The Arrogant Certainty Of Science
roger-roger @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:03 am
There are many moderates and progressive churches that embrace science and its interpretations on life.
lynnefoster @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:56 am
That should suit a reptile like yourself.
Try the moonies !
ShepherdsDog @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:01 am
Eisen,
I thought you were going to let Lynne have a chance with the brain.
roger-roger @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:18 am
lynnefoster lynnefoster:
That should suit a reptile like yourself.
Try the moonies !
Try the moonies !
That doesnt even make sense...
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Eisen,
I thought you were going to let Lynne have a chance with the brain.
I thought you were going to let Lynne have a chance with the brain.
She thought we said train...
ShepherdsDog @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:19 am
..and missed hers
PluggyRug @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:04 pm
And the Lord sayeth unto Moses "Come forth"
"Hey hold on there" said Einstein, "should he not come first"
"Yes" sayeth the Lord "but his car broke down"
"Ok" said Einstein "I will get a quantum mechanic to fix it"
Robair @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:42 pm
roger-roger @ Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:46 am
Clutch is awesome, I like The Mob Goes Wild better though 
Zipperfish @ Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:58 pm
commanderkai commanderkai:
So you believe that the only root of the Irish conflicts is religion? Maybe I missed it, but that's what he implied.
He didn't imply that to me. Certianly the division--the fight--was between Catholics adn Protestants, althought like any conflict it became about what perceived wrongdoings happened yeserday, not what happened a hundred years ago. I thought his point was that religion is a culturally hreeditary trait.
$1:
I do not think Dawkins sees the distinction. In the past he has shown himself to be an avid attacker of those religious and religion in general. I agree with Einstein that religion and science do not have to be on the opposite sides of the spectrum, but rather working hand in hand. Dawkins statements against religion just polarizes this.
Maybe that's so. I haven't kept up with Dawkins. He never used to attack religion. H etreated it as an interesting evolutionary adaptation, and he got annoyed with people who tried to ascribe mystic aspects to some of his theories (memes, for example). I didn't see him attack religion in this context. He was talking about teh difference between faith-based belief adn evidence-based belief. The former is not very useful in science, but it can be useful elsewhere (in my opinion).
$1:
Ah but he hinted at it with the portion about Belfast. I never claimed that Dawkins stated this, but rather numerous members on this site have. I was referring to atheists in general, and the arrogance that is labeled against atheists stems from their many statements against religion.
If I claimed that Darwin was the inspiration for the Holocaust (I don't believe this, so bear with me) and thus science is evil and horrid and must be banned, I should be laughed away as a nut, so why is the opposite allowed?
If I claimed that Darwin was the inspiration for the Holocaust (I don't believe this, so bear with me) and thus science is evil and horrid and must be banned, I should be laughed away as a nut, so why is the opposite allowed?
I agree with you argument 100%. I can't vouch for others on this site, but I don't think there's much evidence to support the idea that religion is the cause of all wars. ONly humnanbs are good and evil. Science and religion are abstarct concepts. They can't be good or evil except insofar as men make them so.
$1:
So you believe that Dawkins respects faith? I believe his past comments refute that, at least when it deals with religious faith.
Yes, I do. We all have faith in something, I think (and my thinking was influenced by Dawkin's early works).
lynnefoster @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:45 pm
Science is harassed by prejudice.
CanadianJeff @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:58 pm
I have no idea who you are lynne and this is the first time I've seen you here but seriously you need to borrow a brain from someone. I can't help but shake my head at every single thing you have posted here.
djakeydd @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:39 pm
commanderkai commanderkai:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
In interesting video, he makes some good observations...
What observations? Honestly there was nothing really interesting or good about them. Just showing a map of Belfast and religion is the only difference between Catholic Irish and Protestant Irish is a farce, and shows poor understanding of the deeper conflict, particularly the British aspect of it.
