was 911 an inside job?
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borg @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:31 pm
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
borg borg:
Not sure why you do it in this post?
I do it because I think your ideas are crap and highly offensive, and an excellent way to express my contempt for your position is to compare it to other profoundly ignorant beliefs.
(That's assuming you want a straight answer to your query.)
straight is best.
and argument is more effective then insult.
If I could get a strait answer as to how 19 arabs flew around for 102 minutes with no military responce, and why those responsible for this failure got promoted I would be happy.
not to mention why the pentagon missle defence system failed?
Or why the 'pancake' collapses produced pyroclastic flow, or how they were even possible given the 47 massive steel beams running up the core of the towers.
perhaps insult is your best tactic...
Jaime_Souviens @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:00 pm
borg borg:
If I could get a strait answer as to how 19 arabs flew around for 102 minutes with no military responce, and why those responsible for this failure got promoted I would be happy.
They were hiding on the grassy knoll.
borg borg:
not to mention why the pentagon missle defence system failed?[
Accidently loaded with ammo from a M91/38 Mannlicher-Carcano.
borg borg:
Or why the 'pancake' collapses produced pyroclastic flow, or how they were even possible given the 47 massive steel beams running up the core of the towers.
They used the same architect as the Texas Book Depository.
PluggyRug @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:05 pm
Resistance is futile.
Heres a call to you and yours
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=48740
http://www.randi.org/jr/060702.html
borg @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:27 pm
how about something more relevent like NIST critical analysis.
http://911review.com/coverup/nist.html
http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/nistevasion.html
It is obvious that no good answers have been provided to the important questions, beyond childish attempts at ridicule.
ziggy @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:02 pm
borg borg:
how about something more relevent like NIST critical analysis.
http://911review.com/coverup/nist.html
http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/nistevasion.html
It is obvious that no good answers have been provided to the important questions, beyond childish attempts at ridicule.
http://911review.com/coverup/nist.html
http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/nistevasion.html
It is obvious that no good answers have been provided to the important questions, beyond childish attempts at ridicule.
All your conspiracy's have been debunked,myth busters would have a hay day with you. Your worse then the guys that insist Canucks burnt down the "White house".
grainfedprairieboy @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:16 pm
ziggy ziggy:
All your conspiracy's have been debunked,myth busters would have a hay day with you. Your worse then the guys that insist Canucks burnt down the "White house".
In reference to structural engineer studies, Int predicted the first first attack and maintained it would happen again. First attack tried to make tower collapse but idiot parked car in wrong spot. Of course they are going to study building knowing it was going to happen again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 516469.stm
Istanbul @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:26 pm
The earth is flat. Doofuss says so so it must be so.
There were no massive steel beams in the middle. More box like. The steel beams were not adequately protected by concrete and tons of burning fuel melted them.
The upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors squashing them.
But time to move on.
How did the CIA get 11 million Israelis to masquerade as Arabs and vote in Iraq?
Stay tuned.
borg @ Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:05 am
"Once upon a time Conspiracy Theorists insisted the world was round."
"It looks like the Sand People did this, all right. Look, there's gaffi sticks, bantha tracks. It's just...I never heard of them hitting anything this big before."
"They didn't, but we are meant to think they did. And these blast points, too accurate for Sand People. Only Imperial storm troopers are so precise."
-- Star Wars
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
-- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda
borg @ Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:19 am
Istanbul Istanbul:
The earth is flat. Doofuss says so so it must be so.
There were no massive steel beams in the middle. More box like. The steel beams were not adequately protected by concrete and tons of burning fuel melted them.
The upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors squashing them.
But time to move on.
How did the CIA get 11 million Israelis to masquerade as Arabs and vote in Iraq?
Stay tuned.
There were no massive steel beams in the middle. More box like. The steel beams were not adequately protected by concrete and tons of burning fuel melted them.
The upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors squashing them.
But time to move on.
How did the CIA get 11 million Israelis to masquerade as Arabs and vote in Iraq?
Stay tuned.
looks alot like massive steel beams to me.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidenc ... cons1.html
Not to mention the south tower was hit in a way that most of the jet fuel exploded outside the building and the fires were producing dark smoke (not burning at max temp.) THen to top it all off steel does not melt any where near hydrocarbon fire temperatures. So all that steel just collapsed at the speed of gravity and created all that phyroclastic flow do to fires, NOT.
As for the elections I will be happy if peace comes to Iraq. Then the 80% majority who want the US and their permanent military bases to leave might get their wish. That would be democracy, but it ain't gonna happen because this attack is about all that oil that we need to to 'peak oil.' 'Project for the new american century' and 'rebuilding americas defences' says so. You know the guys in charge of america now...
