G20 report blasts police for violations of civil rights
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peck420 @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:12 am
Guys, be very very careful when getting involved in situations like this.
During the riots in Edmonton, I made the mistake of getting involved.
2 skinny young men were throwing stones at a building store front. A building that I have a partial ownership of. I thought to myself, there is only two of them, and if I stop them, the crowd (of mostly good people- or so I thought) would back me up.
Not a good plan. The crowd was more than happy to assist the 2 in making sure that I didn't ruin anybodies 'fun'. Lucky for me, two fairly large EPS members decided that I was worth wading into the crowd for. If they hadn't it would have been a guaranteed multi week hospital visit.
Never assume that the 'others' will assist, or stand by and do nothing. You have no idea who has what intentions.
Just saying this for the 'take matters into their own hands group'.
ShepherdsDog @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:13 am
$1:
policing the streets isn't my job
Then, you're part of the problem, because policing the streets is everybody's job, which ios why we are allowed to make a citizen's arrest and laws were redefined and clarified last year to allow citizens to detain criminals.....remember David Chen and Bill C-26?
Gunnair @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:18 am
peck420 peck420:
Guys, be very very careful when getting involved in situations like this.
During the riots in Edmonton, I made the mistake of getting involved.
2 skinny young men were throwing stones at a building store front. A building that I have a partial ownership of. I thought to myself, there is only two of them, and if I stop them, the crowd (of mostly good people- or so I thought) would back me up.
Not a good plan. The crowd was more than happy to assist the 2 in making sure that I didn't ruin anybodies 'fun'. Lucky for me, two fairly large EPS members decided that I was worth wading into the crowd for. If they hadn't it would have been a guaranteed multi week hospital visit.
Never assume that the 'others' will assist, or stand by and do nothing. You have no idea who has what intentions.
Just saying this for the 'take matters into their own hands group'.
During the riots in Edmonton, I made the mistake of getting involved.
2 skinny young men were throwing stones at a building store front. A building that I have a partial ownership of. I thought to myself, there is only two of them, and if I stop them, the crowd (of mostly good people- or so I thought) would back me up.
Not a good plan. The crowd was more than happy to assist the 2 in making sure that I didn't ruin anybodies 'fun'. Lucky for me, two fairly large EPS members decided that I was worth wading into the crowd for. If they hadn't it would have been a guaranteed multi week hospital visit.
Never assume that the 'others' will assist, or stand by and do nothing. You have no idea who has what intentions.
Just saying this for the 'take matters into their own hands group'.
The point I was trying to make amongst all of the internet bravado. No one is saying don't be a good Samaritan but don't for a moment think that in a riot every one will back your six. You'll be on your own and if you are content with that, go in swinging.
Obviously people need to go back and look at some of the footage from the latest Stanley Cup riot in Vancouver to see how well the good Samaritans trying to stop looting and vandalism did and how much support the got by the crowd of onlookers.
OnTheIce @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:20 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
$1:
policing the streets isn't my job
Then, you're part of the problem, because policing the streets is everybody's job, which ios why we are allowed to make a citizen's arrest and laws were redefined and clarified last year to allow citizens to detain criminals.....remember David Chen and Bill C-26?
Policing the streets during a mass riot is the job of the public?
How many violent protests have you joined in to help the police stop this type of behaviour?
ShepherdsDog @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:28 am
quite a few fights in the hockey stands at MJHL games. I've also been in a few situations that made the riots in canada look like a meet and greet. I'm also smart enough not to go looking for trouble, but if it comes to me I'll defend me and mine.
bootlegga @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:49 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Even the guardians of society should have rules to follow - which should be enforced when they are broken.
Who watches the watchers?
In this case - the guy who issued this report - The Office of the Independent Police Review run by Director Gerry McNeilly.
bootlegga @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:56 am
Tricks Tricks:
bootlegga bootlegga:
I never said it was - but nice try...
Then comparing the police actions to those of Syria, Iran or China doesn't make much sense does it?
Hey, if the concept of human rights (of which civil rights are a part) is lost on you, then that's your problem. It's an all or nothing proposition - the police can't just pick and choose which of your rights are inalienable if your are doing nothing illegal.
