Riots in France spread into Belgium and Germany.

ziggy ziggy:

... I like to read both sides of the story. ...

Holy friggin' potatoes, Ziggy, how the hell did you end up on this website?

R=UP

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

ziggy ziggy:

... I like to read both sides of the story. ...

Holy friggin' potatoes, Ziggy, how the hell did you end up on this website?

R=UP

Dont know but I been here longer then you. :wink:

The Arabic word al-‘ayn (translated as the evil eye) refers to when a person harms another with his eye. It starts when the person likes a thing, then his evil feelings affect it, by means of his repeated looking at the object of his jealousy. Allaah commanded His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to seek refuge with Him from the envier, as He said (interpretation of the meaning):

“And from the evil of the envier when he envies”

[al-Falaq 113:5]

Everyone who puts the evil eye on another is envious, but not every envier puts the evil eye on another. The word haasid (envier) is more general in meaning than the word ‘aa’in (one who puts the evil eye on another), so seeking refuge with Allaah from the one who envies includes seeking refuge with Him from the one who puts the evil eye on another. The evil eye is like an arrow which comes from the soul of the one who envies and the one who puts the evil eye on another towards the one who is envied and on whom the evil eye is put; sometimes it hits him and sometimes it misses. If the target is exposed and unprotected, it will affect him, but if the target is cautious and armed, the arrow will have no effect and may even come back on the one who launched it.

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

IceOwl IceOwl:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Derby,
I know it's almost pointless to try to get it across to you that there are differences between Christians and Muslims because you just have it in your head that Christians and Christianity are the absolute worst things in the whole world.

The bias you accuse me of with Islam is the same thing I see in you with Christians.

You cite past incidents such as the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition as if they happened yesterday.

I cite things such as the bombings in Jordan that DID happen yesterday.

There are no Christians rioting in France.

There are no Christians ANYWHERE beheading Muslims.

There are no Christian suicide bombers. None.

There are no Christians demanding that their religious laws be imposed in Muslim countries.

Maybe you need to read this again.

Great. Western Civilization has skeletons in it's closet. Therefore it can't complain about the morality of anyone else.

I absolutely reject the argument.

If it were true that only the morally pure could critique the morality of anyone else, then we all ought to get machine guns and blast away at our neighbors because morality would be meaningless.

The essence of morality is that with everyone morally bankrupt, someone starts to do something decent. If that weren't the case, then decent activity could never begin. Some morally bankrupt person somewhere has to start.

That's just the first failure of the argument.

The second is that the failings of the past are not transmitted to the present. I am not responsible for the crusades. The people who were are gone for three-fourths of a millennium. If anyone has an issue with them, fine. If anyone wants to pin it on me, they can f' off.

Nor am I responsible for Srebrenica. Nor are you IceOwl, (much as I'd get a kick out of pinning it on you). If this article, (Having long ago lost our moral compass, how can we lecture the Islamic world?), were true, that would mean that you, IceOwl, are morally culpable for Srebrenica, just as much as if you were there. In fact, if the article were true, you, IceOwl, would be an anti-Muslim racist.

Don't see it? It's simple logic. The West is only legitimately seen as anti-Muslim. You, IceOwl, are a Westerner. Therefore, (given that all morality is infinitely transitive), You, IceOwl, are an anti-Muslim racist.

So how do you feel, pinned with that rap? You think it's fair, you being an an anti-Muslim racist?

Then maybe you should get your head out of your....oh, never mind. Just leave it in there.

If you understood his point you would realize that it was a direct response to bart's postings that "there are no Xtians......". There are. You are not responsible for the crusades or sebrenica..... but then again neither is iraq for 9/11.

ziggy ziggy:

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

IceOwl IceOwl:

ziggy ziggy:

Well then maybe you can show me where a highly respected Muslim leader has denounced all the terrorist attacks over the last ten years.

