Thank God for Christianity!
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Tman1 @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:30 pm
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
Tman1 Tman1:
Come again? The pagan Romans never enjoyed the same success as Christians??? What about Victories over Carthage in the Punic wars? How about Caesars victories in Gaul? How about victories over the Macedonians? How about the victories in Spain? Britian? How about ruling over most of Europe and Asia Minor? Never enjoyed the same success my ass. What enjoyment of success has the Christians Roman Empire accomplished..careful now.
What "enjoyment of success has the Christians Romans Empire accomplished"? How about being the bedrock of a culture that spread across Europe, and eventually the world. A culture that gave the world, oh, let's see;
Democratic government
Was largely written by secular, diest, and atheist philosophers, as well as having a fair amount of grounding in philosophies which exists centuries before christ. In fact at the time of the signing of the Declaration of Independence less then 10% of americans belonged to a congregation.
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The Industrial Revolution
The Romans did this did they? Were they somehow responsible for it? No
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The Market Economy
Adam Smith was no roman
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The Magna Carta
Because we all know nobles protecting their property wouldn't have happened without christianity... no wait, thats human nature...
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The Declaration of Independence
Jefferson was a christian, if "I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." can be any indication
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The Airplane
The Computer
Hollywood Movies
The Cell Phone
Internet Porn
DVD Porn
The Stealth Fighter
Video Games
The Computer
Hollywood Movies
The Cell Phone
Internet Porn
DVD Porn
The Stealth Fighter
Video Games
Could not occur without algebra, in fact everything in the past century of so is going to have to fall on the same thing... Islam has more claim to all of that then the Romans.
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Common Law
Because we know that pagans didn't have laws...
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wrestling
Competitive sports in general are long before the time of Christianity. The Olympics for example...
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Any kind of Porn
Porn has existed long before jesus. The Romans had it before they had emperors.
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All You Can Eat Buffets
Romans had those before Jesus too.
Christianity has genuinely improved numerous peoples lives, and has helped the world for it. To attempt however to claim the superiority of your religion is pointless, arrogant, and horribly misinformed.
Thematic: Nice post.
Motorcycleboy @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:33 pm
O.K, I was going to ignore Thematic Device because I'm sick of Christian bashing nonsense and I don't think it usually warrants a response. But I guess I'll have to rise to the challenge.
The Crusades, far from being a Christian atrocity, were the West's response to Islamic Expansionism into the holy lands and beyond. True, they had their share of excesses, but war back then was brutal and cruel. Both sides committed atrocities. That's how it was done back then.
Ireland has had very little to do with religion and everything to do with the tribal nature of society in the British Isles. Anyone whose ever spent any time in the UK can tell you they have a tendency to fight and hate people from not just other religions, but even from the next village over. If you doubt me, ask some of the Brits on this site.
Franco may have used the church to achieve his ends, but his crimes were nothing compared to the real monsters of his era. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot. All these monsters committed genocide on a massive scale. And these monsters had no religious affiliation, and were quite hostile to Christianity.
Witch trials, yeah, I guess. But pretty much every transgression in those days resulted in the death penalty or torture. That had little to do with the church. In fact it was the church that often sought clemency for those accused of stealing bread, cattle feed, etc.
Anything else?
Tman1 @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:33 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
Tman1 Tman1:
Oh wait, you said all those modern new age technology was from The Christian ROMAN Empire and now its from the Germanic tribes. Was this BEFORE or AFTER? hmmmm your grasp on History is truly truly amazing. Teach me more from your Sunday School. 
I said no such thing. I pointed out that Christianity is the basic foundation of western civilization and that the west invented pretty much everything good. You went off about the Germanic Tribes. I made an offhand point that they ended up subscribing to Chrisitanity as well.
Sorry if that wasn't clear for you.
No, you did say such a thing. You said the Christian Roman Empire(do you even know what it actually was and stood for?) enjoyed that success. Now why you chose to go the modern age technology route instead of what I thought was purely Historical reasoning I don't know. Your missing one key ingredient in History....the Middle Ages.
DerbyX @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:34 pm
$1:
I said no such thing. I pointed out that Christianity is the basic foundation of western civilization and that the west invented pretty much everything good. You went off about the Germanic Tribes. I made an offhand point that they ended up subscribing to Chrisitanity as well.
You started a thread thanking god for Xtianity (tactically linking both) about how every modern western invention owes its life directly to Xtianity. You have been severly trounced in that regard. Walk away. Walk away before we all sober up and really let you have it.
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:38 pm
"Christianity has as foul of a history as every other major religion in the world. To try and claim a moral superiority with a religion, with any religion is foolish as they all have they're dark spots and they are by no means minor"
Buddhism seems to have kept its nose pretty clean and it's a fairly major religion.
Motorcycleboy @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:43 pm
Hey Thematic Device, did I say Adam Smith was Roman? No. But he and his ideas were products of western civilization. Same goes for the industrial revolution. And pretty much everything else you said.
My point again, is, when the Roman Empire crumbled, it emerged as the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire, and Christianity, for all it's faults, was the foundation for the entire system of thought and culture we in the west now enjoy. Without it, Europe would probably have degenerated into a group of warring, bickering tribes and we'd still be mired in the Dark Ages.
DerbyX @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:43 pm
$1:
"Christianity has as foul of a history as every other major religion in the world. To try and claim a moral superiority with a religion, with any religion is foolish as they all have they're dark spots and they are by no means minor"
Buddhism seems to have kept its nose pretty clean and it's a fairly major religion.
