AMERICA SUCKS (Not true RH)
IRONMIKE @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:42 am
matrix matrix:
First of all, the popular vote in the United states (Majoirty of voters) have chosen to vote the Democrats, as in Al Gore, as in a Smart politician in Gore (almost as smart as Clinton, but not quite). The population has spoken, but out of some sort of outagous system the US has, the popular vote loses the election. The State in question, Florida, well, we all know the Bush Klan has connections to there leaders there. In no way shape or form is this Democracy. In Canada we have true democracy. They dont. They have American Democracy, which in theory is the best democracy there is, but in practice, it doesnt work, just like Communism.
Second of all, equal representative state by state is actually unfair. Why? The State of North Dekota (sorry cant spell) has a population of about half a million. THATS THE POPULATION OF THE CITY OF HAMILTON, ONTARIO!!!!
But the STate of California has 27 Million people, nearly the size of the whole of Canada. THATS 56 TIMES THE POPULATION OF NORTH DEKOTA!!!
How on earth is that fair representation, does the half million people in North Dekota worth more representation than 27 million Californians?!?!?!?!?!?
How can a state the population of Hamilton have the same amount of representation (2 senetors) as a state the population of all of Canada? Do u call that fair representation?
Yes, I do call it fair, why in gods name do you think we have 2 houses? Can you imagine a small state with only 800k people trying to get any support for infrastructure when dealing with states like New York, Florida, California and Texas. This system of Government was set up to ENSURE fair representation. Otherwise a block of 2 or 3 large states could effectively control the entire nation. The house of reps is set up in a percapita basis to ensure states with larger populations are represented.
I don't often like to say bad things but MATRIX, I would appreciate it if you would stop comparing "American" democracy with Communism. I had the pleasure to travel to Poland, East Germany and Romania in 1988 with the US Air Force when the Russians were still the USSR and these nations were under communist control. Quite frankly, how dare you compare the two systems of Government. The only pleasure derived from the trip was a deep appreciation for what the western democracies can allow the person to accomplish. I am afraid that your political science books will not/can not and have not describe what the communist system of government did to "the people" burdened by this so called system of Government. In this case I can assure you that you are way off target. But of course it is you right to hold this opinion.
Thank you,
Kurt
RoyalHighlander @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:49 am
trackratte trackratte:
Many would die before they let an American Flag fly from the peace tower.
I know i would....
Cowtown_Girl @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:04 am
Yes we get defensive. You are talking about annexing our country and making it part of the US. Our system would be no more and we'd become part the American system. Everything from our healthcare to government would change...and I personally don't think it's for the better.
You know what would be a great idea? If we did join as one but Canada annexes the US. All the states would then be a part of Canada--which I guess would make them provinces. I you could enjoy all that our system has to offer.
I would bet you don't like the sound of that idea--and I'm sure it has more to do with personal pride and identity than it does with economics.
Hopper @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:21 am
And you forget, ComradeF that the EU is uniting as an economic force....they are not combining into one country. There was some talk of having one North American currency - Bush is not in favour of it and neither are the majority of Canadians. You have never been to our country, so you don't fully understand how unique it is to your own. I've lived in both - they are distinctly different.
IRONMIKE @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:29 am
FOLKS,
You know what is really neat. This discussion is reaffirming my feelings that we North Americans are VERY independent. There is no way Canada and the US will ever "Join" we are just to damned independent. Our countries were founded by people with and independent spirit who were willing to pull up roots and go into the unknown to be free. Sounds like star trek eh? The EU works because of who they are. There is no way an AU would work with the same restrictive structure as the EU uses. A much less restrictive union might be a possibility with all of the American nations "north, central and south".
I think we are all getting upset about something that will never happen. Canada will always be (and should be) Canada. The US will always be (and always should be) the US.
Thank you, thank you very much.
Kurt
The most
electricbuford @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:45 am
Here's a thought : Ask Canadians to vote on whether or not Canada should merge or join with the U.S. . The vast majority results ought to quickly put an end to the likelihood of Canada becoming part of the U.S. in any shape or form .
JJ @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:12 am
That's because most Canadians just have a blind hatred of the USA.