Given the population of Muslims you should be able to give me thousands of names of respected leaders that have denounced all the terror attacks.

Wow, holy shit, guess what was the first hit from Google on "muslim leaders denounce terror attacks" ?

Perhaps the reason you didn't know of any, is because you weren't even trying to find any. Here's some help.

Should have looked at the site more closely. It also says "We the Muslims of America condemn the horrific and evil terrorist attack that took place on September 11, 2001."

Great American muslims repudiate 9/11. Huge step forward for humanity.

Big step for humanity....and the bombings continue. Their words must have not carried much weight now did they?

I guess I need to repeat myself.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

IceOwl IceOwl:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Derby,
I know it's almost pointless to try to get it across to you that there are differences between Christians and Muslims because you just have it in your head that Christians and Christianity are the absolute worst things in the whole world.

The bias you accuse me of with Islam is the same thing I see in you with Christians.

You cite past incidents such as the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition as if they happened yesterday.

I cite things such as the bombings in Jordan that DID happen yesterday.

There are no Christians rioting in France.

There are no Christians ANYWHERE beheading Muslims.

There are no Christian suicide bombers. None.

There are no Christians demanding that their religious laws be imposed in Muslim countries.

Maybe you need to read this again.

Great. Western Civilization has skeletons in it's closet. Therefore it can't complain about the morality of anyone else.

I absolutely reject the argument.

If it were true that only the morally pure could critique the morality of anyone else, then we all ought to get machine guns and blast away at our neighbors because morality would be meaningless.

The essence of morality is that with everyone morally bankrupt, someone starts to do something decent. If that weren't the case, then decent activity could never begin. Some morally bankrupt person somewhere has to start.

That's just the first failure of the argument.

The second is that the failings of the past are not transmitted to the present. I am not responsible for the crusades. The people who were are gone for three-fourths of a millennium. If anyone has an issue with them, fine. If anyone wants to pin it on me, they can f' off.

Nor am I responsible for Srebrenica. Nor are you IceOwl, (much as I'd get a kick out of pinning it on you). If this article, (Having long ago lost our moral compass, how can we lecture the Islamic world?), were true, that would mean that you, IceOwl, are morally culpable for Srebrenica, just as much as if you were there. In fact, if the article were true, you, IceOwl, would be an anti-Muslim racist.

Don't see it? It's simple logic. The West is only legitimately seen as anti-Muslim. You, IceOwl, are a Westerner. Therefore, (given that all morality is infinitely transitive), You, IceOwl, are an anti-Muslim racist.

So how do you feel, pinned with that rap? You think it's fair, you being an an anti-Muslim racist?

Then maybe you should get your head out of your....oh, never mind. Just leave it in there.

If you understood his point you would realize that it was a direct response to bart's postings that "there are no Xtians......". There are. You are not responsible for the crusades or sebrenica..... but then again neither is iraq for 9/11.

I doubt that Robert Fisk wrote his article in response to Bart.

If you understood the points being made by the articles you link to, you wouldn't be caught in embarassing positions all the time.

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

IceOwl IceOwl:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Derby,
I know it's almost pointless to try to get it across to you that there are differences between Christians and Muslims because you just have it in your head that Christians and Christianity are the absolute worst things in the whole world.

The bias you accuse me of with Islam is the same thing I see in you with Christians.

You cite past incidents such as the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition as if they happened yesterday.

I cite things such as the bombings in Jordan that DID happen yesterday.

There are no Christians rioting in France.

There are no Christians ANYWHERE beheading Muslims.

There are no Christian suicide bombers. None.

There are no Christians demanding that their religious laws be imposed in Muslim countries.

Maybe you need to read this again.

Great. Western Civilization has skeletons in it's closet. Therefore it can't complain about the morality of anyone else.

I absolutely reject the argument.

If it were true that only the morally pure could critique the morality of anyone else, then we all ought to get machine guns and blast away at our neighbors because morality would be meaningless.