Buddhism seems to have kept its nose pretty clean and it's a fairly major religion.
Funny, the muslims I work with consider Buddhism as a "set of beliefs" and not a religion and the Xtians all think they are going to hell.
Motorcycleboy @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:48 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
Funny, the muslims I work with consider Buddhism as a "set of beliefs" and not a religion and the Xtians all think they are going to hell.
Derby, I doubt very much that you know any Christians, let along work with them. You're just propogating the stereotype of the cowboy hat wearing, bible thumping, Jerry Falwell type that the Michael Moore set love to put out there.
Find me one quote from Pope John Paul, Benedict, or the Archbishop of Canterbury that says "all Muslims/Buddists are going to hell."
Tman1 @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:48 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
Hey Thematic Device, did I say Adam Smith was Roman? No. But he and his ideas were products of western civilization. Same goes for the industrial revolution. And pretty much everything else you said.
My point again, is, when the Roman Empire crumbled, it emerged as the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire, and Christianity, for all it's faults, was the foundation for the entire system of thought and culture we in the west now enjoy. Without it, Europe would probably have degenerated into a group of warring, bickering tribes and we'd still be mired in the Dark Ages.
My point again, is, when the Roman Empire crumbled, it emerged as the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire, and Christianity, for all it's faults, was the foundation for the entire system of thought and culture we in the west now enjoy. Without it, Europe would probably have degenerated into a group of warring, bickering tribes and we'd still be mired in the Dark Ages.
Nope, your grasp on History is still amazing to say the least. Are you forgetting the Byzantine Empire? aka Eastern Roman Empire? They still called themselves the remnants of the Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire was a political conglomerate created from the Treaty of Verdun in 843 BCE......WOW, thats over 400 years after the fall of Rome by a German King Odoacer...... but you said when the Roman Empire crumbled it magically turned into the Holy Roman Empire..amazing.
Who do you think destroyed the Western Roman Empire....Careful now.
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:48 pm
Buddhist monk here tells me that you can be a Christian, Jew or Muslim and still be a Buddhist. More I talk to him, the more I want to know about there belifs.
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:51 pm
"Find me one quote from Pope John Paul, Benedict, or the Archbishop of Canterbury that says "all Muslims/Hindus are going to hell."
Sorry, but according to the Catholic Church, even non catholic Christians are destined for hell, as they believe that only the Catholic Church holds the key to salvation.
Motorcycleboy @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:52 pm
Tman1 Tman1:
Nope, your grasp on History is still amazing to say the least. Are you forgetting the Byzantine Empire? aka Eastern Roman Empire? They still called themselves the remnants of the Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire was a political conglomerate created from the Treaty of Verdun in 843 BCE......WOW, thats over 400 years after the fall of Rome by a German King Odoacer...... but you said when the Roman Empire crumbled it magically turned into the Holy Roman Empire..amazing.
Who do you think destroyed the Western Roman Empire....Careful now.
Who do you think destroyed the Western Roman Empire....Careful now.
Yes, of course, you're right. There never was a replacement for the Roman Empire. Europe just became a group of divergent states sharing neither culture, religion, or history.
Tman1 @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:54 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
Tman1 Tman1:
Nope, your grasp on History is still amazing to say the least. Are you forgetting the Byzantine Empire? aka Eastern Roman Empire? They still called themselves the remnants of the Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire was a political conglomerate created from the Treaty of Verdun in 843 BCE......WOW, thats over 400 years after the fall of Rome by a German King Odoacer...... but you said when the Roman Empire crumbled it magically turned into the Holy Roman Empire..amazing.
Who do you think destroyed the Western Roman Empire....Careful now.
Who do you think destroyed the Western Roman Empire....Careful now.
Yes, of course, you're right. There never was a replacement for the Roman Empire. Europe just became a group of divergent states sharing neither culture, religion, or history.
Hmm sarcasm because you don't know anything. Nice. Your objecting to recorded History to fit your own conceptions? Your saying all those points I made NEVER happend? *sniff* something smells like hypocrisy.
Motorcycleboy @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:55 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
"Find me one quote from Pope John Paul, Benedict, or the Archbishop of Canterbury that says "all Muslims/Hindus are going to hell."
Sorry, but according to the Catholic Church, even non catholic Christians are destined for hell, as they believe that only the Catholic Church holds the key to salvation.
Sorry, but according to the Catholic Church, even non catholic Christians are destined for hell, as they believe that only the Catholic Church holds the key to salvation.
Really? Why did Pope John Paul reach out to the Muslim community last year then? Why did he condemn the US war in Iraq and it's civillian death toll if those Muslims were all destined for hell anyway?
DerbyX @ Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:55 pm
$1:
Derby, I doubt very much that you know any Christians, let along work with them. You're just propogating the stereotype of the cowboy hat wearing, bible thumping, Jerry Falwell type that the Michael Moore set love to put out there.
Find me one quote from Pope John Paul, Benedict, or the Archbishop of Canterbury that says "all Muslims/Buddists are going to hell."
Find me one quote from Pope John Paul, Benedict, or the Archbishop of Canterbury that says "all Muslims/Buddists are going to hell."
Try many of my family are. Try Vitellio, who upon learning I as an Atheist attempted to convert me (were gold now though).
Are you telling me that you have never heard them say that you must accept jesus christ as the lord to be saved, a basic Xtian tennent? I will destroy that staement when I'm better suited toi respond until then I suggest a little research.
I am willing to bet you don't actually know the bible.
If you have then take the quiz: http://exchristian.net/3/
Good luck!
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