What's the point of Jesus?
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ShepherdsDog @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:44 pm
$1:
Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
This demonstrates that there were already righteous people living. They didn't require Christ's intervention. There are similar quotes throughout the New Testament.
jeff744 @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:46 pm
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
jeff744 jeff744:
their heads have been filled with an idea and have blocked out scientifically proven facts that the smartest people in the world have created.
I like that. Looks an awful lot like yer saying they made up these facts. Facts either exist or they don't, you can't create a fact.
I will agree with one thing, the belief that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old flies in the face of conventional wisdom and common sense.
A technicality based on poor word choice, which at the moment is the best that I can do (headache, sun exhaustion, sore shoulder make it hard to come up with words)
Their main argument is that carbon dating is so flawed that is apparently cannot measure the age of anything to any extent.
Elvis @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:56 pm
$1:
I generally keep an open mind but the more I argue with religious people the closer I come to becoming a full athiest (my sole remaining belief is that something sparked the big bang)
Ha the last great mystery. The human race have alway come back to a supernatural explanation when confronted by a mystery (Thunder, hurricane, plague, earthquake......) and now the last big mystery is the birth of the universe has we know it.
Now let be reasonable for once, since ALL the previous mystery where after all natural phenomena, then would it be reasonable to assume the the Big bang was also the result of a natural phenomena that we just did not figure out yet?
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:58 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
jeff744 jeff744:
their heads have been filled with an idea and have blocked out scientifically proven facts that the smartest people in the world have created.
I like that. Looks an awful lot like yer saying they made up these facts. Facts either exist or they don't, you can't create a fact.
I will agree with one thing, the belief that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old flies in the face of conventional wisdom and common sense.
A technicality based on poor word choice, which at the moment is the best that I can do (headache, sun exhaustion, sore shoulder make it hard to come up with words)
Their main argument is that carbon dating is so flawed that is apparently cannot measure the age of anything to any extent.
I know, was just havin some fun with ya
Like I said, the thought that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old makes me laugh, and I'm a Christian.
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:03 pm
Elvis Elvis:
$1:
I generally keep an open mind but the more I argue with religious people the closer I come to becoming a full athiest (my sole remaining belief is that something sparked the big bang)
Ha the last great mystery. The human race have alway come back to a supernatural explanation when confronted by a mystery (Thunder, hurricane, plague, earthquake......) and now the last big mystery is the birth of the universe has we know it.
Now let be reasonable for once, since ALL the previous mystery where after all natural phenomena, then would it be reasonable to assume the the Big bang was also the result of a natural phenomena that we just did not figure out yet?
ALL previous mysteries??? Really? They ain't explained ghosts yet, and yes they ARE real. They ain't explained transcendental meditation yet, but it's real.
Hell, they haven't even explained how life formed yet, they're still guessing and hypothesizing. All the previous mysteries my ass
jeff744 @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:04 pm
Elvis Elvis:
$1:
I generally keep an open mind but the more I argue with religious people the closer I come to becoming a full athiest (my sole remaining belief is that something sparked the big bang)
Ha the last great mystery. The human race have alway come back to a supernatural explanation when confronted by a mystery (Thunder, hurricane, plague, earthquake......) and now the last big mystery is the birth of the universe has we know it.
Now let be reasonable for once, since ALL the previous mystery where after all natural phenomena, then would it be reasonable to assume the the Big bang was also the result of a natural phenomena that we just did not figure out yet?
Here is the problem: The universe as best we know should not exist, the sum of everything is 0, for every mole of matter there is a mole of antimatter, everything balances to 0. Something happened to set it off but the chance of it actually happening is so astronomically low it shouldn't have, once science finds an explanation for that I will believe everything has an answer.
Elvis @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:18 pm
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
Elvis Elvis:
$1:
I generally keep an open mind but the more I argue with religious people the closer I come to becoming a full athiest (my sole remaining belief is that something sparked the big bang)
Ha the last great mystery. The human race have alway come back to a supernatural explanation when confronted by a mystery (Thunder, hurricane, plague, earthquake......) and now the last big mystery is the birth of the universe has we know it.