The essence of morality is that with everyone morally bankrupt, someone starts to do something decent. If that weren't the case, then decent activity could never begin. Some morally bankrupt person somewhere has to start.

That's just the first failure of the argument.

The second is that the failings of the past are not transmitted to the present. I am not responsible for the crusades. The people who were are gone for three-fourths of a millennium. If anyone has an issue with them, fine. If anyone wants to pin it on me, they can f' off.

Nor am I responsible for Srebrenica. Nor are you IceOwl, (much as I'd get a kick out of pinning it on you). If this article, (Having long ago lost our moral compass, how can we lecture the Islamic world?), were true, that would mean that you, IceOwl, are morally culpable for Srebrenica, just as much as if you were there. In fact, if the article were true, you, IceOwl, would be an anti-Muslim racist.

Don't see it? It's simple logic. The West is only legitimately seen as anti-Muslim. You, IceOwl, are a Westerner. Therefore, (given that all morality is infinitely transitive), You, IceOwl, are an anti-Muslim racist.

So how do you feel, pinned with that rap? You think it's fair, you being an an anti-Muslim racist?

Then maybe you should get your head out of your....oh, never mind. Just leave it in there.

If you understood his point you would realize that it was a direct response to bart's postings that "there are no Xtians......". There are. You are not responsible for the crusades or sebrenica..... but then again neither is iraq for 9/11.

I doubt that Robert Fisk wrote his article in response to Bart.

If you understood the points being made by the articles you link to, you wouldn't be caught in embarassing positions all the time.

Try again.

Don't see it? It's simple logic. The West is only legitimately seen as anti-Muslim. You, IceOwl, are a Westerner. Therefore, (given that all morality is infinitely transitive), You, IceOwl, are an anti-Muslim racist.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Try again.

Brilliantly compelling argument.

What a genius you must be in real life.

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Try again.

Brilliantly compelling argument.

What a genius you must be in real life.

Jamie, you are just a pill and not worth it. I'll wait till Bart comes back. At least he can debate intelligently wheras you ...... well we all know about that. :roll:

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone pulled the "racist" card.

$1:

Don't see it? It's simple logic. The West is only legitimately seen as anti-Muslim. You, IceOwl, are a Westerner. Therefore, (given that all morality is infinitely transitive), You, IceOwl, are an anti-Muslim racist.

Pretty soon someone will quote Hitler and the thread will be gone. :wink:

ziggy ziggy:

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone pulled the "racist" card.

$1:

Don't see it? It's simple logic. The West is only legitimately seen as anti-Muslim. You, IceOwl, are a Westerner. Therefore, (given that all morality is infinitely transitive), You, IceOwl, are an anti-Muslim racist.

Pretty soon someone will quote Hitler and the thread will be gone. :wink:

You don't seem to get that I was being sarcastic, Ziggy...

$1:

Derby,
I know it's almost pointless to try to get it across to you that there are differences between Christians and Muslims because you just have it in your head that Christians and Christianity are the absolute worst things in the whole world.

Xtians & muslims are the same. As for Xtianity being the worst thing in the world, it gets lumped in with all religion.

$1:

The bias you accuse me of with Islam is the same thing I see in you with Christians.

I don't start thread after thread attacking them. I don't condemn all Xtians for the actions of its fundie extremists. I attack the action faith, not wish death & destruction upon the people, a very distinct difference.

$1:

You cite past incidents such as the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition as if they happened yesterday.

I cite examples of faith based hate. You want current, lets try Iraq. Your soldiers might as well be fighting under the Xtian banner when they are sent in by bush. There isn't much difference then blaming all the insurgents on religious terro when the truth is that most are simply fighting against US occupation and using religion as a banner or rallying cry for support.

$1:

I cite things such as the bombings in Jordan that DID happen yesterday.

Lets cite the current US operations, same thing.

$1:

There are no Christians rioting in France.

