Model to be caned for drinking beer
leewgrant @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:02 am
Different strokes for different folks.
$1:
Model to be caned for drinking beer
A model sentenced to six lashes of the cane for drinking beer will become the first Malaysian woman to suffer the punishment under Islamic law.
An Islamic court ordered that Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, 32, be beaten with a rattan cane after she was caught in a raid on a hotel night club in eastern Pahang state last year.
Prosecutor Saiful Idham Sahimi said Kartika will be the first woman to be caned under Islamic law after she chose not to appeal the sentence.
"This is the first case in Malaysia. ... It is a good punishment because under Islamic law a person who drinks commits a serious offence," he said.
The court said the sentence must be carried out in a woman's prison sometime next week.
Saiful said Kartika will remain in prison during that time and will be released "as soon as possible" after the caning is carried out.
The cane will be lighter than the one used on men, and its purpose was to "educate" rather than punish he said.
Muslims, who make up about two-thirds of Malaysia's 28 million people, are governed by Islamic courts in all civilian and Islamic matters. Most alcohol offenders are fined, but the law also provides for a three-year prison term and caning.
Non-Muslims are governed by civil courts, which also impose caning for offences such as rape and corruption. Women, children and men above 50 are exempt under civil law. Caning, administered on the buttocks, breaks the skin and leaves permanent scars.
A model sentenced to six lashes of the cane for drinking beer will become the first Malaysian woman to suffer the punishment under Islamic law.
An Islamic court ordered that Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, 32, be beaten with a rattan cane after she was caught in a raid on a hotel night club in eastern Pahang state last year.
Prosecutor Saiful Idham Sahimi said Kartika will be the first woman to be caned under Islamic law after she chose not to appeal the sentence.
"This is the first case in Malaysia. ... It is a good punishment because under Islamic law a person who drinks commits a serious offence," he said.
The court said the sentence must be carried out in a woman's prison sometime next week.
Saiful said Kartika will remain in prison during that time and will be released "as soon as possible" after the caning is carried out.
The cane will be lighter than the one used on men, and its purpose was to "educate" rather than punish he said.
Muslims, who make up about two-thirds of Malaysia's 28 million people, are governed by Islamic courts in all civilian and Islamic matters. Most alcohol offenders are fined, but the law also provides for a three-year prison term and caning.
Non-Muslims are governed by civil courts, which also impose caning for offences such as rape and corruption. Women, children and men above 50 are exempt under civil law. Caning, administered on the buttocks, breaks the skin and leaves permanent scars.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74246.html
ridenrain @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:43 am
Repression or what.
DerbyX @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:50 am
Nope. Their laws and punishments. Its no different then our laws surrounding drugs. At least their laws make a decent attempt to not force other faiths to adhere to such religiously motivated laws unlike other religions.
ridenrain @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:05 am
It's their religion, their laws and their punishment and she didn't appeal.
Even during the mot stupid years of the US prohibition, punishments were never so steep. There's something wrong with a religion that demands such brutality.
leewgrant @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:14 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
It's their religion, their laws and their punishment and she didn't appeal.
Even during the mot stupid years of the US prohibition, punishments were never so steep. There's something wrong with a religion that demands such brutality.
Even during the mot stupid years of the US prohibition, punishments were never so steep. There's something wrong with a religion that demands such brutality.
There was a time in Christianity when people were tortured or burnt at the stake if they weren't of the "right" faith. Happened a lot during the Reformation - by all denominations.
From my perspective the most telling difference is that in Malaysia religions can determine the punishment (and crimes) of their own adherents. Obviously not something permitted here.
DerbyX @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:18 am
Like I said before. If a light caning was all the punishment you would receive people would be smoking crack on the steps of the courts just to save travel time. Thats exceedingly less then getting stuck in jail for even small times.
I imagine they think they are being extremely modern and progressive and very fair. I also imagine they think our society has lost control with our own drug wars and problems associated with alcohol and thing their system is heads and shoulders above ours.
Regardless, their country their rules. Don't like it? Tough. Feel free not to visit.
