US Marines face heat for executing insurgent sympathizers
xerxes @ Wed May 31, 2006 12:21 pm
Really? the world probably wouldn't have found out about My Lai if it hadn't been for Sy Hersh. And don't be so sure justice will be served. All of the people accused of the massacre of My Lai were aquitted.
IcedCap @ Wed May 31, 2006 12:37 pm
Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:
The biggest problem in this whole mess is how fast the MSM is ready to jump on the bandwagon and label these Marines as Murderers without a single charged being filed against anyone..
[/b]
[/b]
Sounds familiar...
Johnny_Utah @ Wed May 31, 2006 12:45 pm
xerxes xerxes:
Really? the world probably wouldn't have found out about My Lai if it hadn't been for Sy Hersh. And don't be so sure justice will be served. All of the people accused of the massacre of My Lai were aquitted.
Comparing the MSM to the Media in the days of the Vietnam War doesn't cut it as they had standards back then..
This is the Age of 24 Hour News, where jumping on the bandwagon for the MSM is more important then the real facts..
These leaks are just leaks not proven facts as the Military hasn't concluded their investigation. The leaks only present one side of the story, the Military is investigating the events at Haditha. The Marines are claiming they were under small arms fire. A large Fire Fight between U.S. Forces and Insurgents took place less then a mile away from where the Iraqi civilians were killed..
It doesn't excuse what might have happen, but to proclaim these Marines are guilty without a single charge being filed without anyone being found guilty is just as wrong..
Rushes to Judgement end up causing more harm, the Military is investigating events in Haditha, if these Marines committed crimes justice should be served to them that includes anyone who tried to cover this up..
Or does all that not matter because it's U.S. Marines who are being accused and Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to them?
dunker @ Wed May 31, 2006 12:46 pm
USA-AOK USA-AOK:
IcedCap IcedCap:
Yes, in the twisted mindset of Al-Qaeda and indeed many extreme anti-capitalist/globalists the 911 dead weren't innocent victims but complicit in US misdeeds. Seems to me USA-AOK is pretty much saying teh same thing about Iraqi civilians.
There is no such thing as a "US misdeed."
Might makes right.
Now that is anal retentive..I hope you never go into politics
Newfy @ Wed May 31, 2006 12:52 pm
Most of us have just grown bored of USA AOKs rants. He's not really worth the effort.
DerbyX @ Wed May 31, 2006 1:56 pm
Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:
xerxes xerxes:
Really? the world probably wouldn't have found out about My Lai if it hadn't been for Sy Hersh. And don't be so sure justice will be served. All of the people accused of the massacre of My Lai were aquitted.
Comparing the MSM to the Media in the days of the Vietnam War doesn't cut it as they had standards back then..
This is the Age of 24 Hour News, where jumping on the bandwagon for the MSM is more important then the real facts..
These leaks are just leaks not proven facts as the Military hasn't concluded their investigation. The leaks only present one side of the story, the Military is investigating the events at Haditha. The Marines are claiming they were under small arms fire. A large Fire Fight between U.S. Forces and Insurgents took place less then a mile away from where the Iraqi civilians were killed..
It doesn't excuse what might have happen, but to proclaim these Marines are guilty without a single charge being filed without anyone being found guilty is just as wrong..
Rushes to Judgement end up causing more harm, the Military is investigating events in Haditha, if these Marines committed crimes justice should be served to them that includes anyone who tried to cover this up..
Or does all that not matter because it's U.S. Marines who are being accused and Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to them?
How many in gitmo have been charged? Meanwhile the evidence is being taking seriously by marine brass and the word coming from them is thats its only a matter of time.
Thematic-Device @ Wed May 31, 2006 3:43 pm
Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:
Murtha, Murtha, Murtha..
Jack Murtha has become nothing more then a mouth piece for the Anti-War MSM running from one MSM show to another trashing the Marines and the U.S. Military as a whole. I've read on other forums where oneside says Murtha's 37 years as a Marine means nothing anymore since he's stabbed them in the back while the other side says it means everything, my opinion is he was a Marine then not now..
Jack Murtha has become nothing more then a mouth piece for the Anti-War MSM running from one MSM show to another trashing the Marines and the U.S. Military as a whole. I've read on other forums where oneside says Murtha's 37 years as a Marine means nothing anymore since he's stabbed them in the back while the other side says it means everything, my opinion is he was a Marine then not now..
So he's a marine only as long as he agrees with you then? A man does not stab anyone in the back when he calls a murderer for what he is. He has no bonds of loyalty to them if they've committed such acts. No one does.
Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:
[b]The Evidence has so far only come from the MSM based on speculation, they are so fast to jump the gun without knowing all the facts..
The evidence has come from eye-witness acounts and coroners reports which have been put on the news. Multiple gunshot wounds is not speculation, nor are the eyewitness accounts of the US marines causing them.
$1:
Until there's been charges filed and those Marines have been convicted in a Military Court they are innocent until proven guilty no matter what Jack Murtha says..
This is not a court and no member here will be asked to sit on a jury. They are not being denied any of their rights to a fair trial, so kindly debate the case, not some concept of rights which has no application here.
You're confusing discussion, where any of us may decide whether or not it happened, and a court room, where all parties except the defense and the prosecution must enter impartial.