There are no Christians ANYWHERE beheading Muslims.

There are no Christian suicide bombers. None.

Xtians don't need to riot, they have their religion front and centre. The paris riots have far less to do with religion then you think. It is no surprise that those rioting are in poor, marginalized areas and the muslims in the UK, Canada, Australia, and US are not rioting or causing trouble for any reason.

There are no muslim stealth bombers dropping cluster bombs on "suspect" houses. There are no muslim abrams tanks firing shells into houses occupied by women & children. There are not 200000 muslim troops occuping US soil.

$1:

There are no Christians demanding that their religious laws be imposed in Muslim countries.

Your right. They are too busy demanding it in every other country.

$1:

There are no Christians persecuting you.

There are no muslims persecuting me. I have not met any muslims who hate me for being an Atheist. I have met Xtians who do.

$1:

Your hate for Christianity is blinding in its intensity. As an atheist I find it odd that you condemn Christianity while all too often defending Islam and the followers of that religion who have told you personally that there is no place in their world for you.

I am not defending their faith, I am defending the people hold it yet hold none of the sterotypes that you hold. I have done the same to the muslims who say the same type of crap about the faith of others. I find it all to familiar that you have no problem attacking/ridiculing the faith of others but take offence when ots done to yours. Once again I will point out that your hate is towards the people and mine is towards the faith. A world of difference.

$1:

Derby,
Christians are NOT your enemies and Muslims are NOT your friends.

Any faith that holds the opinion that they and they alone have ownership of the one true faith is my enemy. The people who hold that faith are not necessarily my enemy, only if they try to inflict that upon me. By that count Xtians have been far and away the worst impact on my life. Xtians & muslims who hold those opinions are my enemy. Xtians & muslims who believe what they want and have no problem with others beliving whatever they want are my friends. You are casting a blanket on both groups ie "all Xtians good" "all muslims bad". I just don't see it that black & white.

The faith itself is my enemy, not the people.

$1:

I have no idea what more I can say to you on this matter that Muslims themselves have not already said to you in abundance.

If you cannot believe me, then believe them.

I do. Thats why I discussed this exact topic with the muslims at work. Trusting tabloid headlines or random internet accounts is sketchy at best.

$1:

Stop automatically going into denial everytime a Muslim puts the lie to their 'religion of peace' BS.

You're smarter than that.

It isn't denial. I have said it before that there may be peaceful muslims but it is not a religion of peace. I agree with that. That doesn't mean I don't recognize that there are a majority of muslims who are pefectly content to lead a peaceful muslim life. The same goes for Xtianity. Read the OT. Hell, even in the NT there are plenty of violent commands. Anyone trying to follow every scripture literally from either the bible or koran will lead a violent life. That doesn't mean there are not those who follow the spirit of the books rather then the letter of them.

Bart, I like you. Not everything you say and this is one area that we will propably always disgree. If I thought for a second that those fuckwit muslims saying "you must convert or else" would an actual majority then I would be the first to say let the nukes fly because that type of sentiment is basically saying that "if you don't kill us all it will never stop". I just don't believe it is a realistic & commonly held belief and the majority of even the people spouting this crap are doing so only as a direct result of all the hate that all the mid-east conflicts breed.

You think I am blind to the muslim threat but I think you are blind to the fact that if it were not for the tireless efforts to prevent it then the Xtian right would turn every city & town into nothing but churches & religious schools teaching nothing but the bible.

If you really feel that way about the muslims then I am surprised that you aren't the one leading the charge to say "lets get the hell out of the middle east and leave them all to rot".

Put it this way. If they have the sentiment "You must believe as we do" then the sunnis & shiites will never ever be at peace because they differ on fundemental beliefs and neither will ever back down. They will always fight against each other. Why get involved in their war then? If that truly is their belief then they will never ever be able to stop fighting each other usless we give them a more pressing & common enemy, which is exactly what the US is doing don't you think?