They haven't learned the numerous advantages of joining America, nor do they want to. But in time, they will learn. I already see an increasing intrest in joining the United States amongst a lot of younger Canadians. The number is only something like 10% in favor right now, but it will continue to get higher as the years go on.
Cowtown_Girl @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:35 am
I've got news for you...I don't hate Americans. In fact, I married one. And I enjoy alot of things that the US has to offer. But living here has given me perspective on our differences which some people may refer to as insignificant...but in fact point out why we should remain as our own countries.
RoyalHighlander @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:35 am
JJ_from_filibuster JJ_from_filibuster:
That's because most Canadians just have a blind hatred of the USA.
They haven't learned the numerous advantages of joining America, nor do they want to. But in time, they will learn. I already see an increasing intrest in joining the United States amongst a lot of younger Canadians. The number is only something like 10% in favor right now, but it will continue to get higher as the years go on.
The way you talk reminds me of a low loike car salesman that tried to sell me a clunker once. I passed on his BS and then ran into the guy that DID buy it and saw how bad he got screwed for buying it
They haven't learned the numerous advantages of joining America, nor do they want to. But in time, they will learn. I already see an increasing intrest in joining the United States amongst a lot of younger Canadians. The number is only something like 10% in favor right now, but it will continue to get higher as the years go on.
Cowtown_Girl @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:38 am
Oh...and living here has shown me the exact opposite of what you suggest. I see no advantage to Canada joining with the US and I see every advantage in retaining Canada's own unique identity by remaining as its own country.
matrix @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:08 am
J.J. from Filibuster J.J. from Filibuster:
I am glad you are such an expert on what I do and do not know. For your information I am a second year political science student just like you. I have also read numerous books on all sorts of political subjects and thus have an independent and critical mind when it comes to politics. So please don't accuse me of being un-informed on this topic.
um... just to make things clear, I have completed my Poli. Sci degree, I am going into my second year of working towards a Masters... I got my undergrad at RMC...and doing my masters at York.
I accused you of being uninformed not bcause of your education, but you arguments.
J.J. from Filibuster J.J. from Filibuster:
In the last Canadian election, Jean Chretien became the Prime Minister dispite the fact that the Liberal Party only got 41% of the popular vote. That means that the MAJORITY of Canadians did not vote Liberal, and did not want Mr. Chretien to be Prime Minister. How is this any more democratic than what happened in America?
We may not always agree with the results of elections, but we have to accept them. It is worth noting that what happened in the American 2000 election is a very very rare occurance, and has not happened in over 100 years. Where as in Canada, our Prime Ministers are frequently elected with very small pluralities.
Yes, Chretian only had 41% of hte popular vote, but you know what? We have more main stream parties.. .they didnt have 50% plus one, but they still had the most votes. In the case of the United States, the party with the most votes did not win.
J.J. from Filibuster J.J. from Filibuster:
Okay, so your logic goes something like this:
"If you are a state (or province) with a small population, it is your own damn fault and therefore you do not deserve to be equal with the country's other reigons."
Okay, dont make up your own argument to argue against like you did here. In CAnada, to a certain extent we have the same unfairness, like Toronto has several MPs representing a constituency with more dense a population than say... Londons constituency...but hte difference isnt as big as in the US. 2 people representing 27 millon and the same two people representing 500 000?? thats unfair.. you dont see how unfair it is? If the US used the constituency method as Canada, then things would be more fair since it takes into consideration population.
So realy, wiht two senetors in CAlifornia...1 senator represents 14 Million. But in North dekota, 1 senetor represents only a quarter of a million. Californians and people of North Dekota all pay the same federal taxes... sooo why is the tax money from North Dekota worth more that of a single Californian adult?
J.J. from Filibuster J.J. from Filibuster:
Well, I don't know why you consider the Democrats to be "center right," but whatever. America may only have two parties, but there is a huge range of diversity of opinion within them. In the Democrats you have everyone from moderate liberals to outright socialists. Just look at all the Democrats who are running for President. Al Sharpton, John Kerry, Dennis Kucinich, Dick Gepheart, Joe Liberman... They all have very different opinions on a wide variety of issues.