PostManPat @ Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:53 am
Very intresting indeed...Could it of happened, who knows. It would be possible. Theres too many pieces of the puzzle to put it all together and its been too long since it happened. But what really put me off was after looking at the websites and links there, were they not trying to sell books and videos?
From looking at whats happened afterwards, including the lack of intelligence. Where were the weapons of mass destrucion, they sure found some nice oil!? The recent US Government Spying On Its Own Citizens!? All of this to fight terrorism? Its a nice excuse to let them do anything they want. Its hard to believe the US government would go this far though. I personally think they wouldn't, but if they did i hope something is done about it.
PluggyRug @ Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:09 pm
$1:
THen to top it all off steel does not melt any where near hydrocarbon fire temperatures. So all that steel just collapsed at the speed of gravity and created all that phyroclastic flow do to fires, NOT.
Well I beg to differ with your reasoning.
Below is an excerpt from a engineering study on steel/temp failure
When these conditions are repeated in full-scale member tests, e.g. unprotected axially loaded columns, then failure does indeed occur at 550oC. But if a member is not uniformly heated then, when the hotter part of the section reaches its limiting temperature, it will yield plastically and transfer load to cooler regions of the section, which will still act elastically. As the temperature rises further more load is transferred from the hot region by plastic yielding until eventually the load in the cool regions becomes so high that they too becomes plastic and the member fails.
Temp of 550° to 700° Celsius will cause structural steel to plasticize, and then the 'London Bridge is Falling Down'.
Now, burning temperature of hydrocarbons.
Mapp Gas 2927° Celsius
Acetylene 3087° "
Propane 2526° "
Natural Gas 2537° "
Propylene 2867° "
Kerosene 1926° "
Any one of these hydrocarbons would have caused the steel to plasticize and eventually collapse.
ziggy @ Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:11 pm
borg borg:
Istanbul Istanbul:
The earth is flat. Doofuss says so so it must be so.
There were no massive steel beams in the middle. More box like. The steel beams were not adequately protected by concrete and tons of burning fuel melted them.
The upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors squashing them.
But time to move on.
How did the CIA get 11 million Israelis to masquerade as Arabs and vote in Iraq?
Stay tuned.
There were no massive steel beams in the middle. More box like. The steel beams were not adequately protected by concrete and tons of burning fuel melted them.
The upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors squashing them.
But time to move on.
How did the CIA get 11 million Israelis to masquerade as Arabs and vote in Iraq?
Stay tuned.
looks alot like massive steel beams to me.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidenc ... cons1.html
Not to mention the south tower was hit in a way that most of the jet fuel exploded outside the building and the fires were producing dark smoke (not burning at max temp.) THen to top it all off steel does not melt any where near hydrocarbon fire temperatures. So all that steel just collapsed at the speed of gravity and created all that phyroclastic flow do to fires, NOT.
As for the elections I will be happy if peace comes to Iraq. Then the 80% majority who want the US and their permanent military bases to leave might get their wish. That would be democracy, but it ain't gonna happen because this attack is about all that oil that we need to to 'peak oil.' 'Project for the new american century' and 'rebuilding americas defences' says so. You know the guys in charge of america now...
$1:
An effective tool for reinforcing the loony conspiricism meme is the introduction of theories that that have no basis in evidence, such as the idea that no planes hit the towers. The association of these ideas with the careful research of investigators in the 9/11 Truth Movement stands to set back the cause of awakening the larger public to the facts of the attack.
borg @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:53 am
ziggy ziggy:
borg borg:
Istanbul Istanbul:
The earth is flat. Doofuss says so so it must be so.
There were no massive steel beams in the middle. More box like. The steel beams were not adequately protected by concrete and tons of burning fuel melted them.
The upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors squashing them.
But time to move on.
How did the CIA get 11 million Israelis to masquerade as Arabs and vote in Iraq?
Stay tuned.
There were no massive steel beams in the middle. More box like. The steel beams were not adequately protected by concrete and tons of burning fuel melted them.
The upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors squashing them.
But time to move on.
How did the CIA get 11 million Israelis to masquerade as Arabs and vote in Iraq?
Stay tuned.
looks alot like massive steel beams to me.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidenc ... cons1.html
Not to mention the south tower was hit in a way that most of the jet fuel exploded outside the building and the fires were producing dark smoke (not burning at max temp.) THen to top it all off steel does not melt any where near hydrocarbon fire temperatures. So all that steel just collapsed at the speed of gravity and created all that phyroclastic flow do to fires, NOT.
As for the elections I will be happy if peace comes to Iraq. Then the 80% majority who want the US and their permanent military bases to leave might get their wish. That would be democracy, but it ain't gonna happen because this attack is about all that oil that we need to to 'peak oil.' 'Project for the new american century' and 'rebuilding americas defences' says so. You know the guys in charge of america now...