The reason why science (Dawkins claim), or rather atheists (what he REALLY meant), are considered arrogant is because they believe they are correct, when many of their ideas and beliefs on religion and religious faith are nothing but lies and myth. The most common I see on this site is the "Religion is a major factor in the start of wars", which is a lie, and has been since maybe the last 300 or so years. But that myth has been continued for who knows how long, and no matter what evidence is shown to discount that, it keeps on going.
And maybe faith has a little more to do with the interpretation of evidence than the lack of evidence. Where a religious person sees a miracle, an atheist sees random chance. Where a religious person sees the hand of God or feels the touch of God, or whatever else, an atheist discounts that as insanity or ignorance or something else.
The arrogance does not come from the fact that you're an atheist, honestly, I couldn't give a damn if you are or not, it's the fact that as an atheist, you become arrogant in both mocking those of faith, and religion itself. Dawkins opened the door to being labeled as arrogant because he is arrogant, and being humbled by the mysteries of the universe doesn't change that at all.
The atheists like Dawkins will never be humbled by the universe because their contention is that they know all the knowledge of the universe. If that were not so, they would not say there is no God, as if they somehow exclusively possess that knowledge. In effect, atheists consider themselves as gods. That is the oldest lie in the universe and it is how the devil first deceived mankind - "you shall be as gods"
Bacardi4206 @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:01 am
commanderkai commanderkai:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
In interesting video, he makes some good observations...
What observations? Honestly there was nothing really interesting or good about them. Just showing a map of Belfast and religion is the only difference between Catholic Irish and Protestant Irish is a farce, and shows poor understanding of the deeper conflict, particularly the British aspect of it.
The reason why science (Dawkins claim), or rather atheists (what he REALLY meant), are considered arrogant is because they believe they are correct, when many of their ideas and beliefs on religion and religious faith are nothing but lies and myth. The most common I see on this site is the "Religion is a major factor in the start of wars", which is a lie, and has been since maybe the last 300 or so years. But that myth has been continued for who knows how long, and no matter what evidence is shown to discount that, it keeps on going.
And maybe faith has a little more to do with the interpretation of evidence than the lack of evidence. Where a religious person sees a miracle, an atheist sees random chance. Where a religious person sees the hand of God or feels the touch of God, or whatever else, an atheist discounts that as insanity or ignorance or something else.
The arrogance does not come from the fact that you're an atheist, honestly, I couldn't give a damn if you are or not, it's the fact that as an atheist, you become arrogant in both mocking those of faith, and religion itself. Dawkins opened the door to being labeled as arrogant because he is arrogant, and being humbled by the mysteries of the universe doesn't change that at all.
I have family in Belfast and you don't know shit about what goes on down there. The British have no involvement in that. It is stricltly a religious issue between them that goes bad instantly.
The catholics would all march up into the protestant area while the protestant would do the same which sparks major brawls weekly. They hate each other strictly because they feel they are wrong. In Ireland and N.Ireland religion has always been a key factor in life. The greatest job a family can be proud of there son for getting is a priest.
As for you claiming religion hasn't sparked any wars, what crack pipe have you been smoking? Religion divides people and people use it as a excuse to do what they do. The pope used the crusades as a excuse to invade the middle east, etc and so forth. Al Quada is currently using religion to recruit people to it's side by telling them they are doing it for god and they will be rewarded in heaven.
There are examples of religous related violence all over the world and through-out history. Even some linking directly to religion itself.
You want to close your eyes and pretend that's not true than that's your choice.
As for your other ramblings... everything you have just said was completly shared by religion and has been doing that even before athiesm. Before religion would kill anybody who claimed there wasn't a god or claimed a religion was the wrong religion. In the early times like the medieval times and up.
Maybe we are just taking good examples from you guys? Because there hasn't been a time where religion hasn't been shoved down anybody's throats. There hasn't been a time where a group of individuals would bitch or even kill somebody over disputes about religion.
What the guy said in the video was that religious people call Science a Arrogant Certainty but in reality so is faith.