Debunking the 47 million uninsured myth
Toro @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:41 pm
$1:
Let us break down the infamous '47 million uninsured.' According to the Census Bureau, of that 47 million, 38 percent of them (18 million) have personal incomes of more than $50,000 a year. This means that they can afford coverage, and choose not to purchase it. Is it just to tax other working people to subsidize health coverage for these 18 million who could afford it for themselves but choose not to purchase it for themselves? Anybody with half a brain towards liberty would have to answer no to the above question.
Now that leaves us with 29 million uninsured left to explain.
Of that 29 million uninsured, the biggest chunk of them aren't even citizens. Yes, you guessed it, those pesky illegal immigrants that drive up the cost of everything. It seems that our uninsured problem is directly related to the lack of border security! Of course they wouldn't be able to be covered by private health insurers because they do not possess citizenship! Their number is about 12.6 million, or 27 percent of the original '47 million uninsured' number. This could be a higher percentage, because many prominent think tanks place the number of illegal immigrants as high as 20 million, instead of the 12 or 13 million figure. However, for the sake of argument, let us go with the most conservative figure.
Subtract the 12.6 number from the remaining 29 million uninsured number, and we come to the next stage of our breakdown, 16.4 million uninsured.
Of that remaining 16.4 million uninsured, 8 million are under the age of 18. If the parents of these young ones cannot afford to cover them either on their own family plans or independently, there are public insurance options already available for them but their parents have just not signed them up.
So that leaves us with 8.4 million uninsured, a figure less than 3 percent of the American population, and many of these are 18-20 somethings who choose not to purchase health coverage because, well, they think that they won't get sick! Health experts actually refer to this age group as the 'invincibles!' The remainder of this 8.4 million uninsured are low income and could easily be covered by either federal Medicare or state run Medicaid or some charity insurance programs, and they for whatever reason have chosen not to go and get signed up.
Now that leaves us with 29 million uninsured left to explain.
Of that 29 million uninsured, the biggest chunk of them aren't even citizens. Yes, you guessed it, those pesky illegal immigrants that drive up the cost of everything. It seems that our uninsured problem is directly related to the lack of border security! Of course they wouldn't be able to be covered by private health insurers because they do not possess citizenship! Their number is about 12.6 million, or 27 percent of the original '47 million uninsured' number. This could be a higher percentage, because many prominent think tanks place the number of illegal immigrants as high as 20 million, instead of the 12 or 13 million figure. However, for the sake of argument, let us go with the most conservative figure.
Subtract the 12.6 number from the remaining 29 million uninsured number, and we come to the next stage of our breakdown, 16.4 million uninsured.
Of that remaining 16.4 million uninsured, 8 million are under the age of 18. If the parents of these young ones cannot afford to cover them either on their own family plans or independently, there are public insurance options already available for them but their parents have just not signed them up.
So that leaves us with 8.4 million uninsured, a figure less than 3 percent of the American population, and many of these are 18-20 somethings who choose not to purchase health coverage because, well, they think that they won't get sick! Health experts actually refer to this age group as the 'invincibles!' The remainder of this 8.4 million uninsured are low income and could easily be covered by either federal Medicare or state run Medicaid or some charity insurance programs, and they for whatever reason have chosen not to go and get signed up.
http://community2.myfoxmemphis.com/_Deb ... 80520.html
Of course, that leaves 3% of the population chronically uninsured for which something should be done, but that is a whole lot different than the numbers often tossed out there.
Proculation @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:33 pm
That's something I try to say for a long time.
If you take the person here in Canada who are not resident or the bums, that must be around 3% too. They would take care too in emergency without fees like in the US tho.
Bruce_the_vii @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:02 pm
I don't entirely believe the problem is small and simple but admitedly the numbers indicate the situation in the USA is not as bad as the 47 million figure indicates.
Dayseed @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:20 pm
People who don't think there's a health care crisis in America have their heads in the sand. The former head of Cigna recently resigned and blew the whistle on the health care industry. His change of heart came from witnessing a travelling health clinic overwhelmed by people coming from 3 different states to be stationed on lawns, fields and in trolleys in order to receive even the most basic health care.
If you want to believe everybody in America is A-OK on health care, go there and get a major illness. Don't hope for OHIP though...
daveS @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:39 pm
Dayseed Dayseed:
People who don't think there's a health care crisis in America have their heads in the sand. The former head of Cigna recently resigned and blew the whistle on the health care industry. His change of heart came from witnessing a travelling health clinic overwhelmed by people coming from 3 different states to be stationed on lawns, fields and in trolleys in order to receive even the most basic health care.
If you want to believe everybody in America is A-OK on health care, go there and get a major illness. Don't hope for OHIP though...
If you want to believe everybody in America is A-OK on health care, go there and get a major illness. Don't hope for OHIP though...
I was there last week and got an MRI in one day, actually the same day I went to the specialist, this was a cold call. I paid cash and got a 25% discount.
on the other hand
My wife’s friend in Toronto found out last week she has cancer, 6 weeks wait to see a specialist.
Nice system we got.
Bruce_the_vii @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:02 pm
The average 31 country OECD spending on health care, both public and private in 2007, was $2,964 per capital. In the USA it was $3,895 per capita, 31% richer. They pay more, they get more.
stokes @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:08 pm
daveS daveS:
I was there last week and got an MRI in one day, actually the same day I went to the specialist, this was a cold call. I paid cash and got a 25% discount.
on the other hand
My wife’s friend in Toronto found out last week she has cancer, 6 weeks wait to see a specialist.
Nice system we got.
