Here is something I beleive needs to be said...
lily lily:
How is it unacceptable to allow a slight alteration to accommodate a member?
Because pretty soon everyone wants to make a "slight alteration" and eventually the significance of the uniform is lost and its meaning diluted.
Hester @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:09 pm
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
Changing the uniform was an unacceptable case, in my opinion. Uni- means one, so unless they're going to start calling them multiforms, it shouldn't be allowed... especially since the officer would be identified by that uniform.
But in general, change can be good... it's all about the paradigm shift.
Dictionaries evolve too.
Hester Hester:
Erinites Erinites:
The point was what other country would show such accomodation and conformity.
If other countries wanted to jump off a bridge would we jump too?
That is exactly what makes us who we are...
"attractive"..
themasta themasta:
lily lily:
How is it unacceptable to allow a slight alteration to accommodate a member?
Because pretty soon everyone wants to make a "slight alteration" and eventually the significance of the uniform is lost and its meaning diluted.
But it is only diluted to this generation...do you think that the uniforms/multiforms of the past, truly meen to us what it did to those who wore them.Those who come after us will not feel the same ,and I think thats what scares people so much about change.
Hester @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:15 pm
Erinites Erinites:
Your missing the point...
Canada is the only country which will adapt for it's guests..
Then I say good for us. Welcome to Canada.
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
Changing the uniform was an unacceptable case, in my opinion. Uni- means one, so unless they're going to start calling them multiforms, it shouldn't be allowed... especially since the officer would be identified by that uniform.
But in general, change can be good... it's all about the paradigm shift.
This is the kind of stuff that angers me greatly. I ROYALLY hate it when people get stuck on the dictionary definition. The Oxford English Dictionary says marriage is between a man and a woman, so you gays can't be married. Are you always the first to play the semantics game when it suits you? Yeah? So does pg's 12-year-old.
Is the "Mountie" a Canadian icon Or a Canadian stereotype?
Either way... "dude" went through the process just like everyone else and EARNED the right to the uniform.
Altered or not!
lily lily:
Yeah... and that's already happened, right? We allowed the guy to wear a turban, and that opened the floodgates.
[/sarcasm]
Thanks lily, I almost didn't catch your sarcasm, luckily though you pointed it out for me. Golly-gee, if you hadn't I might have missed out on your clever wit and my life just wouldn't have been the same!
Damien @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:27 pm
Especialy when it comes from a woman
But hey, it must be fun to make fun of us sometimes....
Hester @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:28 pm
fatbasturd fatbasturd:
themasta themasta:
lily lily:
How is it unacceptable to allow a slight alteration to accommodate a member?
Because pretty soon everyone wants to make a "slight alteration" and eventually the significance of the uniform is lost and its meaning diluted.
But it is only diluted to this generation...do you think that the uniforms/multiforms of the past, truly meen to us what it did to those who wore them.Those who come after us will not feel the same ,and I think thats what scares people so much about change.
Did the changes to any traditions that happened when you weren't looking, that you're not aware of, dilute the tradition for you? Does the RCMP mean less to you today? Or does it just mean less to those wearing the uniform?
Everything evolves, traditions have evolved, uniforms have evolved. In the CF the Dress Instructions are amended often. I get calls all the time because things change so fast most don't even know what's allowed and what's not. Ponytails, braids for women; same for Native Canadians, body piercings, tattoos; the orders of dress are changing fast - if you've been in two years you've been in long enough to see plenty.
So why are we the ones who get to say "STOP!"? Why now? The changes are going to happen without us, and are happening all around. Stay with the times or get left behind.
Do these people know how un-Canadian their attitudes are? Or is it just me who thinks that Canadians perceive themselves as accomodating?
Hester Hester:
This is the kind of stuff that angers me greatly. I ROYALLY hate it when people get stuck on the dictionary definition. The Oxford English Dictionary says marriage is between a man and a woman, so you gays can't be married. Are you always the first to play the semantics game when it suits you? Yeah? So does pg's 12-year-old.
First of all, chill out; do you buy your panties pre-bunched?
I only mentioned the fact that uni- means one because a uniform serves a specific purpose: to unify a group of people for a specific reason. I don't care about the traditional sentiments most are expressing, I'm just saying that if wearing a hat serves some purpose, then that purpose is lost when you make exceptions to the rule.
If there's no real reason for the hat anymore, or if it's alright to make exceptions, then someone should have just as much right to refuse to wear the hat altogether. It's discrimination to give special privileges to someone because of their religion, and being a minority doesn't exempt anyone from that fact.
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
I know I've posted this in the past, but I'm going to do it again. One quarter of the Ojibwa people were found to have a gene found only in European peoples. At first it was thought that it was the result of the two peoples intermarrying after colonization. Geneticists have since found that the DNA is in fact 17 000 years old. It has been discovered that Clovis point culture originated in Europe as well. Roman coins have been found in the Gulf of Mexico. There has been sporadic contact between Europe and North America for a long time. Europeans have had permanent settlements in the Americas for close to five hundred years.
Excellent points overall, but I think the Clovis point claim is still a little shakey.
Coins are also a problem, because it's too easy for someone today to buy a Roman coin and drop it where convenient.
Google the 'Red ochre people' sometime. It was a culture that buried their dead in, surprisingly, red ochre. Also had other distinctive burial customs, Found in Newfoundland, Labrador, Ungava. Surprisingly enough, the exact same thing is found in northern Scandanavia, Archangelsk region, Russia, and on to the east. Archaeologists refuse to accept that they were the same people because they find it impossible to hypothesize a Cross-Atlantic culture.
The last red-ochre communities may have been the Beothuk of Newfoundland. The funeral ceremonial was used as the opening scenes of Canada : A People's History.
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
How long do you have to live in a place before you're no longer seen as an immigrant, interloper or invader?
Until you can accuse someone else of stealing from you.
Hester @ Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:54 pm
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
I only mentioned the fact that uni- means one because a uniform serves a specific purpose: to unify a group of people for a specific reason. I don't care about the traditional sentiments most are expressing, I'm just saying that if wearing a hat serves some purpose, then that purpose is lost when you make exceptions to the rule.
If there's no real reason for the hat anymore, or if it's alright to make exceptions, then someone should have just as much right to refuse to wear the hat altogether. It's discrimination to give special privileges to someone because of their religion, and being a minority doesn't exempt anyone from that fact.
That's the primary purpose of a uniform. Fortunately uniforms have become more practical over the centuries. And continue to do so.
But not all aspects of a uniform have to be identical. Different units, different trades, different elements have identifiable features. I wear my pants bloused with the army combat boot (not CADPAT or sea boots). Means people would rather cross the street than walk past me. They know who I am and where I work.
The only purpose of the hat is to indentify your element (by its colour) and your trade and/or unit (by your cap badge). Why do we wear the hat? Because we're told to. Don't want to wear a hat? Come up with a very good reason and it'll be done. It won't be worth the aggravation to have people like me stopping you and asking you why you're not wearing a hat. Have the paperwork saying you can go without headdress in your pocket. Laminate it - you'll be asked for it often.
Anyway - uniforms will be indenfiable. Put a turban on the Mountie you'll still recognize him as a Mountie. I saw Mounties with earrings two weeks ago. It took effort for me not to go up to their car and ask "WTF?"
Unless you're Klinger we will know who you are and who you work for.