Right to be angry.....Muslim Cartoons
Moogle @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:17 am
Thing is though that people DO run satirical cartoons about Christ. Just look at the South Park series, they make fun of just about every sect of Christianity and manage to do it so intelligently and well that no one gets upset.
I'm afraid that I'm with the Danes on this one, Free Speech has to take a stand somewhere. Besides, how many of these muslim fanatics would be burning down embassies if they'd never received the cartoons?
Just because you see something you don't agree with does not give you the fucking right to loot and kill. Unless you're a Viking, then it's expected.
Moogle @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:31 am
Avro Avro:
I guess you chose not to read the article then.
Sorry, I'm 21.
ziggy @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:36 am
Here's another that makes me wonder just who is inciting hatred here.
$1:
Violent riots by Muslim extremists around the world are not just disturbing — they are frightening.
The riots, sparked by the publication last year in a small Danish newspaper of 12 cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad, are inexcusable.
What is more, we are now learning the riots — burnings of embassies, killings of innocent people — are likely not at all the spontaneous reaction of decent Muslims offended by the cartoons but an orchestrated campaign by radical Islamic leaders to spur hatred against western democracies for political purposes.
The U.S. has already singled out Syria and Iran — Iran being the home of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who wants to wipe Israel off the map — as two of the villains behind the scenes.
One has to ask why the rioting and savagery is occurring now when the cartoons were originally published last September and then forgotten by almost everyone?
Well, the evidence is now building almost riot by riot that extremist imams — the equivalent of Christian ministers and priests or Jewish rabbis — toured the Mideast in recent weeks and carefully set the scene for the uprisings we are now witnessing.
The riots, sparked by the publication last year in a small Danish newspaper of 12 cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad, are inexcusable.
What is more, we are now learning the riots — burnings of embassies, killings of innocent people — are likely not at all the spontaneous reaction of decent Muslims offended by the cartoons but an orchestrated campaign by radical Islamic leaders to spur hatred against western democracies for political purposes.
The U.S. has already singled out Syria and Iran — Iran being the home of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who wants to wipe Israel off the map — as two of the villains behind the scenes.
One has to ask why the rioting and savagery is occurring now when the cartoons were originally published last September and then forgotten by almost everyone?
Well, the evidence is now building almost riot by riot that extremist imams — the equivalent of Christian ministers and priests or Jewish rabbis — toured the Mideast in recent weeks and carefully set the scene for the uprisings we are now witnessing.
source
bootlegga @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:44 am
Western Canadian magazine publishes Muhammad cartoons
Last Updated Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:00:28 EST
CBC News
The publisher of an Alberta-based political magazine is defending his decision to publish controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, saying Western media have been cowed into fear.
Ezra Levant of the Western Standard told CBC Newsworld that he published the dozen cartoons in Monday's edition because they are "the central fact in the largest news story of the month.
"I'm doing something completely normal. I'm publishing the centre of a controversy. That's what news magazines do."
The cartoons, published in September in Denmark and reprinted in other European papers in recent weeks, have outraged the Muslim world, setting off protests and boycotts of Danish products in several countries.
Islamic tradition prohibits any depiction of the Prophet, even a respectful one, on the grounds that it could promote idolatry.
The caricatures include a drawing of Muhammad wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb. Another shows him saying that paradise was running short of virgins for suicide bombers.
Most media in Canada and the United States have refused to publish the cartoons. But Levant dismissed the notion that the decision is based on respect for Islam, saying the real reason is "out of fear."
He said news organizations are more than willing to publish items that Christians find offensive because Christians only react by writing a letter to the editor.
"They don't bomb embassies and behead journalists," Levant said.
"Don't tell me the CBC respects religion. It's afraid of one religion."
The Western Standard has a circulation of 40,000 and publishes every two weeks.
Levant, who described the cartoons as "innocuous," said he would run cartoons about the Holocaust if Jews were burning embassies in response.
"We're not publishing them for their editorial merits. They're boring cartoons, they're bland. We're not running them because we share their views.
"We're running them because they're the central fact that caused radical Muslims around the world to riot."