$1:
An effective tool for reinforcing the loony conspiricism meme is the introduction of theories that that have no basis in evidence, such as the idea that no planes hit the towers. The association of these ideas with the careful research of investigators in the 9/11 Truth Movement stands to set back the cause of awakening the larger public to the facts of the attack.
I take that to mean that there are wacked theories out there. Honest 911 researchers need to distance themselves from the wacked. I agree. I also think some honest researchers have made mistakes.
If 911 is an inside job then disinformation and the attempt to discredit legit research would be a priority for the perps. And yes planes did hit the WTC towers:(
an interesting none wacked link about the WTC investigations
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_ ... _ID=131225
BartSimpson @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:19 am
1) The steel in the WTC did not need to melt to fail. It just needed to be hot enough to lose integrity under a load. The original design of the towers used asbestos for fireproofing and a study by Failure Analysis demonstrated that asbestos would have enabled the towers to stand until the fuels (jet fuel, furniture, paper, etc.) were exhausted.
2) Most of the jet fuel burned explosively and the outward pressure of those explosions was expressed outside of the building...something to be expected unless you expect an office building to contain the explosive force of several tons of fuel. Some of that fuel was reported to have exploded in the lobbies of both towers after falling down the elevator shafts and several people in the lobbies were severely burned as a result.
3) Most of the aircraft in all four circumstances (on 9/11) were consumed by flame. Aluminum and magnesium do not fare well in fires and as airframes are made of both materials then they do not fare well. Look at any picture of a burnt airliner and there is very little left after the fire is done with it. The lack of wreckage at all four crash sites is conducive with what is to be expected with any other crash site.
4) The whole Larry Silverstein-Jewish Conspiracy thing just makes me sick. It is patently absurd that Silverstein would orchestrate this as he is obligated to pay the PA $60 million per month rent on the WTC even though it has not turned a dollar since 2001.
5) The whole bloody thing was on film! What's to discuss?
borg @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:45 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
1) The steel in the WTC did not need to melt to fail. It just needed to be hot enough to lose integrity under a load. The original design of the towers used asbestos for fireproofing and a study by Failure Analysis demonstrated that asbestos would have enabled the towers to stand until the fuels (jet fuel, furniture, paper, etc.) were exhausted.
2) Most of the jet fuel burned explosively and the outward pressure of those explosions was expressed outside of the building...something to be expected unless you expect an office building to contain the explosive force of several tons of fuel. Some of that fuel was reported to have exploded in the lobbies of both towers after falling down the elevator shafts and several people in the lobbies were severely burned as a result.
3) Most of the aircraft in all four circumstances (on 9/11) were consumed by flame. Aluminum and magnesium do not fare well in fires and as airframes are made of both materials then they do not fare well. Look at any picture of a burnt airliner and there is very little left after the fire is done with it. The lack of wreckage at all four crash sites is conducive with what is to be expected with any other crash site.
4) The whole Larry Silverstein-Jewish Conspiracy thing just makes me sick. It is patently absurd that Silverstein would orchestrate this as he is obligated to pay the PA $60 million per month rent on the WTC even though it has not turned a dollar since 2001.
5) The whole bloody thing was on film! What's to discuss?
2) Most of the jet fuel burned explosively and the outward pressure of those explosions was expressed outside of the building...something to be expected unless you expect an office building to contain the explosive force of several tons of fuel. Some of that fuel was reported to have exploded in the lobbies of both towers after falling down the elevator shafts and several people in the lobbies were severely burned as a result.
3) Most of the aircraft in all four circumstances (on 9/11) were consumed by flame. Aluminum and magnesium do not fare well in fires and as airframes are made of both materials then they do not fare well. Look at any picture of a burnt airliner and there is very little left after the fire is done with it. The lack of wreckage at all four crash sites is conducive with what is to be expected with any other crash site.
4) The whole Larry Silverstein-Jewish Conspiracy thing just makes me sick. It is patently absurd that Silverstein would orchestrate this as he is obligated to pay the PA $60 million per month rent on the WTC even though it has not turned a dollar since 2001.
5) The whole bloody thing was on film! What's to discuss?
1- I agree, the design would have allowed the buildings to keep standing;)
2- Get the design of the elevator shafts:) as a protection against fires the shafts to not connect from top to bottom.
3- All planes that crash into the ground leave pieces like engines and tails and wings, do a little research look at pictures of crashed planes.
4- as for larry why did he buy the lease if it was such a bad deal. Might it have something to do with the insurance he bought to ensure the massive payout he got as a result of the attacks.
5- yes indeed the controlled demolitions are all on film. Amazing that some people cannot see the truth right in front of them.
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules ... le&sid=756
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