"Fighting for Canada"-Diane Francis: A Few Questio

If you're turning away from text then I'm not writing for your benefit anyway, I take the time to not only read but attempt to understand other people's text, no matter how misguided I think they are, or how bad their english is. Nothing in life is simple, and short posts usually just mean an equivalent amount of thought has gone into them (unless they're a link). As for 'clerical field', well, in a way I take that as a compliment since my time is spent as a landscaper and either behind a lawn mower or digging in dirt and fertilizer-ya don't get much more 'common' than that!

Well it must be a linguistic/cultural thing Marcarc. In French education we are taught and even challenged to refrain from overflowing in our discourse. The shorter to make your point, the better.

You might call it overflowing, others may call it information. I doubt it's a cultural thing, I've read a lot of french academic writing, novels, TV, and I've seen an awful lot of 'droning on at the mouth'<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'><img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> (I want to make sure everybody knows that's a joke, there is no cultural dismissiveness there, the french can be as long winded as the english is my point). I typically have more than one point to make, I read a lot, and if it's factual information that I think it's important for others to know, I work it in. Compared to what I read I am remarkably restrained. That's an element of 'style' and I'm not going to apologize for it, by all means feel free to skip my posts altogether. There have been many other francophones on here in the past, many with far longer posts than mine- personally, if it's interesting information then I welcome it, particularly from those who aren't from southern ontario and have something different to say. This would be a very dull place if everybody wrote the same way-diversity makes the world an interesting place. I'm glad we're leaving this thread with far less animosity than it's shown in the past, that's typically why I keep responding, I've often found that once people accept the other's 'style' and understand at least what they're trying to say, then they get along better. That sounds preachy, but it's from experience in a lot of threads. Since there are no more points on Diane Francis (and I don't think she deserves any more<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> or on Oka, I'll consider this thread closed (anybody else can keep it going though)

Yeah, guess I should also clarify that no cultural discrimination was implied and that it's especially true of repetitiveness. I sure am relieved we can finally drop the topic.

Concerning the amount of words in posts, it is quality not quantity that matters, IMO, unless one is looking for a license to ramble wordily. Which is not to say that brevity is the "be all, end all" of communications, modern media sound bites dispel that notion rather quickly. Life is complex, being precise and concise takes effort.

I forgot to say that I support the First Nations struggles against our racist, fascist, head in the sand society.

Milton I'm curious, what exactly is it that you support about "the First Nations struggles against our racist, fascist, head in the sand society"? The reason I ask is because I've come to learn that Native views on the issue are often quite different than the opinions of what Marcarc refers to as "whitey".

As a partially anglo Quebecer, the mere thought of Diance Francis and that ridiculous, 100% biased book makes me want to vomit. I had a hard time reading it because it was so off base and unfounded that I could barely get to the end of it without becoming totally enraged!!!! If you want a point by point de-mystification of the propaganda in that book I would be happy to oblige. The thing that saddened me the most was that by publishing all that nonsense the risk is that people outside of the Province will actually believe it. Diane Francis is a crack-pot who does a disservice to Canadians and particularly to Quebec Anglos with her constant biased BS.

If you feel like extrapoliting, or offering a review of the book then feel free-if you have the time or inclination. Especially if you think it would further debate on the issues. I don't bother reading much of her anymore, and it would be better to read a second hand account than her own.

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] If you feel like extrapoliting, or offering a review of the book then feel free-if you have the time or inclination. Especially if you think it would further debate on the issues. I don't bother reading much of her anymore, and it would be better to read a second hand account than her own.[/QUOTE] My take on the Francis book is that she got cozy with a fringe but of anglo-québec lunatics and took it upon herself to fight for anglo Quebec without actually getting to know the community at all. Look, Alliance Québec only survived as long as it did because guilt-ridden anglo ROC felt the need to support the anglo-Québec community. I read a survey that said that only 3% of young anglos feel that AQ represents their interest. Wow what a surprise. It is kind of like franco ontariens being represented by the MLNQ!! All this bullshit about anglo-Québec discrimination. Give me a break. Yes anglos are disdained (pour les francosphones ...méprisés?), there is no question, but to say discriminated against is going too far. The best thing that Canada can do for anglo Quebec is teach them french. It is the only thing that will keep the community alive because there is no way a young anglo can succeed as a unilingual in QC. Sadly, there is a lack of balance reporting in the English media in the ROC. They would be better off having a sovereignist report in french and have it translated for publication. The ROC has a hard time getting past the sovereignest = traitor equation long enough to listen to what they are saying. They are not all crackpots!!!!!