Now let be reasonable for once, since ALL the previous mystery where after all natural phenomena, then would it be reasonable to assume the the Big bang was also the result of a natural phenomena that we just did not figure out yet?
ALL previous mysteries??? Really? They ain't explained ghosts yet, and yes they ARE real. They ain't explained transcendental meditation yet, but it's real.
Hell, they haven't even explained how life formed yet, they're still guessing and hypothesizing. All the previous mysteries my ass
C'mon Ghost And why not Fairy give me a break. So if science cannot explain something then you think that it is reasonable to assume that a unproven supernatural being is the cause??? That is just silly and infantile.
DrCaleb @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:22 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
Elvis Elvis:
$1:
I generally keep an open mind but the more I argue with religious people the closer I come to becoming a full athiest (my sole remaining belief is that something sparked the big bang)
Ha the last great mystery. The human race have alway come back to a supernatural explanation when confronted by a mystery (Thunder, hurricane, plague, earthquake......) and now the last big mystery is the birth of the universe has we know it.
Now let be reasonable for once, since ALL the previous mystery where after all natural phenomena, then would it be reasonable to assume the the Big bang was also the result of a natural phenomena that we just did not figure out yet?
Here is the problem: The universe as best we know should not exist, the sum of everything is 0, for every mole of matter there is a mole of antimatter, everything balances to 0. Something happened to set it off but the chance of it actually happening is so astronomically low it shouldn't have, once science finds an explanation for that I will believe everything has an answer.
You are in luck.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... ntimatter/
CanadianJeff @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:34 pm
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
This is a question that has been brought up in theological circles for years.
Even though the Bible says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light, no man may enter the Kingdom of Heaven but by me", there is some leniency in that rule.
For example, there would have been MANY people condemned to hell for the first few hundred years or so simply because they never even heard of Jesus Christ, nevermind His death and resurrection. I don't buy that.
Same with little children. God said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me".
The idea that Jesus is the key to heaven is basically for people that have heard the stories about Jesus Christ.
It was explained to me years ago that it's all about choice. If you haven't heard the Word, well then you are unable to make the choice. However this doesn't equate with earthly laws where ignorance is no excuse.
If someone lives their entire life never hearing the word of God, yet still tries to live a good life, I don't think for one second God is going to punish one of His children by condemning them to hell.
As for the Catholic Church as a source of acknowledgement, considering their current, recent and ancient history, nevermind the fact that they routinely break one of the 10 commandments in their doctrine, I'm not surprised they'd claim there was an "out".
As for Abraham and Isaac, it was test of Abraham's faith. Jesus sacrifice was something entirely different. The whole purpose of sacrificing Christ was to actually make it easier to ask forgiveness and get into heaven. Before that, animals pure in virtue were sacrificed to ask for forgiveness.
This is also why I laugh at some Christian groups that hate the Jews because it was the Jews that were responsible for Jesus' death.
These silly people don't realize that if Jesus hadn't have been put to death, the entire Christian religion wouldn't even exist. Despite their rationale for condemning Jesus to death, the Jewish clerics at the time were unintentionally instrumental in the formation of the Christian faith.
Even though the Bible says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light, no man may enter the Kingdom of Heaven but by me", there is some leniency in that rule.
For example, there would have been MANY people condemned to hell for the first few hundred years or so simply because they never even heard of Jesus Christ, nevermind His death and resurrection. I don't buy that.
Same with little children. God said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me".
The idea that Jesus is the key to heaven is basically for people that have heard the stories about Jesus Christ.
It was explained to me years ago that it's all about choice. If you haven't heard the Word, well then you are unable to make the choice. However this doesn't equate with earthly laws where ignorance is no excuse.
If someone lives their entire life never hearing the word of God, yet still tries to live a good life, I don't think for one second God is going to punish one of His children by condemning them to hell.
As for the Catholic Church as a source of acknowledgement, considering their current, recent and ancient history, nevermind the fact that they routinely break one of the 10 commandments in their doctrine, I'm not surprised they'd claim there was an "out".
As for Abraham and Isaac, it was test of Abraham's faith. Jesus sacrifice was something entirely different. The whole purpose of sacrificing Christ was to actually make it easier to ask forgiveness and get into heaven. Before that, animals pure in virtue were sacrificed to ask for forgiveness.
