World War I & II
Antman @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:41 pm
Hitler wasn't Fascist, he was National Socialist 
IE, Mussolini was Fascist, Hitler was Fascist who based the government on Racism.
And I won't give him WW1. I have studied the First World War extensively, and I can honestly say that without US troops aiding the French and British, the Germans would have won the war.
Indelible @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:43 pm
imo, germany won the war for the allies. i think it was really dumb for hitler to have the 2-front war. if he woulda stuck to just one front he woulda had a way easier time.
aside from that, all of the allies contributed a lot, it doesn't really matter anymore who contributed more soldiers and material. also, no one has mentioned yet the help of the french underground which greatly aided the allies effort.
i just think this is irrelevant to the topic.
Indelible @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:44 pm
this WWII stuff belongs in another thread
Rev_Blair @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:52 pm
$1:
And I won't give him WW1. I have studied the First World War extensively, and I can honestly say that without US troops aiding the French and British, the Germans would have won the war.
What about the effects of the Spanish Flu. Many of the troops on both sides were too sick too fight near the end of the war. How did that change/affect the US influence?
I'm not that interested in battles etc in war...more the politics that surround them, Antman. The flu was a real wild card though, and didn't play politics at all...it hit everybody. When the soldiers/refugees brought it back home, it killed more Canadians than were killed in battle.
Indelible is right, this stuff needs its own thread.
cydur @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:53 pm
No ONE nation won them wars.They were won by a united front to give freedom to all.The returning vetrans won.The fallen soldiers lost.
Lest we forget (all vetrans)
Long live the free world
AdamNF @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:18 pm
Where to start.
$1:
D-day:
Canada 1 beach
US 2 beaches which are the most defended....
Canada 1 beach
US 2 beaches which are the most defended....
Juno was the second most defended beach. Look it up.
Also i never said Canada did more. I agree that the USA did more, but did not get involved untill they were threatend. The USA entered the war and help Britian and Russia win it.
$1:
You named 3 battles, and suddenly that is suppose to mean that the US has never won a war? You actually think the US has never won any war? You're a fucking moron Adam hahaha.
No, i named 3 wars because i agree with rest of what antman said.
Also Antman i do not think you did read up on World War 1, if you did would have found that Canada was major part. The Canadian army was the only army the Germans feared. Major battles were fought by Canadians, Newfoundlaners and the British. The USA fought in no major battles.
Johnnybgoodaaaaa @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:03 pm
AdamNF AdamNF:
Where to start.
Juno was the second most defended beach. Look it up.
Also i never said Canada did more. I agree that the USA did more, but did not get involved untill they were threatend. The USA entered the war and help Britian and Russia win it.
No, i named 3 wars because i agree with rest of what antman said.
Also Antman i do not think you did read up on World War 1, if you did would have found that Canada was major part. The Canadian army was the only army the Germans feared. Major battles were fought by Canadians, Newfoundlaners and the British. The USA fought in no major battles.
$1:
D-day:
Canada 1 beach
US 2 beaches which are the most defended....
Canada 1 beach
US 2 beaches which are the most defended....
Juno was the second most defended beach. Look it up.
Also i never said Canada did more. I agree that the USA did more, but did not get involved untill they were threatend. The USA entered the war and help Britian and Russia win it.
$1:
You named 3 battles, and suddenly that is suppose to mean that the US has never won a war? You actually think the US has never won any war? You're a fucking moron Adam hahaha.
No, i named 3 wars because i agree with rest of what antman said.
Also Antman i do not think you did read up on World War 1, if you did would have found that Canada was major part. The Canadian army was the only army the Germans feared. Major battles were fought by Canadians, Newfoundlaners and the British. The USA fought in no major battles.
What the hell are you talking about? The US fought in plenty of major battles. D-day in itself was a major battle. The German Army feared whoever was winning. There is no scientific proofs that the German army was only afriad of the Canadians. The Germany army feared the Allies in General. I don't see where you get this point of view that the US fought their way into the country from Normandy, and yet faced no battles? I thought the battle of the buldge, and countless other battles the US forces fought were pretty tough. The German Army didn't fear the Russians, yet look at how much the Russians fucked them up in the long run. The German Army didn't fear the British, yet look at how much they fucked them up. The German Army didn't fear the Americans because in World War 1 the United States was still developing and when the US used all it's might, it surprised them. I'm not going to bother argueing with you though, cause you are a biased basterd. All you can talk about is how great Canada is, when the US gave more to the war effort and lost more men, and fought tons of battles. I think you have an inferiority complex, because you can't admit that Americans would do anything right, and I dunno, you're just a dipshit.
Let me get this, you agree that the US did more in World War 2, yet you don't agree that they won the war, but you do think that Canada won the war? How do you come to the conclusion that a country who supplied the Allies with a major portion of their equipment, didn't win the war they were in, and only helped, while another country who gave less, loss less, did win the war? Are you okay in the head? I suggest you read some real history books other than your normal anti-american books. The US won World War 2 just as much as Canada did, and fought just as hard accross the European countryside. Don't disrespect when you didn't even lose as much.