It is unfortunate. Even here we see it all the time even though most here admit to having serious problems with Canada. I've heard some say we need a stronger federal government, but then when you say 'so you want Paul Martin to have more control over the provinces?' or Steve Harper then there's usually a pause. The worst thing about it is that it is rarely discussed in detail, which means the worst case scenarios may very well be likely with such animosity. There used to be a guy here who was very pro-sovereignty, so much so that he had some pretty kooky ideas (at least to me) but I kind of miss him, he certainly kept things lively.

[QUOTE by: lachapelle] All this bullshit about anglo-Québec discrimination. Give me a break. Yes anglos are disdained (pour les francosphones ...méprisés?), there is no question, but to say discriminated against is going too far.[/QUOTE] Mmmm...Was it not René Levesque who suggested that Québec should be as French as Ontario is English? Therefore, it is only logical that I, a taxpaying allophone in Quebec, have the right to be as English as my neighbor is French? Then why the need for absurd protectionist xenophobic language laws that obstruct and violate one's basic right to express themselves in a language of their choosing. From the "DISDAIN" (Hence: hatred, scorn, hold in contempt, ad nauseam (For what may I ask?)) you feel, comes forth discrimination. It is a natural course of action. Funny thing happened tonight…Drove out to CANADIAN TIRE to get some wrenches. Struggled to get service in English (What are the chances of that happening). While paying for the articles, it occurred to me that the Canadian money I held in my hand has English prominently printed all over it...I look at the cashier and ask (In English): "Will you accept this money? It's English is as prominent as the French." "Are you not threatened or offended?" "Wanna call the Language Police?" To which she replied: "Qua?"

Part of the language laws are no doubt to send a message and it CAN be argued that it goes to far. However, we have to remember that up until the quiet revolution Quebec was controlled by an english minority, which means that it will be some time before trust is given to that quarter. There is nothing barring your 'free expression' though, if you are talking to somebody on the street in english nobody is going to arrest you. However, being served in a store is something different, but I don't personally see why a private company should be forced to staff with english just because some think they should. When in Dublin there were a lot of stores where the help only spoke irish. You make do, or you learn the language. The sign law is something else, however, that's far from 'free expression'. I can't stick a sign on my house that says ANYTHING without government approval. When the goverment starts arresting you for speaking english, then we can talk about rights. It may be xenophobic, but then, have you met the rest of Canada? One thing that would be interesting, are the stores actually called "Canadian Tire" or the french equivalent?

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Part of the language laws are no doubt to send a message and it CAN be argued that it goes to far. However, we have to remember that up until the quiet revolution Quebec was controlled by an english minority, which means that it will be some time before trust is given to that quarter. There is nothing barring your 'free expression' though, if you are talking to somebody on the street in english nobody is going to arrest you. However, being served in a store is something different, but I don't personally see why a private company should be forced to staff with english just because some think they should. When in Dublin there were a lot of stores where the help only spoke irish. You make do, or you learn the language. The sign law is something else, however, that's far from 'free expression'. I can't stick a sign on my house that says ANYTHING without government approval. When the goverment starts arresting you for speaking english, then we can talk about rights. It may be xenophobic, but then, have you met the rest of Canada? One thing that would be interesting, are the stores actually called "Canadian Tire" or the french equivalent?[/QUOTE] They are called Canadian Tire across the country. Some other businesses such as Bureau en Gros are translations of the english name. I agree with your comment on the pre-Quiet revolution status of the english minority. hoever, this status has changed and public perception among francophones has not. My unilingual francophone family outside Montreal still has a perception of anglo-quebeckers as being rich uniligual businesspeople out to anglicize Québec. Part of the political dynamic in Quebec is driven by the significant difference between Montreal and the rest of Québec. THere really aren't many anglos outside Montr.al so it is easy for people to have stereotypes of what they are. It is the same thing with the Diance Francises in Canada. They are willing to believe that francophone quebeckers are xenophobic and tribalistic language nuts. It is simply not true. If you avoid reading the bullshit in both the english and the french press but especially the english press, the real life interactions between anglophones and francophones are harmonious. What english-speakers in the ROC have to be aaware of is that they are getting a biased view of what is happening here in québec. I spent five years in Toronto and always marvelled and who little understood the situation in Quebec is. Due to the language barriers, english speakers don't get the chance to read what french journalists are saying. My point is that Diance is on a witch hunt and does not present a balanced view of the political situation here. Not only that, she ridicules anglo-Quebec groups that disagree with her. Now that's balanced reporting!

Another point that should be made is that language laws were made by the governmeent, and Quebec is not THAT dissimilar than english canada that they agree with everything that their government does. It IS unfortunate that these things take time to fade, another thread had a commentor berating natives for not trusting him just because he's white. While HE may not be oppressing natives, that's the price that's paid for being part of a particular culture in a particular place. It is unfortunate, but life's not fair.