Mohamed Elmasry, leader of the Canadian Islamic Congress, told the Globe and Mail that his organization will seek to have charges laid against the magazine under Canada's laws against distributing hate literature.
"It's unfortunate," said Elmasry, who had urged Levant not to republish the images. "I think he really goes against the will and the values of Canadians by this provocative action."
Link
VitaminC @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:01 am
ziggy ziggy:
Here's another that makes me wonder just who is inciting hatred here.
source
$1:
Violent riots by Muslim extremists around the world are not just disturbing — they are frightening.
The riots, sparked by the publication last year in a small Danish newspaper of 12 cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad, are inexcusable.
What is more, we are now learning the riots — burnings of embassies, killings of innocent people — are likely not at all the spontaneous reaction of decent Muslims offended by the cartoons but an orchestrated campaign by radical Islamic leaders to spur hatred against western democracies for political purposes.
The U.S. has already singled out Syria and Iran — Iran being the home of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who wants to wipe Israel off the map — as two of the villains behind the scenes.
One has to ask why the rioting and savagery is occurring now when the cartoons were originally published last September and then forgotten by almost everyone?
Well, the evidence is now building almost riot by riot that extremist imams — the equivalent of Christian ministers and priests or Jewish rabbis — toured the Mideast in recent weeks and carefully set the scene for the uprisings we are now witnessing.
The riots, sparked by the publication last year in a small Danish newspaper of 12 cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad, are inexcusable.
What is more, we are now learning the riots — burnings of embassies, killings of innocent people — are likely not at all the spontaneous reaction of decent Muslims offended by the cartoons but an orchestrated campaign by radical Islamic leaders to spur hatred against western democracies for political purposes.
The U.S. has already singled out Syria and Iran — Iran being the home of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who wants to wipe Israel off the map — as two of the villains behind the scenes.
One has to ask why the rioting and savagery is occurring now when the cartoons were originally published last September and then forgotten by almost everyone?
Well, the evidence is now building almost riot by riot that extremist imams — the equivalent of Christian ministers and priests or Jewish rabbis — toured the Mideast in recent weeks and carefully set the scene for the uprisings we are now witnessing.
source
Exactly.
Now people can stop blaming Muslims, and start blaming Extremists. Muslims were highly insulted and pissed off. The extremists decided to resort to violence, but the majority of moderate Muslims decided peaceful protests like boycott and discussion were the way to go.....
There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and only a couple thousand at the violent protests.....And out of the thousands at the protests probably only a couple hundred did violent things.......
And then the media showed it a million times so you think it happened a million times....
For every extremist Iman who called for violence, there are 10 moderates who called for peaceful protest
xerxes @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:05 am
And let's not forget where these protests are happening as well. Syria, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon; all the countries with strict authoritarian regimes who are doing the best to use a wonderful distraction to distract the people they oppress.
ziggy @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:30 am
$1:
Militant Muslim extremists blow themselves up in an effort to kill and maim. Not one word of condemnation from the vast majority. Print a handful of cartoons and they demand tolerance.
It was only a matter of time before a t-shirt came out.
VitaminC @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:32 am
Here's a quote from a globe "online question period"
Nnaemeka Ekwosimba, Ottawa: Have all those (people) demonstrating, killing and burning buildings seen the cartoons or do they carry out their acts based on hearsay?
Doug Saunders: Hearsay, mostly. Our reporter Mark MacKinnon in Beiruit asked a number of anti-cartoon protesters what they believed had been printed. Most thought that every major English newspaper had printed them, and that they include images of Mohammed sodomizing people and appearing as a pig. In fact, no such images were among them, and no major English newspaper has printed them. So I'd say there are some pretty serious distortions out there in the Middle East — but this is what people now believe across the region
The whole thing is really interesting......you can read it here.
Motorcycleboy @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:32 pm
Margolis? He's got to be the only guy from his generation who couldn't get over to Viet Nam.
He's the most pompous fool who writes in any major daily.
$1:
[b]By Eric Margolis[/B]
But free speech does not include the right to scream "fire" in a crowded movie theatre. And that's just what the European newspapers did. They were trying to boost circulation and pander to anti-immigrant right wingers by attacking Islam.