My father-in-law lives near St. Catherines, he was biopsyed 3 weeks ago, had surgery on tuesday and starts chemo the 15 of August,the tough part for him was convincing his family doctor that something was more serious than hemiroids.
Same with my mother, she fell ill around Canada Day in 2000, she had an MRI and began treatment before the 7 of July, unfortunately it was too late for her.
I have found for serious illnesses our system is not bad at all and these long waits are more the exception than the norm.
Scape @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:27 pm
God help you if your cover is rescinded.
TattoodGirl @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:39 pm
Funny, the kidney meds I have taken and still do since I was a wee child are not covered by insurance in the States. I paid for them there....they have always been covered in Canada. Pathetic
Same old story...."what you dont have the money...well then you are screwed"
Dayseed @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:02 pm
daveS daveS:
Dayseed Dayseed:
People who don't think there's a health care crisis in America have their heads in the sand. The former head of Cigna recently resigned and blew the whistle on the health care industry. His change of heart came from witnessing a travelling health clinic overwhelmed by people coming from 3 different states to be stationed on lawns, fields and in trolleys in order to receive even the most basic health care.
If you want to believe everybody in America is A-OK on health care, go there and get a major illness. Don't hope for OHIP though...
If you want to believe everybody in America is A-OK on health care, go there and get a major illness. Don't hope for OHIP though...
I was there last week and got an MRI in one day, actually the same day I went to the specialist, this was a cold call. I paid cash and got a 25% discount.
on the other hand
My wife’s friend in Toronto found out last week she has cancer, 6 weeks wait to see a specialist.
Nice system we got.
Well, an acquaintance of mine found out she had cancer. She saw the specialist the next day and had surgery to remove the tumor within 4 days. Once she recovered from the surgery, she started chemo.
She's alive and cancer-free.
It IS a nice system we've got. Don't play the fucking anecdote game; it doesn't impress anybody and it proves nothing about the aggregate.
Robair @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:51 pm
Toro Toro:
http://community2.myfoxmemphis.com/_Debunking-the-47-Million-Myth/BLOG/405931/80520.html
Of course, that leaves 3% of the population chronically uninsured for which something should be done, but that is a whole lot different than the numbers often tossed out there.
Of course, that leaves 3% of the population chronically uninsured for which something should be done, but that is a whole lot different than the numbers often tossed out there.
$1:
Medical bills are responsible for more than 60 per cent of personal bankruptcies in the Unites States, reports a new study by Harvard Medical School. And what is interesting, 75 per cent of the bankruptcy filers had health insurance.
The study data is more likely to understate the full range of the problem because the information was gathered before the current financial crisis. Bankruptcies due to medical bills rose by about 50 per cent between 2001 and 2007, from 46 per cent in 2001 to 62.1 per cent in 2007, and most of the individuals who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners.
The study data is more likely to understate the full range of the problem because the information was gathered before the current financial crisis. Bankruptcies due to medical bills rose by about 50 per cent between 2001 and 2007, from 46 per cent in 2001 to 62.1 per cent in 2007, and most of the individuals who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners.
http://www.enotalone.com/article/19645.html
No thanks. I'll take just about any other system in any other developed country over that.
herbie @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:09 pm
So I have an Aunt who got diagnosed with luekemia just before christmas and told she had 3 to 6 months to live.
A week and a half later they told her the labs tests discovered it was treatable.
She got a hell of a scare for ten days.
She isn't dead.
She isn't bankrupt.
She doesn't even have to pay for the $5,000 a month drugs.
And they didn't waste a couple grant on a goddam MRI because the doctor and labs got referral kickbacks and half the population thinks you need one for a goddam skinned knee.
daveS @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:16 pm
Dayseed Dayseed:
daveS daveS:
Dayseed Dayseed:
People who don't think there's a health care crisis in America have their heads in the sand. The former head of Cigna recently resigned and blew the whistle on the health care industry. His change of heart came from witnessing a travelling health clinic overwhelmed by people coming from 3 different states to be stationed on lawns, fields and in trolleys in order to receive even the most basic health care.
If you want to believe everybody in America is A-OK on health care, go there and get a major illness. Don't hope for OHIP though...
If you want to believe everybody in America is A-OK on health care, go there and get a major illness. Don't hope for OHIP though...
I was there last week and got an MRI in one day, actually the same day I went to the specialist, this was a cold call. I paid cash and got a 25% discount.
on the other hand
My wife’s friend in Toronto found out last week she has cancer, 6 weeks wait to see a specialist.
Nice system we got.
Well, an acquaintance of mine found out she had cancer. She saw the specialist the next day and had surgery to remove the tumor within 4 days. Once she recovered from the surgery, she started chemo.
She's alive and cancer-free.
It IS a nice system we've got. Don't play the fucking anecdote game; it doesn't impress anybody and it proves nothing about the aggregate.
It’s a horrible system, people are dying waiting for care.
And if you don’t like hearing true stories about what really happens in Canada I’m sure you could get a loan to fix up any ailment you got down in the states.
daveS @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:21 pm
In 2007, 6,783 patients were waiting for bariatric surgery in Canada. The wait time was just over five years, according to a report in the most recent issue of the Canadian Journal of Surgery.
At one Canadian centre — the McGill University Health Centre in Montreal — 12 patients died while on the waiting list. Researchers say the number of deaths underestimates the magnitude of the problem, because they were not actively looking to find them, and there was no formal callback of all 2,178 patients in the centre's queue as of the end of 2008.
The average age of those who died was 46.
http://www.canada.com/Health/Obese+dying+while+waiting+weight+loss+surgery/1658359/story.html
Scape @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:24 pm
Gastric bypass is elective.