surmise such a thing.
You maybe Canadians as you say, but neither you or I can make such statement in the name of Canadians, and veiling off your Jewish hatred with comparing 5000 years of Judaism to recent sects as Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons indicate how right I was when I attacked [not you personally] but your ill knowledge.
All I can say to you is read not the Jewish, not the Canaanite, but the Arabs history.
As far as your words goes, they carry no weight because they are biased to Arabs not because you are attacking everything Israeli or Jewish, but because they lack the historical fact, and the political reality.
I am attacking what you are saying not because it is plain Arabic propaganda that have no factual value what so ever, but also because you know that and still insisting not on refuting my words, but trying to refute the historical facts that anyone can easily see if he take a look at the ARAB HISTORY.
The only Nationality I carry is the Canadian Nationality.
$1:
You maybe Canadians as you say, but neither you or I can make such statement in the name of Canadians, and veiling off your Jewish hatred with comparing 5000 years of Judaism to recent sects as Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons indicate how right I was when I attacked [not you personally] but your ill knowledge.
human human:
Palestinians ancestor’s land is in HIJAZ, but if they have to be accepted as present reality, they themselves have to accept that reality first instead on aiming on destroying other people just because their ancestor stole that land and deed it to them in their own dirty hand.
$1:
Perhaps the Conquering Arabs from 600 AD were from the region of Hijaz but the vast majority of the people within the area of what is now Israel were most likely of Canaanite and Semitic origin. Land stealing was something that was done on a regular basis by everyone in the region. So what? Its time to stop all that nonsense.
All I can say to you is read not the Jewish, not the Canaanite, but the Arabs history.
human human:
“for a historically and politically non educated person like you” “therefore I can’t agree with you on anything you spew that is pathetic, ridiculous, inadequate, and that to say the least. “It only becomes complex when minuscule like you try to make it as such so he can defend it, and excuse his incompetence of refuting its clear facts.
$1:
Look, you can’t even write in proper English. Obviously, English is not your first language. Do you see me being cruel to you about that? I am moderately educated in this stuff .. If you opened your eyes to my words, you would understand that I do have some idea of what I am talking about but then this is no job interview and I don’t give a shit about your opinion of me. Attacking me in a personal manner only shows that you don’t have much left in the barrel to drive your side of the argument through. When knowledge is lost, violence ensues.
Wait a minute …. I bet you are Israeli.
Wait a minute …. I bet you are Israeli.
As far as your words goes, they carry no weight because they are biased to Arabs not because you are attacking everything Israeli or Jewish, but because they lack the historical fact, and the political reality.
I am attacking what you are saying not because it is plain Arabic propaganda that have no factual value what so ever, but also because you know that and still insisting not on refuting my words, but trying to refute the historical facts that anyone can easily see if he take a look at the ARAB HISTORY.
The only Nationality I carry is the Canadian Nationality.
human human:
“Not only your “all Palestinians” want all Israeli’s dead, but also the entire Arab UMMA, and this fact is stated in Arab league’s covenant, the PA covenant, their historical, geographical, and school curriculum books say it clearly and that only if we don’t want to mention the five times daily prayers of the entire Moslem UMMA.”
$1:
Who cares what the Arabs think or do … The Israelis have to focus on what they can control. They can control this conflict. They can make changes. Israel’s approach to this conflict is beyond ridiculous. Israel has all the power, influence and resources to make this situation right yet it does not. Why?
I agree that Israel’s approach to this conflict is beyond ridiculous, but then looking at the Arab's approach make me say what a great job Israel is doing in her approach?
Vanni_Fucci @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:41 am
Yeah, the whole Israel/Palestine issue is a real bitch...but I give my support to the Palestinians on this one...
I don't agree with their prolific use of suicide bombers...or the Hamas Schools of Terror and Martyrdom...but at least you know what they're all about...
Israel, is another story all together. There's so much double-speak and subterfuge going on that no one really knows what the hell they're up to...
Israel pisses me off because they emphatically deny that they have a nuclear weapons program...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu
Israel's treatment of Vanunu is a huge Human Rights violation, and their production of nuclear warheads is a breach of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and therefore, Israel was far more of a threat that Iraq ever was, or would be...
...Israel's government is corrupt through and through, and AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobby groups, through campaign donations, have enormous influence over US foreign policy...
http://www.wrmea.com/aipac/
Israel tries to play the role of victim to the world, but I'm not buying it...
mcpuck @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:45 am
human human:
The Arab history indicate clearly when Arabs burst out of the Arabic peninsula, no Arab conqueror existed before the seventh century.
human human:
All I can say to you is read not the Jewish, not the Canaanite, but the Arabs history.
Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab entered Jerusalem as a conqueror when Safronius had surrendered to him the keys to the city in the year 637 CE. This period was marked by an active movement of construction works, especially during the reign of the Umayyad State (661–750 CE), at which time Al-Aqsa Mosque (691 CE) and the Dome of the Rock (711-713 CE) were built. In addition to these, a number of administrative buildings had been constructed on the southern side of the Haram esh-Sharif (Holy Sanctuary).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliph_Omar
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/yarmuk.html
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/6 ... conq2.html
human human:
You maybe Canadians as you say, but neither you or I can make such statement in the name of Canadians, and veiling off your Jewish hatred with comparing 5000 years of Judaism to recent sects as Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons indicate how right I was when I attacked [not you personally] but your ill knowledge.
Sigh .. you are missing my point. Throughout that 5000 years, The Jewish people have never really had a firm foothold in the area. They have always depended on other groups for survival. They were subjugated a number of times by various groups. The Israelites left the area at least twice (Babylonian exile and the migration to Egypt). I believe they have the right to be there. I really do but they simply do not have the right to move into the area (1947) and dismiss all the other inhabitants for the purpose of establishing an all Jewish state. No country on Earth is all one nationality. Why should Israel be different?
I can compare Jews to anyone I wish. I treat everyone equally. Everyone has the right to exist in my eyes except when they decide that others should not exist.
human human:
As far as your words goes, they carry no weight because they are biased to Arabs not because you are attacking everything Israeli or Jewish, but because they lack the historical fact, and the political reality.
Please. I am arguing with you on the side of humanity. I am not championing the cause of Arabs. I think they are fairly ridiculous as well. But in all fairness, they have been screwed over a fair bit by the colonial powers in the past 120 or so years.
Really, I am squarely focused on the Palestinians specifically in The Gaza Strip and the West Bank. These people should be made citizens of Israel. They should be equal partners in the country.
human human:
I am attacking what you are saying not because it is plain Arabic propaganda that have no factual value what so ever, but also because you know that and still insisting not on refuting my words, but trying to refute the historical facts that anyone can easily see if he take a look at the ARAB HISTORY.
The only Nationality I carry is the Canadian Nationality.
The only Nationality I carry is the Canadian Nationality.
What is your ethnic background? You seem to be hiding that. What is your stake in this discussion. I have no personal interest in promoting Arab propaganda. I have no interest in hurting Israel. I believe in Israel as a country. I simply want the killing to stop and I strongly believe the key is in the hands of the ruling power of that country. This situation is no different than apartheid in South Africa except the blacks had more freedom in SA than Palestinians have in Israel.
human human:
I agree that Israel’s approach to this conflict is beyond ridiculous, but then looking at the Arab's approach make me say what a great job Israel is doing in her approach?
Israel has been merciless, tyrannical and imperialistic … the Palestinians to Israel is like a fly to the elephant.
The IDF conducts reckless revenge whenever there is some sort of an insurrection. As far as I see it, the Israeli’s have a wonderful source of cheap labor in the Palestinians. If they were given full citizenship, this would be lost. Palestinian bombers conveniently provide Israel with the moral initiative. No one ever looks deep into the psyche of each of these bombers .. no one cares because they are to busy replaying the cycle of revenge.
mcpuck @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:25 am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 080709.stm
mcpuck @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:43 am
Since the September 2000 start of the intifada, 4608 people have been killed including 3571 Palestinians and 963 Israelis, according to an AFP count.
human @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:56 pm
Vanni_Fucci,
Double-speak is what Arafat did, and the entire Arab leadership does, all what you have to is pick any day and read what they speak to foreign Media and then read it in Arabic in the local media, as far as Israel goes security and peace is all what they asked for since the beginning and still up until now.
For you to say that Israelis are the ones that no one knows what the hell they're up to is contradictory to every political fact that exists in the entire region, and as far as your pissed sensitivity goes in regard what Israel have and have not, let me ask your majesty this question, if you are ultimately strong, but facing 70 men alone, you’re not going to tell them what you have in store for them are you? [350 million divided by 5 million= 70 to one]
Israel's treatment of Vanunu is a it has nothing to do with any Human Rights violation because he’s a traitor, and if he was an Arab and did 000.1% of what he’s did to Israel’s security, not only him or his family, but his entire tribe will be skewed and barbequed in the name of Allah, so spare yourself the agony of your humanity pretence here, and remember what your Arabs friends did not only to the collaborator with Israel, but also to every moderate they had in their rows in the name of collaboration.