Well, then if both parties represent sooo many views, then why choose a party if they both have representatives of the same view? If I voted for say teh democrats cuz I wanted a socialist government, then 1 month into there term, they suddenly make a shift to the Right side of the ideological scale, thats fair? I vote for one thing, but get another.
you also mentioned the history of the two nations. I can probably name more bad parts of AMerican history than you can name Canadian.
Slavery after the constitution write up, Salem witch hunts, Communist hunts, Arab hunts after 9-11..
In Canada, we created a whole territory in which the natives can govern themselves, cant say the same about Native AMericans. The French is given there own province to govern, cant say the same about the Spaniards in California. Infact, we even allow the French to continue there seperetism campaigns, in the US of, thats an act of treason. I think we have given pretty fair treatments of the natives and the French.
electricbuford @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:36 am
matrix matrix:
[
In Canada, we created a whole territory in which the natives can govern themselves, cant say the same about Native AMericans. The French is given there own province to govern, cant say the same about the Spaniards in California. Infact, we even allow the French to continue there seperetism campaigns, in the US of, thats an act of treason. I think we have given pretty fair treatments of the natives and the French.
In Canada, we created a whole territory in which the natives can govern themselves, cant say the same about Native AMericans. The French is given there own province to govern, cant say the same about the Spaniards in California. Infact, we even allow the French to continue there seperetism campaigns, in the US of, thats an act of treason. I think we have given pretty fair treatments of the natives and the French.
Wait a minute !! here in America we have RESERVED areas for our Native peoples - they're called Reservations . Plus , we let them run their own casinos . Maybe in another generation or two , they will forget all about their old customs and heritage and learn to become true Americans . Throw em' into the melting pot and set the temperature to high ! - After all , doesn't everyone want to be American ?
matrix @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:32 pm
I have to admit, having a tiny bit of a melting pot is good. AT least immigrants should learn the language of hte nation...they can keep there customs...but respect the Canadian custum as well.. so basically a Salad Basket with some dressing from the melting pot 
but a "high temperature" melting pot is not good...especially if its American!...lol joking.. Canada is more multicultural than the US because of our Fruit Basket (or Salad Bowl) customs, although in a way, we allow too much give in terms of immigrants.
Canada has native reserves just like AMericans. Casino Rama, one of hte largest casinos in CAnada is run by NAtives..its really really cool... and lets not be too stereotypical, im sure there are Native Americans in other professions as well other than Casino operators.
Nunivat is a territory with its own representatives in our Parliment, like MPs. Does the US have Native representatives for each reserve? Like a congressman for the blackfoots or whatever?? Nunivat also has more rights than any other territory or Province other than Quebec. They are given powers that most provinces leave to the feds, sooo thats how much power we give them. As for the French, same thing,the Province of Quebec is the second most important economic power other than The City of Toronto...
they have many industries that are for Quebecers, Bombardier is a French Canadian company (Largest producer of Business class jets and small aircrafts in the World...soemtimes called the Boeing\Air Bus of luxury jets)...
oh yeah and Natives in Canada have the right to be accepted into any University in the country regardless of how there marks in school are. As long as they are 1\16th native, all Universities MUST accept them. We have enough scholarships for them so that nearly every native that is in a University has free tuition, regardless of marks. They are given more rights than the regular citizen of Canada, cant say the samething about AMerican natives right?
JJ @ Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:51 pm
I am not sure who keeps deleting Comrade F's post, so I will post it again for him:
$1:
Guys, guys.
This is silly.
First of all, I'd like to point out that I'm a Texan (first person to utter a cowboy joke gets a full crash-course on the reality of Texas) and a friend of JJ's. I've never been to Canada, but I would REALLY like to go.
Now, from reading this, I think a few things are fairly obvious...
JJ brings some objective arguments to the table, and you guys FLIP. I mean, it was almost comical.
My personal opinion, like you care, is as follows... I do believe Canada and the USA will merge. Probably not in any of our lifetimes, mind you, but I do see it happening. I believe the inevitability of this uniting is what makes many Canadians so defensive... and I find that depressing. I would welcome Canada to the union with open arms. I realize a lot of other [stupid/uneducated] Americans may throw some sort of tantrum, but hey, that's their problem. Likewise, Canadians wouldn't be pleased at all... I mean, drat, there goes your Friendly Dictator.