I guess the US losing 35000 soldiers in the battle of the buldge still doesn't make it a major battle, right?
Here's a site for you to cure your ignorance:
http://www.multied.com/ww2/
Maybe you will learn something about the US battles of World War 2, or you will come back with your normal stupidity talking about how the US didn't win any major battles. I'm sorry, but how stupid can you be? They might not have lost the most people, but they did fight in some major battles. It wasn't all Canada, al lthe time, hahaha.
Antman @ Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:04 pm
He said World War 1.
The Americans sent over one million troops into the Battle of Verdunne. The Germans only feared the Canadian AND American armies (us North Americans are just so grand, aren't we?).
The only reason Kaiser Wilhelm II stopped his unresistricted submarine warfare the first time was because of Wilson's threat to go to war. Wilhelm did NOT want to fight the USA (he knew he could not beat them). He only reinstated the USW because he beleived he could defeat France before American troops arrived. I never said Canada didnt play a huge role in WW1, all I am saying is that if the USA had not gotten involved, the Entente would have been defeated.
Redragon @ Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:55 am
First of all, I like Americans, there are morons over there just like there are morons over here, the only thing that makes people distinguish and hate the morons over there so much is theres an imaginary line between them we call a border. Theres idiots everywhere, they've had bad Presidents, we've had horrible PM's. I like Americans and people shouldn't bash them so much. I do admit there are times I get extremely frustrated at the decisions the American people make but our idealogy is different because our history is different.
About WW2... we sent in a million, they sent in 16 million. That seems to be a huge difference but come on, think about the percentage. I'm pretty sure that in WW2 there were 10 million of us in all? Correct me if I'm wrong BTW I didn't look it up. 10% of people went and fought, thats a pretty good number! Plus the US had two, three years to prepare, with lots of money coming in from its wartime customers, when the UK declared war, we were still disarming 
. The thing that I was most impressed with the most is, well, we went into the war with I think less than a dozen ships, six years later, we came out with 400. I think thats amazing and knowing that, nobody can say that Canada didn't give its best. We also had a pretty good industrial machine too during WW2, a huge supplier to the Allied war effort. Nobody can deny that the US didn't do its part we have to give them credit, without them we might all have those funny mustaches on our faces right now. Actually, I think without the US actually joining the war, we might have won the European campaign, in 1942, Russia was turning the tide in the eastern front. The war would have stretched much longer and I think Japan would definately not be defeated. They would probably have much of Asia and Australia. And you guys can probably forget about the Soviets in the Cold War, we wouldn't have a Cold War, we'd be all screwed over.
As for WW1, the Allies had turned the tide but the US broke the back of the Axis. When it joined, there were 200 000 new troops each month entering the theatre. Germany and friends had no chance.
So in closing, the US played a major part in WW1 and WW2, it didn't just help, it shared in the winning. Canada worked its little heart out though, we stood our ground each time against an enemy so many times stronger. We deserved more credit then we received.
AdamNF @ Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:25 am
yeh, i said world war 1.
Antman @ Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:46 am
I agree with most of what you are saying, however, even Stalin asked Roosevelt to open a second front, because his troops simply could not keep advancing against the Germans. The Germans were very near forcing the Soviets into trench warfare. Same thing that when the Germans were forced to surrender, they asked Truman if they could only surrender to the Allies and keep fighting the Comintern. History only knows what would have happen if they had agreed.
Now, WW1... the Central Powers were being turned back around Paris. However, they were receiving fresh troops from the Eastern Front after Russia left the war. Also, the Austro-German troops were beginning a major campaign in Italy around Caparetto, aimed at capturing Rome. Now, it was not American troops that halted the Italian campaign, however, the only reason the French, Canadian, and British troops were able to be diverted there was because of incoming American troops alleviating the problems on the western front. In order for the Allies to have defended Italy without the Americans, they would have opened up Paris, and vice versa. Not to mention, if the Allies (technically, the Central Powers were the Allies, since they were the Triple Alliance, the Allied Powers were the Entente) had captured Rome, they would have possibly taken the Italian fleet. The German High Seas fleet plus the Italian Royal Navy (including the Austro-Hungarian Navy and the Ottoman Navy) might have been able to defeat the British Royal Navy. Technically, a slightly inferior force of Alliance ships might have been able to defeat a force of Entente ships, let's not forget the Battle of Jutland. The British took much heavier casualties, since the German ships were both better armored and their men exhibited better gunnery.
Johnnybgoodaaaaa @ Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:46 pm
Redragon Redragon:
First of all, I like Americans, there are morons over there just like there are morons over here, the only thing that makes people distinguish and hate the morons over there so much is theres an imaginary line between them we call a border. Theres idiots everywhere, they've had bad Presidents, we've had horrible PM's. I like Americans and people shouldn't bash them so much. I do admit there are times I get extremely frustrated at the decisions the American people make but our idealogy is different because our history is different.