$1:
and their production of nuclear warheads is a breach of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and therefore, Israel was far more of a threat that Iraq ever was, or would be...
It seems like your ill knowledge is taking over your hatred; otherwise you would’ve known that Israel never ratified that treaty, but for your majesty to consider Israel a threat because it has the capability to sustain its existence is as ridiculous as your Arabic bias.
If your enemy believe you shouldn’t exist, it does not matter how powerful and mighty you are or may out to be, you still are the VICTIM, and just because if you were careful and ready for him every time he attempt to kill you and killed him instead, that does not change your status from victim to killer either…
And since Common sense is not something you can acquire because it is a gift, I certainly believe you that you will not buy it even if it was the truth.
human @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:56 pm
Mcpuck,
Therefore you prove my point that Israel’s land was conquered by the Arabs after they eliminated every Jewish tribe existed all the way from Medina up to Jerusalem isn’t it? But for you to swallow 5000 years of Jewish history by saying they really never had a firm foot hold in the area is as ridiculous as saying Israel’s kings and prophets never existed before Mohamed.
In my opinion, the Palestinians shouldn’t be except in their country that they gave free of charge to the king of Jordan who never existed before in history.
Oh…, you are a Jew… No, No… you are an Israeli, what is your nationality? What is ethnic background? Did I ask such question?
If you really want the killing to stop, you should’ve known not only who draw the first blood, but also who doesn’t want to stop, even today after Arafat’s death, Palestinians still supporting killing the Jews in any way or shape, but you are right that the key is in the hands of the ruling power of that country, and I believe strongly that Israel should stop the Palestinians from killing her citizens with every mean they have in their hands, which they are not doing because they want to allow common sense and logic to be part of the Arab thinking instead of the hatred that forcing Israel to response, and even if that response wasn’t fitting the crime that is being committed against her citizens.
The psyche of each of these bombers is the same as yours, and Israel is facing the Arab UMMA that is fighting her in the dirty Palestinian hand, and as much as Arabia hit America in the Afghani hands, and fighting it today in the lost Iraqi hands. But then how can the psyche of hatred distinguish itself? 
Scape @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:30 pm
Actually double speak is what you did.
human @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:43 pm
Scape Scape:
Actually double speak is what you did.
Shallow minds are always quick to judge others…
Scape @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:50 pm
human human:
Shallow minds are always quick to judge others…
It seems like your ill knowledge is taking over your hatred; otherwise you would’ve known that Israel never ratified that treaty, but for your majesty to consider Israel a threat because it has the capability to sustain its existence is as ridiculous as your Arabic bias.
It seems like your ill knowledge is taking over your hatred; otherwise you would’ve known that Israel never ratified that treaty, but for your majesty to consider Israel a threat because it has the capability to sustain its existence is as ridiculous as your Arabic bias.
By your own words be dammed.
human @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:16 pm
Scape Scape:
human human:
Shallow minds are always quick to judge others…
It seems like your ill knowledge is taking over your hatred; otherwise you would’ve known that Israel never ratified that treaty, but for your majesty to consider Israel a threat because it has the capability to sustain its existence is as ridiculous as your Arabic bias.
It seems like your ill knowledge is taking over your hatred; otherwise you would’ve known that Israel never ratified that treaty, but for your majesty to consider Israel a threat because it has the capability to sustain its existence is as ridiculous as your Arabic bias.
By your own words be dammed.
Sure indication of all what you are about...
human @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:18 pm
mcpuck mcpuck:
Since the September 2000 start of the intifada, 4608 people have been killed including 3571 Palestinians and 963 Israelis, according to an AFP count.
http://www.annaqed.com/cartoons/saudibaby.jpg
Vanni_Fucci @ Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:08 pm
The problem as I see it is that Israel was given to the Jewish people at the expense of the Palestinian and Lebanese people...with little, to no regard for the displaced people of the region...
What would have happened if Toronto was the promised land? What if the UN, backed by the UK and US decided to send the Jews to Toronto, and send all the native Torontonians to refugee campsWould Torontonians just let them have it? Even if it was that ancestral holy land, I think the Torontonians would resist the incursions and I would be right there with them...because it's wrong damn it...
What a sick system of belief the Zionists must have that they believe that their G_d would want them to throw an entire region of the globe into turmoil just so they can grow fat off the blood of the Palestinians...
Israel tries to portray the conflict as a case of intolerant Muslims killing innocent Jews...but it's purely political...the Palestinians oppose the occupiers of their land...nothing more, nothing less...any one that is not influenced by the Zionist agenda should be able to see that...