But free speech does not include the right to scream "fire" in a crowded movie theatre. And that's just what the European newspapers did. They were trying to boost circulation and pander to anti-immigrant right wingers by attacking Islam.
They didn't print anything that is any worse than that which is written about Christianity. The papers were just pointing out that if it's ok to insult Christianity, (and it is in a free society) then it's equally acceptable to criticise Islam.
Millions of Muslims are living in the west. If they're going to live here, they have to accept that religion and politics are fair game for criticism and satire here. Even their's. It's not incumbent upon western societies to tailor their sensibilities for Muslims, it's up to Muslims to adapt to us.
$1:
Margolis:This whole ugly business is really about anti-Islamism -- the modern version of 1930's anti-Semitism.
Over the top Rhetoric, something Margolis is famous for.
$1:
Margolis:
Promoting hatred and scorn for Islam and Muslims has become the only socially and legally acceptable modern prejudice.
Promoting hatred and scorn for Islam and Muslims has become the only socially and legally acceptable modern prejudice.
Bullshit, it's the exact opposite. Any criticism of Islam is met with the kind of firestorm we've seen in the last few weeks. When Andre Serrano did "Piss Christ" there was no such widespread outrage and newspapers weren't declining to run it.
$1:
Margolis:
Question the Holocaust in Germany or Austria and you go to jail, as Pat Buchanan just wrote. Doing the same in Canada gets you jailed or expelled. But slandering Islam is okay.
Question the Holocaust in Germany or Austria and you go to jail, as Pat Buchanan just wrote. Doing the same in Canada gets you jailed or expelled. But slandering Islam is okay.
Slandering religion in general is acceptable in the west. I just saw a recent Simpson's episode that had Homer as Joseph, Marge as Mary and Bart as Jesus. I didn't hear any Christians marching in the streets over it. Try depicting Mohammed as Homer and see what happens.
We only pay attention to it when it relates to Islam because unlike Christians or Jews, many Muslims run around like their hair's on fire at every slight they suffer, real or perceived.
His point about questioning the Holocaust is essentially correct. I disagree with that. I don't like hate speech laws. People should be able to say what they want, even if they're wrong.
$1:
Margolis:The Danish paper that ran the racist cartoons "to defend free speech" refused in 2003 to run satirical cartoons of Christ, saying "it would provoke an outrage."
Perhaps he's right. So what? Each paper has it's own editorial position and they have every right to tailor their content to their readership. Many other papers have published content offensive to Christians and Jews. That's their right too.
Maybe the paper at the centre of this latest storm has a large following among Danish Christians. We don't know because Margolis, as usual, doesn't provide any context for his allegation.
$1:
Margolis:
America's four leading evangelical preachers, Jerry Falwell, Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, and Marvin Olasky preached a "crusade" against Iraq.
Graham branded Islam "an evil and wicked religion."
Mohammed was called "a terrorist."
Among American evangelical Christians, one poll showed 87% supported invading Iraq and hoped to convert Iraq's Muslims to Christianity.
America's four leading evangelical preachers, Jerry Falwell, Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, and Marvin Olasky preached a "crusade" against Iraq.
Graham branded Islam "an evil and wicked religion."
Mohammed was called "a terrorist."
Among American evangelical Christians, one poll showed 87% supported invading Iraq and hoped to convert Iraq's Muslims to Christianity.
So Margolis has found 4 crackpots on the Christian Right in deepest, darkest, fundamentalist America who said nasty things about Muslims. Big deal!
Shall I dredge up a couple of thousand quotes from a couple of thousand fundamentalist Islamic Imams calling Jews "Pigs and Monkeys" and Christians "Infidel Pork Eating Idol Worshipers?" Or does the point speak for itself?
$1:
Margolis:
Italy's Oriana Fallaci churns out best sellers depicting Islam as a backwards creed of thugs.
Italy's Oriana Fallaci churns out best sellers depicting Islam as a backwards creed of thugs.
