British lions come up lambs in Woolwich - Mark Steyn
ShepherdsDog @ Sat May 25, 2013 8:00 am
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/349308/slaughter
$1:
If you’re thinking of getting steamed over all that, don’t. Simon Jenkins, the former editor of the Times of London, cautioned against “mass hysteria” over “mundane acts of violence.”
That’s easy for him to say. Woolwich is an unfashionable part of town, and Sir Simon is unlikely to find himself there of an afternoon stroll. Drummer Rigby had less choice in the matter. Being jumped by barbarians with machetes is certainly “mundane” in Somalia and Sudan, but it’s the sort of thing that would once have been considered somewhat unusual on a sunny afternoon in south London — at least as unusual as, say, blowing up eight-year-old boys at the Boston Marathon. It was “mundane” only in the sense that, as at weddings and kindergarten concerts, the reflexive reaction of everybody present was to get out their cell phones and start filming.
This passivity set the tone for what followed. In London as in Boston, the politico-media class immediately lapsed into the pneumatic multiculti Tourette’s that seems to be a chronic side effect of excess diversity-celebrating: No Islam to see here, nothing to do with Islam, all these body parts in the street are a deplorable misinterpretation of Islam. The BBC’s Nick Robinson accidentally described the men as being “of Muslim appearance,” but quickly walked it back lest impressionable types get the idea that there’s anything “of Muslim appearance” about a guy waving a machete and saying “Allahu akbar.” A man is on TV dripping blood in front of a dead British soldier and swearing “by Almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you,” yet it’s the BBC reporter who’s apologizing for “causing offence.” To David Cameron, Drummer Rigby’s horrific end was “not just an attack on Britain and on the British way of life, it was also a betrayal of Islam. . . . There is nothing in Islam that justifies this truly dreadful act.”
That’s easy for him to say. Woolwich is an unfashionable part of town, and Sir Simon is unlikely to find himself there of an afternoon stroll. Drummer Rigby had less choice in the matter. Being jumped by barbarians with machetes is certainly “mundane” in Somalia and Sudan, but it’s the sort of thing that would once have been considered somewhat unusual on a sunny afternoon in south London — at least as unusual as, say, blowing up eight-year-old boys at the Boston Marathon. It was “mundane” only in the sense that, as at weddings and kindergarten concerts, the reflexive reaction of everybody present was to get out their cell phones and start filming.
This passivity set the tone for what followed. In London as in Boston, the politico-media class immediately lapsed into the pneumatic multiculti Tourette’s that seems to be a chronic side effect of excess diversity-celebrating: No Islam to see here, nothing to do with Islam, all these body parts in the street are a deplorable misinterpretation of Islam. The BBC’s Nick Robinson accidentally described the men as being “of Muslim appearance,” but quickly walked it back lest impressionable types get the idea that there’s anything “of Muslim appearance” about a guy waving a machete and saying “Allahu akbar.” A man is on TV dripping blood in front of a dead British soldier and swearing “by Almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you,” yet it’s the BBC reporter who’s apologizing for “causing offence.” To David Cameron, Drummer Rigby’s horrific end was “not just an attack on Britain and on the British way of life, it was also a betrayal of Islam. . . . There is nothing in Islam that justifies this truly dreadful act.”
2Cdo @ Sat May 25, 2013 8:26 am
Unfortunately the UK has lost the will to fight for what's right. We're heading the same way unless we smarten up. 
Gunnair @ Sat May 25, 2013 9:11 am
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Unfortunately the UK has lost the will to fight for what's right. We're heading the same way unless we smarten up.
I don't think we've see any real indications of that.
andyt @ Sat May 25, 2013 9:59 am
Somewhere between the raving on this form and what Steyn is describing lies sanity. Summary execution won't stop these attacks. Expelling all Muslims, the way Shep wants to do, probably not a good idea. But bending over backwards too far isn't a good idea either.
We haven't had too much of this because our Muslim immigration hasn't been that big. But we sure do seem to like to take in large numbers of people all from the same region. In the 70's it seemed to be Sikhs, in the 80's Hong Kongers, now it's Filipinos and so on. Then they cluster together and try to recreat their homeland here. Can you imagine if Richmond was settled by Muslims all from the same region. We should be limiting immigration by region. I wouldn't want a huge cluster of white Brits coming here again, calling us colonials and trying to foist their God awful food on us. But admittedly better than if Richmond became known as little Somalia.
martin14 @ Sat May 25, 2013 10:16 am
Gunnair Gunnair:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Unfortunately the UK has lost the will to fight for what's right. We're heading the same way unless we smarten up.
I don't think we've see any real indications of that.
Of course we have.
No public official dares to even breathe anything anti-Muslim, or will
get immediately shouted down and branded racist.
Even people in public, when the subject comes up, lower their voices,
almost in fear of someone else hearing it.
It's no problem to carry banners openly supporting Hezbollah.
We regularly get the same dose of ' it has nothing to do with Islam ' bullshit
that they get in Europe.
The signs are all around.
ShepherdsDog @ Sat May 25, 2013 10:22 am
$1:
Expelling all Muslims, the way Shep wants to do, probably not a good idea.
Where did I say all Muslims? Not even the EDL is calling for that. Trouble makers and those that refuse to assimilate into a secular society, yes expulsion is what is needed
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Sat May 25, 2013 10:45 am
I dunno about the "British Lion" but the British bulldog performed an act of self-neutering years ago.
andyt @ Sat May 25, 2013 10:59 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
$1:
Expelling all Muslims, the way Shep wants to do, probably not a good idea.