This is also why I laugh at some Christian groups that hate the Jews because it was the Jews that were responsible for Jesus' death.
These silly people don't realize that if Jesus hadn't have been put to death, the entire Christian religion wouldn't even exist. Despite their rationale for condemning Jesus to death, the Jewish clerics at the time were unintentionally instrumental in the formation of the Christian faith.
Um you know the moment we get 20 or 30 sects of Christianity all claiming to have a deep personal relationship with Jesus and no two of them can agree 100% on Jesus stance on major issues such as Homosexuality and Abortion it really points to me that none of them actually know a real person who has honest opinions. Honestly the very fact that so many people claim to have a very personal relationship with Jesus but still vastly disagree about what he thinks proves to me that very very few people if any really know the guy. He may not even exist.
Yogi @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:06 pm
Pretty simple explanation when it all comes down.
"ALL religion is based on bullshit and scare tactics"
"Spirituality comes from within"
"Be nice" covers it all"
nm
CanadianJeff @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:18 pm
only about 17% of Canadians attend church on a weekly basis. The truth is that I think religion is being slowly replaced by people no longer needing a religious reason to live but rather finding new meaning in their lives in our age of higher education and freedom of information.
The church made sense when there was no google or forums or youtube to go and share your thoughts and research to learn the real facts about issues. People want to church to get the information they thought they needed to find a purpose in their life. That information is now vast and free with the internet.
With this age of ipods and internet and video games it's super easy to distract yourself from your worries and easier then ever to find out the scientific explanation for complex issues rather then have to refer to a priest or pastor.
Now we just need to get the Muslims some cell phones and laptops and I think we'll be one large step closer to world peace.
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:14 pm
Elvis Elvis:
C'mon Ghost And why not Fairy give me a break. So if science cannot explain something then you think that it is reasonable to assume that a unproven supernatural being is the cause??? That is just silly and infantile.
Oh, ok "Elvis" So because you have never experienced them and science hasn't explained them, there's no such thing right? Talk about ASSuming
My last house had ghosts. I've seen them, heard them and felt them.
Yer the one being infantile naive even suggesting that all the great mysteries have been answered. Big Bang? The formation of life? Hell, we haven't even explored a tiny fraction of the ocean floor. There's mysteries of life abounding there based on what little HAS deen discovered.
Quite frankly, there's only 2 ways life could have taken root here. Either by sheer lucky accident, or on purpose. And I, for one, don't believe in luck.
martin14 @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:29 pm
andyt andyt:
I've already explained why I don't question Muslims and Scientology. Well I do think Scientologists and atheists are idiots, I guess I'm bigoted that way. I do question Buddhism quite a bit, because that is the other religion I engage with.
hmm, still waiting for why you dont question Islam....
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:43 pm
Yogi Yogi:
Prety simple explanation when it all comes down.
"ALL religion is based on bullshit and scare tactics"
"Spirituality comes from within"
"Be nice" covers it all"
nm
"ALL religion is based on bullshit and scare tactics"
"Spirituality comes from within"
"Be nice" covers it all"
nm
That says it all right there Yogi. Religions are brands and they all want to sell you their "wares".
C.J: THat's why beliefs are supposed to be personal. They are between you and God. Not between you and a minister, or priest, or nun, or bishop, or whatever.
I call myself a Christian because I believe in God, I believe that he sent Jesus to die for our sins, and I believe in the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Although I'll readily admit that it's not always easy to follow that rule and sometimes I fail miserably. To me, that's what makes a Christian. Not worrying about semantics and not getting bogged down in bullshit details helps too.
But religious brands over complicate things and muddy the waters, so to speak. Even going so far as to add their own rules that have nothing to do with Christ's teachings.
And even if I'm wrong about everything else, at least I know I tried to be a decent human being while I was here.
Thanos @ Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:07 am
At it's best the concept of the child of "God" taking human form can be used to inspire people to goodness, both individually and collectively. At it's worst the concept can be twised into about the most dangerous and destructive weapon of political thought control ever invented. And, unfortunately, the incidences of the latter massively outweigh that of the former.
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