That's an outright falsehood and misrepresentation. He figures he'll get away with it because there's probably few Sun readers who've actually read Fallaci. I however, have read "Inshallah" (the story of 1982's Lebanese civil war as seen through the eyes of Italian peacekeepers). Margolis is blatantly misrepresenting the her work and hoping no one will notice.
$1:
Margolis:
In liberal Holland, it's cool to despise Muslims.
In liberal Holland, it's cool to despise Muslims.
Here he convienently ignores recent incidents that have led to the racial strife in that country. Incidents like the assassination of a gay Dutch politician named Pym Fortyn by a Muslim extremist, or widespread, racially motived gang rapes of Dutch women by Muslim youth.
$1:
Margolis:
In America, historian Bernard Lewis pumps out screeds on the evils of Islam. Daniel Pipes rails against all things Islamic.
In America, historian Bernard Lewis pumps out screeds on the evils of Islam. Daniel Pipes rails against all things Islamic.
Daniel Pipes and Bernard Lewis are both, unlike Margolis, accomplished, well-regarded, though controversial academics who would wipe the floor with Margolis in any debate. His deliberate mischaracterization of them is disgraceful.
$1:
Margolis:
One Danish cartoon of Prophet Mohammed shows him with a long, hooked nose, thick lips, a sinister, malevolent glare on his ugly, semitic face and a curved dagger in his hand.
Change the caption "Prophet Mohammed" to "Jew swine" and you have the double of Nazi anti-Semitic hate cartoons of the 1930s from the pages of Die Sturmer.
One Danish cartoon of Prophet Mohammed shows him with a long, hooked nose, thick lips, a sinister, malevolent glare on his ugly, semitic face and a curved dagger in his hand.
Change the caption "Prophet Mohammed" to "Jew swine" and you have the double of Nazi anti-Semitic hate cartoons of the 1930s from the pages of Die Sturmer.
Here he convienently ignores the thousands of anti-Jewish cartoons which circulate widely in the Arab world. Cartoons which depict Jews as "baby-eaters".
$1:
Margolis:
What many Europeans are saying through these cartoons is, "we hate Muslims. Make Europe Muslimfrei!" They want Muslims out, just as they did Jews in the 1930s.
What many Europeans are saying through these cartoons is, "we hate Muslims. Make Europe Muslimfrei!" They want Muslims out, just as they did Jews in the 1930s.
And what many Muslims are saying by protesting, burning churches and rioting in the streets is "We are in your country now. You must change your values and institutions to accomodate us."
The Jews weren't doing that did that in 1930's Europe.
$1:
Margolis:But while Muslims have been egregiously and gravely offended, far too many have reacted hysterically by rioting and burning embassies. The Prophet Mohammed and Islam don't need rioters and arsonists to defend them.
He's right there.
$1:
Margolis:
In an act of utter childishness, Iran's largest newspaper vows to run cartoons ridiculing the Holocaust, proving there is no sickness as contagious as stupidity.
In an act of utter childishness, Iran's largest newspaper vows to run cartoons ridiculing the Holocaust, proving there is no sickness as contagious as stupidity.
Iran's leaders didn't learn stupidity from the Danes. Let's recount, shall we? Their insane quest for a bomb so they can wipe Israel of the map, the Salman Rushdie affair, beating female Canadian journalist Kazemi to death, seizing the US embassy....
$1:
Margolis:
Muslims suffered 150 years of the most brutal European imperialism and exploitation. Millions of Muslims were slaughtered by European and Russian colonialists, though we seldom hear about this holocaust. Many of Europe's 20 million Muslims are third-class citizens. Muslims have a right to be angry.
Muslims suffered 150 years of the most brutal European imperialism and exploitation. Millions of Muslims were slaughtered by European and Russian colonialists, though we seldom hear about this holocaust. Many of Europe's 20 million Muslims are third-class citizens. Muslims have a right to be angry.
No they don't. First off, the terms "Millions slaughtered" and "Holocaust" are gratuitious exaggerations. Second, western Imperialism, in addition to some injustices, also provided them with roads, sewers, medicine, education, etc. Our civilization has also given Islam pretty much EVERYTHING else they use. The internet, cars, planes, semtex, etc.