This is not to say that our government is fully superior to Canada's... hell, we screw up quite a bit... the difference is that we let our rep's know we're watching them. The vast majority of Canadians seem to pay more attention to what the big, mean ol' USA is doing than to what Mr Chretien is doing. Why? Well, because we're bigger, badder, and more active. That isn't our fault. Study World War II's atrocities, and you'll understand why the USA has become so "interested" in the rest of the world. It also explains our actions in Iraq. (Actually, I, like many other Americans, question what really went on over there... but I don't feel like discussing that. Veritable explosion at a place like this!)
What interests me is that so many Canadians think the union is unfathomable. Because we have nothing in common? Friends, please. Look at Europe. How many distinct cultures can you count there? Many of them are merging to form a greater body, the EU, which exists to show economic and political strength to the rest of the world. We're Europe and we're proud. I think it's a great thing. My point with that, though, is that if 10(+) completely different OLD countries can form such powerful bonds after so many years of struggling with and against each other... why is it so hard to imagine that someday, two countries that share SO VERY MUCH in common could merge to form something even more powerful and prosperous? And like I said before, I think Canadians understand that it will happen someday... and that's probably not a very comfortable thing. Solution? Many of you lash out at the bastard Americans who would propose such a nasty thing. But I dunno, guys. I think it would be good, and I hope to see a more beneficial friendship/union form between our nations.
This is silly.
First of all, I'd like to point out that I'm a Texan (first person to utter a cowboy joke gets a full crash-course on the reality of Texas) and a friend of JJ's. I've never been to Canada, but I would REALLY like to go.
Now, from reading this, I think a few things are fairly obvious...
JJ brings some objective arguments to the table, and you guys FLIP. I mean, it was almost comical.
My personal opinion, like you care, is as follows... I do believe Canada and the USA will merge. Probably not in any of our lifetimes, mind you, but I do see it happening. I believe the inevitability of this uniting is what makes many Canadians so defensive... and I find that depressing. I would welcome Canada to the union with open arms. I realize a lot of other [stupid/uneducated] Americans may throw some sort of tantrum, but hey, that's their problem. Likewise, Canadians wouldn't be pleased at all... I mean, drat, there goes your Friendly Dictator.
This is not to say that our government is fully superior to Canada's... hell, we screw up quite a bit... the difference is that we let our rep's know we're watching them. The vast majority of Canadians seem to pay more attention to what the big, mean ol' USA is doing than to what Mr Chretien is doing. Why? Well, because we're bigger, badder, and more active. That isn't our fault. Study World War II's atrocities, and you'll understand why the USA has become so "interested" in the rest of the world. It also explains our actions in Iraq. (Actually, I, like many other Americans, question what really went on over there... but I don't feel like discussing that. Veritable explosion at a place like this!)
What interests me is that so many Canadians think the union is unfathomable. Because we have nothing in common? Friends, please. Look at Europe. How many distinct cultures can you count there? Many of them are merging to form a greater body, the EU, which exists to show economic and political strength to the rest of the world. We're Europe and we're proud.
I think it's a great thing. My point with that, though, is that if 10(+) completely different OLD countries can form such powerful bonds after so many years of struggling with and against each other... why is it so hard to imagine that someday, two countries that share SO VERY MUCH in common could merge to form something even more powerful and prosperous? And like I said before, I think Canadians understand that it will happen someday... and that's probably not a very comfortable thing. Solution? Many of you lash out at the bastard Americans who would propose such a nasty thing. But I dunno, guys. I think it would be good, and I hope to see a more beneficial friendship/union form between our nations.
fatbasturd @ Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:06 am
texan wrote...I would welcome Canada to the union with open arms. ...no bloody doubt aboot it, seeing how your country is running out of natural resources....and you live right next door to the second largest country in the world, with one of the lowest population densities in the world....I would welcome them to!!!!. Your goverment is allready pushing to drain the great lakes for freash water, and you can't even supply constant hydro to some of your major cities and states...your goverment is looking at Canada like it was a peice of fried chicken...and they are real HUNGRY!