Ask any Iraqi and they'll say the former. Why? Because stability with the possibility of violence is preferable to most people as opposed to indiscriminate violence.

Iraq was no threat to anybody.

I could have sworn the reasons given to go to war were WMD and terrorist links... one of us must have a foggy memory, Roc.

Firing on US and UK planes? NO SHIT. They were flying in Iraqi airspace and dropping bombs on Iraqi soil. Bet you thought the no-fly-zone was a universal thing. Not so. It was a US/British initiative never backed by the UN.

Didn't those graves happen while America was his buddy? Like over a decade ago?

Nowhere in your post is there a mention of a threat to America, and I believe you stated Dubya's policy for the Iraq invasion was to protect America. What gives, changing your story?

The vast majority of people outside America can not figure out why you voted for him.

Plenty of conservatives have been against the Iraq war from day one (the thinking ones anyway) so you can quit throwing the 'left' label around at any time.

Mass graves aren't much of a proof of anything improving since the US has killed 100,000 Iraqis in less than a year and has dumped depleted uranium all over the place.

The torture has continued at Abu Ghraib and every place the US sets foot.

Wrong. People, contrary to leftist belief, are not stupid. They know things will get worse before getting better. They realize the torture chambers are now closed. They realize the rape rooms are out of order. They know the mass graves will not be filled with their loved ones. They know it will not be easy but they will be free of the evil dictator despite what the left has done to assure every obstacle was placed in their path.

Germany was not unlike Iraq in 1945. Look at how they progressed into a leftist enclave. You ought to be happy

If the graves happened over 10 yrs. ago. Saddam's best friend were the French, Russians and Chinese. One only needs to look at all the foreign weaponary he possessed

Depleted uranium is used as an armor piercing projectile. Saddam lost most if not all of his armor in the first Gulf War. It is very doubtful it was simply "dumped" DU is very expensive

You're right Roc. Things will get worse before they get better. Howver, how long that transition period is determines whether people will tolerate the disorder. I would think a year is longer than most people will tolerate a complete lack of progress.

And yes, the rape rooms are gone, but have now been replaced with torture prisons.

By the way, Iraq bears no resemblance ot 1945 Germany except that like Germany, Iraq has been bombed into rubble. There was no widespread insurgency in 1945 and there were prisons where Germans were tortured for information.

Wrong. The "No Fly Zones" were UN imposed to protect rebellious minority Iraqis from Saddam's military attacks.

Saddam's reckless policies of violating UN resolutions threatened everyone, not just the US.

I'll throw the 'left' label around anytime it suits me and where it applies.

So, am I to believe you support the rape and torture of millions? You would allow Saddam to continue to bury his people in mass graves?

Tsk tsk, and you call yourself a good leftist.

With what? Small arms fire??

I'll throw the 'left' label around anytime it suits me and where it applies.

With French, Russian, and Chinese arms supplied to him of course by our so-called allies.

Russian made RPG's with French improvements is hardly small arms. Neither are the Russian tanks, French fighters, French helicopters etc...

Can any lefty name one Iraqi city destroyed by coalition bombing?

Show us. Show us what he was threatening the world with so we can all laugh at you.

RPG's Yea, I hear you can reach countries 100 yards away with one of those! He didn't have the weapons needed to protect himself from his neighbors.

Oh, feel free to prove me wrong.

Who Armed Iraq?