$1:
Margolis:
But where were all these angry Muslims when 250,000 Bosnians were being massacred, and thousands of Muslim girls and women gang raped while mosques were blown up?
But where were all these angry Muslims when 250,000 Bosnians were being massacred, and thousands of Muslim girls and women gang raped while mosques were blown up?
He forgot to add, "While American, Canadian, British, German, DANISH, and French peacekeepers were protecting those same Bosnian Muslims.
Why no protests over Russia's genocide in Chechnya?
Because Russians don't care and they know it. They realize that there are millions of "useless idiots" in the west who will appease Islamic expansionism no matter how brazen they get.
Russians don't give a fuck if Putin sends in tanks to crush them so that takes all the fun out of Jihad.
$1:
Margolis:Or when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, and Australia annexed East Timor?
This comment's nuts. There are millions of Muslims actively opposed to the US efforts in Iran and Afghnistan. And his comment about Australia "annexing" East Timor is patently ridiculous.
Firstly, East Timor isn't a Muslim population, they're Christian and Hindu. And Australia led a peacekeeping effort there in 1999 to protect the population against Islamic oppression, the legacy of an illegal 1974 Indonesian invasion.
I remember Margolis writing in 1990 that the US coalition was biting off more than it could chew by taking on the Iraqi Army in Desert Storm and was going to get blooded bad.
What did that war last, a hundred hours? The only thing that slowed down the US armoured thrusts were logistical problems in dealing with all the Iraq prisoners!
Way to go Eric!
Avro, I hope you were posting that as an example of foolish opinion disguised as commentary and not something to support your point of view.
Motorcycleboy @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:35 pm
VitaminC VitaminC:
Here's a quote from a globe "online question period"
Nnaemeka Ekwosimba, Ottawa: Have all those (people) demonstrating, killing and burning buildings seen the cartoons or do they carry out their acts based on hearsay?
Doug Saunders: Hearsay, mostly. Our reporter Mark MacKinnon in Beiruit asked a number of anti-cartoon protesters what they believed had been printed. Most thought that every major English newspaper had printed them, and that they include images of Mohammed sodomizing people and appearing as a pig. In fact, no such images were among them, and no major English newspaper has printed them. So I'd say there are some pretty serious distortions out there in the Middle East — but this is what people now believe across the region
The whole thing is really interesting......you can read it here.
Nnaemeka Ekwosimba, Ottawa: Have all those (people) demonstrating, killing and burning buildings seen the cartoons or do they carry out their acts based on hearsay?
Doug Saunders: Hearsay, mostly. Our reporter Mark MacKinnon in Beiruit asked a number of anti-cartoon protesters what they believed had been printed. Most thought that every major English newspaper had printed them, and that they include images of Mohammed sodomizing people and appearing as a pig. In fact, no such images were among them, and no major English newspaper has printed them. So I'd say there are some pretty serious distortions out there in the Middle East — but this is what people now believe across the region
The whole thing is really interesting......you can read it here.
I've been saying that all along. Everybody in the world is discussing this but few mainstream news sources in the west are willing to publish the offending cartoons to let readers decide for themselves.
This is nothing less than a failure by the 5th Estate.
xerxes @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:04 pm
But whose 5th estate? Anyone with internet access can find the cartoons in a minute. The problem, as VC pointed out, is with the press in the countries where the riots are hgappening. There, the only catoons they're seeing are forgeries ginned up by extremists to aid their twisted causes.
themasta @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:47 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
Western Canadian magazine publishes Muhammad cartoons
Last Updated Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:00:28 EST
CBC News
The publisher of an Alberta-based political magazine is defending his decision to publish controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, saying Western media have been cowed into fear.
Ezra Levant of the Western Standard told CBC Newsworld that he published the dozen cartoons in Monday's edition because they are "the central fact in the largest news story of the month.
"I'm doing something completely normal. I'm publishing the centre of a controversy. That's what news magazines do."
The cartoons, published in September in Denmark and reprinted in other European papers in recent weeks, have outraged the Muslim world, setting off protests and boycotts of Danish products in several countries.
Islamic tradition prohibits any depiction of the Prophet, even a respectful one, on the grounds that it could promote idolatry.
