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I don't see this as a solution that will work for the Liberals. The reason is Ontario. Too many Ontarians remember Bob Rae and the mess the NDP made provincially. A marriage between federal Liberals and NDPs will send right-leaning Ontario Liberal supporters running for the CPC and left-leaning Liberals to the Greens. Support for the Liberals in Ontario would splinter like a composite hockey stick.

   

I don't think so. The poll indicated otherwise. What is also so important is going to be the vote distribution. Plenty of seats that were won by the CPC would have been won by either the Libs or NDP had they combined the vote. Even if Rae were to lead (and that is unlikely), the fact that Layton will be a major player will retain support.

Who knows, they might even pick up substantial Green support as Greens realize that the only possible way to get anything they want would be from the Lib-NDP alliance.

The last time threehundredeight reported on this the poll question was "who is your second pick". In that one fully 3/4s of NDPers said Lib with the other 1/4 split between CPC and Greens.

The Libs had about 60% with a second pick as the NDP or Greens.

As long as they are up front about any coalition or merger then i think it will be Harpers worst nightmare. As it is the only beneficiary of a split left vote is the cons which is why they are so intent on ridiculing it.

   

Here is a crazy idea.

Rather than trying to get into bed with the NDP, why don't the Liberals try coming up with policies and ideas that the entire (or most of the) country can get behind? Why don't they try and form a viable alternative?

   

Co-operation not coalition, anything more will cause me to shred my Liberal Party Membership card and send it to Michael Ignatieff.

   

Who says they haven't? Even if they haven't, it seems having no policies and a proven track record of backtracking on everything they ever said has worked for the Cons.

Why shouldn't they explore a partnership with the NDP? The NDP has a lot of support and its supporters deserve a voice.

They said the same thing back in the day about the PCs and Reform/Alliance but in the end they merged because it made sense.

Frankly I wouldn't mind in the least if the left and right were each a single party and had platforms reflecting that. It would let the voters know where each party stood and the fate of the government would be in the hands of the voters rather then in the hands of inter-party deals out of necessity that few of the voters supported.

   

Sour grapes.



Yes, that's why the Liberals want to partner with the NDP, to give NDP voters a voice... You kill me.



It wasn't so much a merger as it was a re-unification. Up until the late 80's they were the same party.

Were the Liberals and the NDP ever under the same tent?



If the Liberals merge with the NDP and go signifigantly left, then they no longer be an alternative party for me.

They will have lost my vote.

   

Nope. Just restating the evidence.




Yeah, thats why the PCs did not want to untie with the Alliance. I certainly want the NDPers to have a voice and I'm a staunch Liberal supporter. I know many of my brethren are the same. In fact Facebook is awash with groups that show cooperation between the 2 groups is high. I think the Greens deserve a say as well.




So you say. You could consider this the same way since the NDP were founded back in the 60s.

It was still a unite the right campaign and a unite the left isn't any different.



As much as the PCs and Alliance were.




In other words they would stop being the party you don't hate when you cast your vote for the CPC.

Suppose the policies they agree upon are ones you happen to like? Would you reconsider or will you do what a lot of disgruntled PCers and Refomers/Aliance did back during the right wing merger and simply stay home?

   

That's your criteria? The liberals were in power for 12. I say vote for whoever meets your needs, not who's been in four years.

   

Anyone who thinks this is a solution has their head up their ass. The Libs are already too far left. Adding in the NDP will shift them too far away from centre, which means they still won't get a majority.

If you want to govern Canada (at least in the 21st century), you need to present a centrist platform. That's how Harper has maintained his minority government, by minimizing the far right elements of his party and presenting a more centrist position for the Conservatives. If he ever starts preaching about the death penalty or banning/restricting abortions, he'll be gone too. Dion wasn't able to mount a challenge because of his eco platform, which many Canadians are skeptical about and feel is too left wing. Iggy might want to shift the Libs back to the centre, but the party diehards won't let him.

   

I'd say the past election says they didn't.

Had they presented a platform that Canadians could get behind, they wouldn't be in the Opposition right now. Dion's eco platform fell on deaf ears (mostly), and that's why the NDP gained ground. The Libs need to shift back to the centre if they want to govern. I'd vote for Iggy if I thought he could shift it back to where it was before Trudeau became PM, but he hasn't been able to do that.

They can explore a partnership with the NDP, but if they ever merged, they'd forever lose my vote. I simply don't care for too many of the NDP's core policies.

   

Sure but so far the people saying they won't support this are the people unlikely to vote for them anyway. Its kinda like ridenrain commenting on Lib policy as if anything they did would win his support.

Interestingly while you say they are too far left people like Rev Blair are telling me they see virtually nothing "left" left in the Liberals. Of course he is very unlikely to vote Lib as well.

   

Comrade Rev thinks the NDP are too centrist!

   

I have NDP in my profile, although I am not a big supporter of the liberals having chief say in any form of coalition or merger, which I feel would be the result -- I'm sorry, but I'd rather have the conservatives in power than the liberals possibly taking a merged party down with them. Admittedly, I'd likely have a C in my profile too at this point, since I really am not beholden to either end of the political spectrum and have agreements with the economic planning of the conservatives with a touch of the social concepts pushed by the NDP, especially stuff like gay rights or abortion. Sadly, I do not feel the Liberals are a centrist party which actually combines those two in an effectual manner, so likely would not vote for them no matter which province or riding I was in.

If the NDP-Liberal coalition does happen, they have to make leadership clear, platforms clear, and plans clear from the get-go, and this time around they should not try to drag the seperatists in for the votes -- the thing that really killed last time was in part due to the fact that, sure, people voted for the left, but not for the seperatists, from people I heard from. As seen, dumping Ignatieff would do wonders now -- make the party into something good by getting an actual leader who leads.

   

Greens will have a say when they start winning seats in the house. Dippers will have a greater say when they increase their numbers in the house.

If they don't have the policies to win them the necessary votes to grow, I suppose they need to examine their policies and reshape them to appeal to a wider number of Canadians.



The NDP grew out of the CCF. They did not fracture off the Liberal party.



Do you know the history of the CA/Reform party and how they came to be?



I'm a right leaning centrist, I doubt their policies would appeal to me.

   

No. Greens have a say because they represent 8-10% of the voters. Winning seats isn't the complete issue. Same as the NDP. In fact due to the particulars of our system we often see either the leading majority party govern with no input from any other party or an out of proportion voice from a supporting party (generally not the official opposition) in a minority.






So what? They still evolved from people who were at least at one time from another party or supported it. The Reformists considered themselves in much the same light as did the Alliance.

A unite the left is simply no different then unite the right.

   

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