Charles R. Smith

Monday, March 17, 2003

Myth vs. Fact

Name one weapon in the Iraqi arsenal that was made in the United States.
I have offered that challenge to dozens of so-called anti-war activists who claim that the U.S. armed Iraq. According to these protesters for "peace," George Bush Sr. and Ronald Reagan supplied Iraq with tons of weapons.
None have been able to name the specific weapon – missile, bomb, fighter, tank or shell – that is U.S.-made or has U.S. equipment installed in it. None have been able to name any specific weapon system.
All of them have failed the challenge, providing no more than allegations that U.S. parts are in Iraqi missiles or U.S. electronics are being used by the Iraqi military. One protester even claimed that Iraq was armed with U.S.-made trucks.
Since when is a truck a weapon? Are the Iraqis going to drive backwards, fuel tank first, into the U.S. Army?
Time to separate the myth from the reality. The propaganda spun by the far left is false. The facts show that Iraq is armed with a wide range of weapons – none of which came from the U.S.
Iraqi Air Force
The Iraqi air force does not fly Falcons or Eagles. The majority of the Iraqi air force is made in Russia. The Russian MiG and Sukhoi design bureaus supplied Iraq with hundreds of advanced strike-fighters and the Mach 3 Foxbat interceptor.
Saddam could field a force of advanced MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters if they had not chickened out of combat during the Gulf War, flying to Iran for asylum. The Iranians, who love Saddam even less than we do, never returned the MiGs.
The remainder of the Iraqi air force comes from France and China. The Chinese supplied Saddam with the Chengdu F-7, a copy of the Russian MiG-21. The F-7 can fly from unimproved runways and is known to be a vicious in-close dog fighter.
However, the French Mirage F-1 is reportedly the best jet fighter in Iraqi hands. You can view an Iraqi F-1 in action on the State Department Web site, testing a chemical spraying system.
If you still believe that the Iraqis have no chemical weapons, think again. Iraq did not modify its best multimillion-dollar fighter jet to spray for fruit flies.
Anyone with half of a brain knows that you cannot keep a modern jet fighter in the air without spare parts. Thus the Russian, Chinese and French jets should be museum pieces after 12 years of a so-called U.N. ban on weapons sales to Iraq. Yet somehow Saddam has his air force flying over 1,000 sorties a month.
Thanks to excellent reporting by Bill Gertz we now know that France has been supplying spare parts for Saddam's Mirage fighters. The French spare parts arrived in Baghdad not 20 years ago during the Cold War but last year, just in time to face our forces today.
Merci! With friends like, that who needs enemies?
Iraqi Missiles
Perhaps the Iraqi missile force has some U.S.-made weapons? Not. The primary Iraqi missile is the Russian-made Scud. Other missiles include the FROG-7 from Russia, the Exocet from France and the Silkworm from China.
The Iraqi air defense has plenty of missiles ... from Russia, China and France. The SA-2 Guideline, SA-3 Goa and SA-6 Gainful SAM missiles are all of Russian or Chinese manufacture. The French also supplied Baghdad with a number of Roland air defense missile systems.
Even the missile parts are from Chinese, German and French sources. Israeli authorities know full well what is inside Iraqi-made Scud missiles since many of them fell on Tel Aviv during the Gulf War. The Israelis found that the Scud warhead electronics were made in Germany – not the U.S.A.
In addition, William Safire recently wrote a column noting that a Chinese chemical company had supplied rocket fuel to Iraq through a French front company. Safire identified the fuel, the companies and the Iraqi missile facility where it was mixed into new Iraqi rockets. Again, the missile fuel sale was made within the last year, just in time to make new Iraqi missiles pointed at Kuwait, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Saddam sends his love to Paris and Beijing. Without your help he certainly could not threaten his neighbors with nerve gas and anthrax.
Iraqi Army
Okay, if not jet fighters and missiles, then how about tanks? Certainly the biggest weapons seller in the world, the U.S.A., sold tanks to Iraq.
The Iraqi armor force is made up of Chinese and Russian models familiar to any "cold" warrior. The Iraqi T-72 and T-55 tanks are all of Russian manufacture. The Iraqis also have a large number of Type-59 Chinese tanks and Russian-made BMP armored troop carriers. No M-1 Abrams here.
How about attack helicopters? The Iraqis have a number of choppers they used against the Kurds and Shiites.
So sorry, the Iraqi attack chopper force is Russian and French. The Russians supplied Iraq with a large number of the Mil-24 Hind attack helicopters, armed to the teeth with cannon, missiles and even chemical weapon sprayers.
The French supplied Saddam with a large number of Gazelle attack helicopters. The same French also managed to keep Saddam's attack helicopter force flying today with spare parts.
Guns, then? Surely the U.S. supplied Saddam with guns?
Nope. The main Iraqi artillery is the French 155mm howitzer. The remainder of Iraq's artillery is 122mm Russian-made cannons and Russian-made short-range rocket launchers. Even the Iraqi foot soldier is armed with the venerable AK-47 of Russian and Chinese make.
Iran-Iraq War
The facts are that during the Iran-Iraq war the U.S. supplied Iraq with something much more valuable than guns: satellite information on when and where the Iranians were going to attack.
Of course, current anti-war activists seize this piece of information without putting it into historical context. The information was supplied during the height of the Cold War. The main threat to America was the Soviet Union and the biggest fear in the Gulf was the Ayatollah Khomeini.
You remember the chant "death to America"? It almost seems that the ayatollah invented it. Ironically, the Ayatollah made his way to Tehran from his home in exile – Paris.
The Reagan administration, aware that the Iranian ayatollah had threatened to turn the Gulf into a sea of fire, assisted Saddam so that he would not lose the war. The assistance stopped short of helping Saddam win the war.
In fact, when it appeared the Iraqis were on the verge of victory, the Reagan administration transferred real weapons to the Iranians. The infamous Iran-Contra scandal involved a large number of badly needed U.S. TOW anti-tank missiles that were sold to Iran.
The U.S. missiles proved to be critical to the Iranian defense against Iraq's superior Russian tank force. The result was a stalemate and the war ended.
France/Russia/China
The fact is that Saddam owes billions to France, Russia and China for weapons purchases. Clearly, Iraq is buying more weapons from Paris and Beijing despite a U.N. arms embargo. Perhaps one reason why Paris, Moscow and Beijing oppose a war in Iraq is because they would lose their best customer.
The propaganda spun by the far left that the U.S. armed Iraq is false and backed by no facts. The so-called anti-war types are more interested in slamming Bush than stopping a war. None have been able to name one American-made weapon in the Iraqi arsenal.
More importantly, none of them can give one good reason why Saddam should stay in power.