We in the West like to bleat about human rights - but if our police are willing to deny them to people - then what gives us the right to bitch about other nations that do the same thing?
It's like I've argued in some Israel/Palestinian threads - if you want to be the guy in the white hat, you actually have to do the things you preach about all the time, not just when it suits you.
Fortunately, the director of the Office of the Independent Police Review knows that - which is why this report came out instead of being buried somewhere under the blue line cops like to hide behind.
bootlegga @ Thu May 17, 2012 7:57 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Seeing as Boots has been to other parts of the world I'm sort of surprised that he would make such a 'comparison'. Sort of like comparing a concrete post to an airbag as a safety feature in a car. Both will stop you in a collision.
See above...
andyt @ Thu May 17, 2012 8:35 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Seeing as Boots has been to other parts of the world I'm sort of surprised that he would make such a 'comparison'. Sort of like comparing a concrete post to an airbag as a safety feature in a car. Both will stop you in a collision.
See above...
Arguing anything but black and white is usually lost in discussions like this.
Curtman @ Thu May 17, 2012 8:44 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
You haven't got a flipping clue. They don't behave that way except in rare cases, which is why it stands out and investigations are held. There is absolutely no comparison between the Canadian police and the police in nations that use the police as a tool for state oppression. Your severely limited world view is extremely telling when you refer to Canadian police officers as Gestapo and Canadian politicians as fascists.
The Gestapo were just following orders too. Attacking unarmed, unmasked protesters while singing the national anthem on Canada day is disgusting behaviour. (Again, the day after the riot)
CDN_PATRIOT @ Thu May 17, 2012 9:23 am
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
"...the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."
Sir Robert Peel.
Sir Robert Peel.
Well said, sir.
-J.
andyt @ Thu May 17, 2012 9:28 am
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
"...the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."
Sir Robert Peel.
Sir Robert Peel.
Well said, sir.
-J.
Yes.
Except these days the police say don't get involved, just call us, and people who do get involved are often charged themselves. In Vancouver a guy who stopped a knife attack was charged himself with assault with a weapon - took a long time to straighten that out. A very burly guy who tried to stop the torching of a truck (not his own) had the shit kicked out of him by six dickheads. Same with a guy who tried to prevent the looting of a store.
And in the G20 situation, who should the upstanding citizens have confronted, the blockheads or the cops that were running riot? Both are required by an involved citizenry. I think the more serious problem is when the police break the rules, not the dickheads.
2Cdo @ Thu May 17, 2012 11:54 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I doubt you (or Lemmy) have every been involved in a massive organized protest where you stood up and took action. Comparing this to confronting a group of punks is laughable.
Well you would be wrong and still be part of the problem.
$1:
Let's wait until it happens in your neck of the woods. I expect to see you on tape fighting crime.
If it happens in my neck of the woods you can guarantee I'd step up, unlike yourself.
$1:
The ones above are doing the quarter-backing.
No, we're the ones who actually give a shit about order in the real world unlike yourself who admits that outside the internet you're afraid to man up.
Tricks @ Thu May 17, 2012 11:56 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Tricks Tricks:
bootlegga bootlegga:
I never said it was - but nice try...
Then comparing the police actions to those of Syria, Iran or China doesn't make much sense does it?
Hey, if the concept of human rights (of which civil rights are a part) is lost on you, then that's your problem. It's an all or nothing proposition - the police can't just pick and choose which of your rights are inalienable if your are doing nothing illegal.
We in the West like to bleat about human rights - but if our police are willing to deny them to people - then what gives us the right to bitch about other nations that do the same thing?
It's like I've argued in some Israel/Palestinian threads - if you want to be the guy in the white hat, you actually have to do the things you preach about all the time, not just when it suits you.
Fortunately, the director of the Office of the Independent Police Review knows that - which is why this report came out instead of being buried somewhere under the blue line cops like to hide behind.
So it is reasonable to compare our police to murderers.
Which is it? Reasonable or not?
2Cdo @ Thu May 17, 2012 11:57 am
Curtman Curtman:
The Gestapo were just following orders too. Attacking unarmed, unmasked protesters while singing the national anthem on Canada day is disgusting behaviour. (Again, the day after the riot)
Yep, the resident dope smoker comparing our police to the Gestapo.
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