ShintoMale @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:16 am
Malaysia has a DUAL legal System
Dual justice system
The dual system of law is provided in Article 121(1A) of the Constitution of Malaysia. Article 3 also provides that Islamic law is a state law matter with the exception for the Federal Territories of Malaysia.[1] Islamic law refers to the sharia law, and in Malaysia it is known and spelled as syariah. The court is known as the Syariah Court. Looking at the Malaysian legal system as a whole, sharia law plays a relatively small role in defining the laws on the country. It only applies to Muslims. With regards to civil law, the Syariah courts has jurisdiction in personal law matters, for example marriage, inheritance, and apostasy. In some states there are sharia criminal laws, for example there is the Kelantan Syariah Criminal Code Enactment 1993. Their jurisdiction is however limited to imposing fines for an amount not more than RM 3000, and imprisonment to not more than 6 months.[2] In August 2007, the then Chief Justice of Malaysia proposed to replace the current common law application in Malaysia with sharia law.[3]
As an example of the dual system, sometimes a nightclub is raided, and Muslim patrons drinking alcohol are prosecuted in Shariah courts, while the others are allowed to drink. Also the nightclub operator is not charged with any offense, because he is not legally required to check if customers are Muslim before serving them.
[edit] Complications
Complications have arisen with regard to the dual justice system, for example with regard to freedom of religion. Article 11 of the Constitution provides that "Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion". However in the case of Lina Joy—a Malay who converted to Christianity—the Federal Court of Malaysia refused to allow her to change her religion indicated in her identity card (MyKad). The judges held that they had no jurisdiction on the matter—that it was a matter of the Syariah Court, as indicated in Article 121(1A) of the Constitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Mal ... ice_system
Praxius @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:20 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
It's their religion, their laws and their punishment and she didn't appeal.
Even during the mot stupid years of the US prohibition, punishments were never so steep. There's something wrong with a religion that demands such brutality.
Even during the mot stupid years of the US prohibition, punishments were never so steep. There's something wrong with a religion that demands such brutality.
I'd rather take a couple of licks in the back from a stick for smoking pot then to spend time in prison.
And during US Prohibition on Alcohol, the punishments were very excessive, esspecially towards the bootleggers, whom typically were gunned down and displayed on the front pages for all to see..... while typical users spent a good number of years in jail.
Get a smack in the back and be sent on your way.... seems a hell of a lot better.
ridenrain @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:22 am
Thanks for that illumination. I was wondering how they would identify folks. I was wondering if Muslims would chose the regular system but they'd then be denouncing syariah law and would be in even more trouble.
The fact that they won't let you legally change religion is also troubling.
martin14 @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:27 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
I was wondering how they would identify folks.
a guess... its on their identity cards.
Which means one of the raiding officers would be required
to check such things.. religous police ?
Praxius @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:28 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
Thanks for that illumination. I was wondering how they would identify folks. I was wondering if Muslims would chose the regular system but they'd then be denouncing syariah law and would be in even more trouble.
The fact that they won't let you legally change religion is also troubling.
The fact that they won't let you legally change religion is also troubling.
Well, one can either try and fight the system and change it.... or leave and go to another country that better suits one's personal views, leaving those who want this way of life to their own disposal.
Then one would be able to change their faith and not worry about the government trying to drag them in for a whoppin.
BartSimpson @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:30 am
DerbyX DerbyX:
If a light caning was all the punishment you would receive...
Derby, your perception of caning is not what these folks are doing. People die from being caned and some years ago when an American punk was convicted for grafitti in Indonesia he was sentenced to thirty cane strokes. The reason this drew the attention of President Clinton (as it should have) is that 30 cane strokes is a defacto death sentence.
Six cane strokes will leave the victim scarred and potentially disabled.
But, yeah, respect their 'diversity' if you wish.
ridenrain @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:31 am
martin14 martin14:
ridenrain ridenrain:
I was wondering how they would identify folks.
a guess... its on their identity cards.
Which means one of the raiding officers would be required
to check such things.. religous police ?
I was thinking of Rwanda while I was reading that..
Praxius @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:32 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
DerbyX DerbyX:
If a light caning was all the punishment you would receive...
Derby, your perception of caning is not what these folks are doing. People die from being caned and some years ago when an American punk was convicted for grafitti in Indonesia he was sentenced to thirty cane strokes. The reason this drew the attention of President Clinton (as it should have) is that 30 cane strokes is a defacto death sentence.
Six cane strokes will leave the victim scarred and potentially disabled.
But, yeah, respect their 'diversity' if you wish.
Well what would you suggest? That we go in and "Liberate" them from their oppressive way of life?
Lead the way.... I'll be right behind you.
Added:
And if that many cane whacks can cause the person death, then maybe those people should grow some thicker skin.
martin14 @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:40 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
martin14 martin14:
ridenrain ridenrain:
I was wondering how they would identify folks.
a guess... its on their identity cards.
Which means one of the raiding officers would be required
to check such things.. religous police ?
I was thinking of Rwanda while I was reading that..
quick trip through wiki confirms it would be stamped on the ID card.
like ethnic groups in Rwanda, Kenya, hundred other places.
Maybe Canadians should be happy we dont have such things...