The caricatures include a drawing of Muhammad wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb. Another shows him saying that paradise was running short of virgins for suicide bombers.
Most media in Canada and the United States have refused to publish the cartoons. But Levant dismissed the notion that the decision is based on respect for Islam, saying the real reason is "out of fear."
He said news organizations are more than willing to publish items that Christians find offensive because Christians only react by writing a letter to the editor.
"They don't bomb embassies and behead journalists," Levant said.
"Don't tell me the CBC respects religion. It's afraid of one religion."
The Western Standard has a circulation of 40,000 and publishes every two weeks.
Levant, who described the cartoons as "innocuous," said he would run cartoons about the Holocaust if Jews were burning embassies in response.
"We're not publishing them for their editorial merits. They're boring cartoons, they're bland. We're not running them because we share their views.
"We're running them because they're the central fact that caused radical Muslims around the world to riot."
Mohamed Elmasry, leader of the Canadian Islamic Congress, told the Globe and Mail that his organization will seek to have charges laid against the magazine under Canada's laws against distributing hate literature.
"It's unfortunate," said Elmasry, who had urged Levant not to republish the images. "I think he really goes against the will and the values of Canadians by this provocative action."
Link
Last Updated Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:00:28 EST
CBC News
The publisher of an Alberta-based political magazine is defending his decision to publish controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, saying Western media have been cowed into fear.
Ezra Levant of the Western Standard told CBC Newsworld that he published the dozen cartoons in Monday's edition because they are "the central fact in the largest news story of the month.
"I'm doing something completely normal. I'm publishing the centre of a controversy. That's what news magazines do."
The cartoons, published in September in Denmark and reprinted in other European papers in recent weeks, have outraged the Muslim world, setting off protests and boycotts of Danish products in several countries.
Islamic tradition prohibits any depiction of the Prophet, even a respectful one, on the grounds that it could promote idolatry.
The caricatures include a drawing of Muhammad wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb. Another shows him saying that paradise was running short of virgins for suicide bombers.
Most media in Canada and the United States have refused to publish the cartoons. But Levant dismissed the notion that the decision is based on respect for Islam, saying the real reason is "out of fear."
He said news organizations are more than willing to publish items that Christians find offensive because Christians only react by writing a letter to the editor.
"They don't bomb embassies and behead journalists," Levant said.
"Don't tell me the CBC respects religion. It's afraid of one religion."
The Western Standard has a circulation of 40,000 and publishes every two weeks.
Levant, who described the cartoons as "innocuous," said he would run cartoons about the Holocaust if Jews were burning embassies in response.
"We're not publishing them for their editorial merits. They're boring cartoons, they're bland. We're not running them because we share their views.
"We're running them because they're the central fact that caused radical Muslims around the world to riot."
Mohamed Elmasry, leader of the Canadian Islamic Congress, told the Globe and Mail that his organization will seek to have charges laid against the magazine under Canada's laws against distributing hate literature.
"It's unfortunate," said Elmasry, who had urged Levant not to republish the images. "I think he really goes against the will and the values of Canadians by this provocative action."
Link
"Hate Literature"? What the fuck is this guy smoking? Hate literature is something along the lines of "Asian people are swine and should be exterminated". Not shitty cartoons that are in poor taste. The problem is that Islam is a religion based on total adherence and submission. One voice, one movement, one thought. Obediance to the will of their God. Islam is the ultimate expression of mob mentality, there are no individuals, just a collective of drones. When you see all this violence, it is a product of Islam. Look at them pray if you don't believe me. Mob mentality, think about it.
kaetz @ Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:50 pm
i guess we (christians and muslims) think with different categories. it's senceless to compare jokes about JC to jokes about M just cause they mean deifferent to us nowadays. Political correctness and liberal values in many respects replaced the religious values in christian society, however this is totally different among the muslims. try not measure everyone by your own scale. of cause this doesn't justify burning the ambassies, but doesn't it sound sensible to you that if we can do smth to escape riots and violence we'd better do it (or in our case "not to do smth"). This tells a reasonable civilized person from a barbarian!