Johnny_Utah @ Wed May 31, 2006 4:05 pm
I only said my personal opinion of Murtha being a Marine was he was one then not now. I don't agree with him..
The evidence has yet to be proven factual it's based on leaks. What happen to benefit of the doubt? Guess that doesn't apply to U.S. Military/Marines on this thread..
I know it's not a court duh! I'm debating the case problem is a few don't like my answers because it doesn't fit their Anti-American views? Feel free to label these Marines as War Criminals or whatever you like based on leaks until all the facts are known..
I'm not denying this could have happen but I'm not ready to say their War Criminals, Killers whatever without knowing all the facts and the facts so far are only based on leaks. Real Facts will come from the United States Military rather then the MSM..
This so much reminds me of Wannabe Ranger Jesse Macbeth and how fast people on the Internet believed his story and it was proven to be a fraud..
Thematic-Device @ Wed May 31, 2006 4:16 pm
Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:
I only said my personal opinion of Murtha being a Marine was he was one then not now. I don't agree with him..
To me that simply sounds as if respect for a persons service is contingent on them agreeing with you.
$1:
The evidence has yet to be proven factual it's based on leaks. What happen to benefit of the doubt? Guess that doesn't apply to U.S. Military/Marines on here..
The evidence is not based on leaks, the reporters went out and interviewed the people who had seen their families gunned down in front of them.
$1:
I know it's not a court duh! I'm debating the case problem is a few don't like my answers because it doesn't fit their Anti-American views? Feel free to label these Marines as War Criminals based on leaks all you like until all the facts are known because if it turns out not to be 100% true you will have egg on you're face not I
The preliminary trial seems to agree with me, and you're right, if I in the end turn out to be wrong. But, thats only if I'm wrong, if I'm right, then you would have simply been ignoring the facts in order to try and appear impartial. But impartiality is not always to be desired.
$1:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A preliminary military inquiry found evidence that U.S. Marines killed two dozen Iraqi civilians in an unprovoked attack in November, contradicting the troops' account, U.S. officials said on Wednesday.
President George W. Bush said he was troubled by news stories on the November 19 killings of men, women and children in the town of Haditha, and a general at the Pentagon said the incident could complicate the job for the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.
"Allegations such as this, regardless of how they are borne out by the facts, can have an effect on the ability of U.S. forces to continue to operate," Army Brig. Gen. Carter Ham, deputy director for regional operations for the military's Joint Staff, told a Pentagon briefing.
Forensic data from corpses showed victims with bullet wounds, despite earlier statements by Marines that civilians were killed by a roadside bomb that also claimed the life of a Marine from El Paso, Texas, Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, a defense official said.
"The forensics painted a different story than what the Marines had said," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter.
President George W. Bush said he was troubled by news stories on the November 19 killings of men, women and children in the town of Haditha, and a general at the Pentagon said the incident could complicate the job for the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.
"Allegations such as this, regardless of how they are borne out by the facts, can have an effect on the ability of U.S. forces to continue to operate," Army Brig. Gen. Carter Ham, deputy director for regional operations for the military's Joint Staff, told a Pentagon briefing.
Forensic data from corpses showed victims with bullet wounds, despite earlier statements by Marines that civilians were killed by a roadside bomb that also claimed the life of a Marine from El Paso, Texas, Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, a defense official said.
"The forensics painted a different story than what the Marines had said," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsAr ... ived=False
Johnny_Utah @ Wed May 31, 2006 4:28 pm
It's better to wait until all the facts are in from the Military's Investigation, this is something the MSM doesn't understand as there could even be more facts of what happen..
I'm keeping an open mind waiting for all the facts from the Military's Invesigation, and if it proves this did happen then as I said those Marines who had a part in this should face the full extent of Military Justice, that includes those who were in the coverup..
This time if the coverup goes to the top, those at the top who took part in the coverup should face Justice unlike what happen in the Abu Ghraib Scandal where those at the Top got off while privates etc took the fall..
If there is a Military Trial it should take place in Iraq..
Donny_Brasco @ Wed May 31, 2006 6:58 pm
With all due respect for the dead, this is a good thing.
It makes the rest of the world unite against the "Might is Right" policies.
Just like these murderers we need guys like AOK, Hawker and Utah to make us realize how dangerous greed, war and selfishness are.
So Bravo to AOK for provoking this, giving me some perspective and helping me to see eye to eye with folks I've never agreed with before.
Johnny_Utah @ Wed May 31, 2006 7:16 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Just like these murderers we need guys like AOK, Hawker and Utah to make us realize how dangerous greed, war and selfishness are.
Nice cheap shot..
USA-AOK @ Wed May 31, 2006 11:30 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Just like these murderers we need guys like AOK, Hawker and Utah to make us realize how dangerous greed, war and selfishness are.
Deny it all you want, but greed, war, and selfishness are what sustain the modern western lifestyle we all enjoy.
Bodah @ Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:26 pm
Its very troubling to hear this type of news, I hope the people that did this are punished.
GD_ @ Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 pm
This is just one more incident (most of which we never hear about) that is making it impossible for the soldiers to win the 'hearts and minds' of the Iraqi people.
What's sad, is that I'm sure there are some soldiers that are sincerely trying to help Iraq and there job is becoming impossible