About WW2... we sent in a million, they sent in 16 million. That seems to be a huge difference but come on, think about the percentage. I'm pretty sure that in WW2 there were 10 million of us in all? Correct me if I'm wrong BTW I didn't look it up. 10% of people went and fought, thats a pretty good number! Plus the US had two, three years to prepare, with lots of money coming in from its wartime customers, when the UK declared war, we were still disarming. The thing that I was most impressed with the most is, well, we went into the war with I think less than a dozen ships, six years later, we came out with 400. I think thats amazing and knowing that, nobody can say that Canada didn't give its best. We also had a pretty good industrial machine too during WW2, a huge supplier to the Allied war effort. Nobody can deny that the US didn't do its part we have to give them credit, without them we might all have those funny mustaches on our faces right now. Actually, I think without the US actually joining the war, we might have won the European campaign, in 1942, Russia was turning the tide in the eastern front. The war would have stretched much longer and I think Japan would definately not be defeated. They would probably have much of Asia and Australia. And you guys can probably forget about the Soviets in the Cold War, we wouldn't have a Cold War, we'd be all screwed over.
As for WW1, the Allies had turned the tide but the US broke the back of the Axis. When it joined, there were 200 000 new troops each month entering the theatre. Germany and friends had no chance.
So in closing, the US played a major part in WW1 and WW2, it didn't just help, it shared in the winning. Canada worked its little heart out though, we stood our ground each time against an enemy so many times stronger. We deserved more credit then we received.
About WW2... we sent in a million, they sent in 16 million. That seems to be a huge difference but come on, think about the percentage. I'm pretty sure that in WW2 there were 10 million of us in all? Correct me if I'm wrong BTW I didn't look it up. 10% of people went and fought, thats a pretty good number! Plus the US had two, three years to prepare, with lots of money coming in from its wartime customers, when the UK declared war, we were still disarming
. The thing that I was most impressed with the most is, well, we went into the war with I think less than a dozen ships, six years later, we came out with 400. I think thats amazing and knowing that, nobody can say that Canada didn't give its best. We also had a pretty good industrial machine too during WW2, a huge supplier to the Allied war effort. Nobody can deny that the US didn't do its part we have to give them credit, without them we might all have those funny mustaches on our faces right now. Actually, I think without the US actually joining the war, we might have won the European campaign, in 1942, Russia was turning the tide in the eastern front. The war would have stretched much longer and I think Japan would definately not be defeated. They would probably have much of Asia and Australia. And you guys can probably forget about the Soviets in the Cold War, we wouldn't have a Cold War, we'd be all screwed over.As for WW1, the Allies had turned the tide but the US broke the back of the Axis. When it joined, there were 200 000 new troops each month entering the theatre. Germany and friends had no chance.
So in closing, the US played a major part in WW1 and WW2, it didn't just help, it shared in the winning. Canada worked its little heart out though, we stood our ground each time against an enemy so many times stronger. We deserved more credit then we received.
I give so many props to Canada for what they did, I just don't enjoy people like AdamNF who always want to condemn the US. I will give someones country as much respect as they give mine, in a conversation. If you walk up and start saying the US didn't do shit and the Germans were only scared of the Canadian fighters(implying that Americans are pussies)then I am going to defend my country because I feel like those are wars that my country had a good part in. It's all about respect, if you don't give it, you aren't going to get it....
AdamNF @ Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:57 pm
$1:
If you walk up and start saying the US didn't do shit and the Germans were only scared of the Canadian fighters(implying that Americans are pussies)then I am going to defend my country because I feel like those are wars that my country had a good part in.
Johnny you need to stop implying and putting words in peopleÂ’s mouth. You have stated many things that you say I have 'Said' but in reality I did not, you just twisting my words and the meaning to fit you.
I did not say Americans were pussys. I said the Canadian army was the only army truly feared by the Germans. This is historical fact, taken from interviews with German officers and cable intercepts. I in no way tried to diminish the bravery of the American, British or French armies. You need to stop adding words to the end of my sentences. I also did not say Americans didnÂ’t do shit. I said they didnÂ’t do a lot, or as much as Canada, Britain and France. The USA did not fight in any key battles, I didnÂ’t say they didnÂ’t fight in any battles. And the USA did not join until 1917, the war was almost over by then and most of the major battles had been fought and victories one.
Thats all i will say.
Canadian_Psycho @ Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:26 pm
Didn't America get involved in WWI because they intercepted a letter from Germany to Mexico saying if Mexico invaded America and keep America out of the war in Europe, Germany would support Mexicos claim to California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas?
i'm just curious.
Canadian_Psycho @ Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:38 pm
This site gives a quick background of what happened at Juno Beach and supports Adam's claims about Juno being the second-most-heavily defended beach that day.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Juno+Beach
$1:
Juno was the second-most-heavily defended of the five landing sites chosen, after the more-famous Omaha Beach
$1:
By the end of D-Day the 3rd Canadian Division had penetrated farther into France than any other Allied force, having faced resistance stronger than at any beachhead save Omaha.
I'd rather not get involved in your guys little debate here. I'm just stating some facts.