Where did I say all Muslims? Not even the EDL is calling for that. Trouble makers and those that refuse to assimilate into a secular society, yes expulsion is what is needed
And what sort of system will you have to determine this. Make a law against not integrating? How will you determine that? Is a Chinese who can't speak English sufficiently integrated? Trouble makers - we already have laws on the books for expelling non citizen convicts. We should be tougher on kicking out those who have been convicted, but almost all of them are petty criminals, not jihadis. And many are refugees, puts us in a bit of a pickle, tho I think we should be tougher there too. And, these shits in Britain were probably citizens, maybe born there - can't kick them out. Your solution isn't much of one.
One thing we need is to be tougher on religious leaders (or anybody) that calls for violence. To me that would be good grounds for deportation of possible. But the main thing we need to do is what the cops have started doing in Canada - building bridges with the Muslims because they aint going anywhere. That's how the Via train guys got caught. All this hate on this forum and summary execution and expulsion stuff (why not just say deportation if that's what you meant?) isn't helping there. And yes, we do need to grow a pain and call a spade a spade when required - just don't call everybody a spade the way it's so easy to do.
raydan @ Sat May 25, 2013 11:16 am
Starting to like how the UAE grants citizenship. 
Gunnair @ Sat May 25, 2013 11:30 am
martin14 martin14:
Gunnair Gunnair:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Unfortunately the UK has lost the will to fight for what's right. We're heading the same way unless we smarten up.
I don't think we've see any real indications of that.
Of course we have.
No public official dares to even breathe anything anti-Muslim, or will
get immediately shouted down and branded racist.
Even people in public, when the subject comes up, lower their voices,
almost in fear of someone else hearing it.
It's no problem to carry banners openly supporting Hezbollah.
We regularly get the same dose of ' it has nothing to do with Islam ' bullshit
that they get in Europe.
The signs are all around.
No they're not. PC covers every one not just Muslims. The only thing we currently suffer from is the whispered voices of paranoia. Just another instance of the media whipping people up into a frenzy. Frankly, you're no different than the parents terrified in letting their children go play without a platoon of adults with 911 tapped into their smart phones and their fingers hovering above the call button.
N_Fiddledog @ Sat May 25, 2013 11:50 am
andyt andyt:
And what sort of system will you have to determine this. Make a law against not integrating? How will you determine that? Is a Chinese who can't speak English sufficiently integrated? Trouble makers - we already have laws on the books for expelling non citizen convicts. We should be tougher on kicking out those who have been convicted, but almost all of them are petty criminals, not jihadis. And many are refugees, puts us in a bit of a pickle, tho I think we should be tougher there too. And, these shits in Britain were probably citizens, maybe born there - can't kick them out. Your solution isn't much of one.
One thing we need is to be tougher on religious leaders (or anybody) that calls for violence. To me that would be good grounds for deportation of possible. But the main thing we need to do is what the cops have started doing in Canada - building bridges with the Muslims because they aint going anywhere. That's how the Via train guys got caught. All this hate on this forum and summary execution and expulsion stuff (why not just say deportation if that's what you meant?) isn't helping there. And yes, we do need to grow a pain and call a spade a spade when required - just don't call everybody a spade the way it's so easy to do.
One thing we need is to be tougher on religious leaders (or anybody) that calls for violence. To me that would be good grounds for deportation of possible. But the main thing we need to do is what the cops have started doing in Canada - building bridges with the Muslims because they aint going anywhere. That's how the Via train guys got caught. All this hate on this forum and summary execution and expulsion stuff (why not just say deportation if that's what you meant?) isn't helping there. And yes, we do need to grow a pain and call a spade a spade when required - just don't call everybody a spade the way it's so easy to do.
I kind of agree, and disagree.
I think it's a mistake to conflate the issue in Europe with the problem as it currently exists in North America.
In Europe it's gone too far. Something radical is required there. Eventually they're going to have to evict or die.
In Canada we're still in a spot where we can retain our values without being destroyed by those who would use them against us while they attack with stealth Jihad.
Nevertheless something is required so we don't find ourselves in the same spot Europe is sitting now somewhere down the line.
Something like immigrants sign a legal pact specifically damning specific organizations or their like, also specific ideologies attacking anti-western thought such as Sharia, and violent Jihad anywhere before they're considered for citizenship here. They agree if they get caught breaking the agreement any time in the future they're gone, and here if you like you can consider your word summarily.
Religious callings for violence, or criminality in Madrassas need to be halted. There are four studies out in America showing radicalism being taught in 80% of Madrassas there. Most likely it's similar here. Radicalization by Immans in Prisons and zealot profs, or visiting morons in Universities has to be stopped. Stuff like all this should be done here before we find ourselves in the spot Europe is in now.
Thanos @ Sat May 25, 2013 12:12 pm
Steyn is generally correct with this one. I'm just glad he managed to write a whole column without blaming the entire horrid incident on President Obama..
One of the huge background problems when a terrorist mentality afflicts a state is that an overly liberal approach to rights creates a situation where not a lot can be done to fix it. The Woolwich terrorists are members of an infamous mosque that preaches violent jihad, specifically calls for the death of British soldiers overseas, sponsors terrorism elsewhere, openly celebrates terrorist attacks when they occur, and calls for sharia law to be implemented all over Britain. The absolutely horrible British courts, that are so wretchedly politically correct that they manage to make the squishiest liberal Canadian judge look like Judge Roy Bean in comparison, have ensured that no legal sanctions can be brought against the members and imams of this mosque. David Cameron is so disgustingly weak on law and order, and so utterly terrified of being called a racist by the media, that he'll make no effort to arrest these scum or try to deport them. Britain and Europe are so obsessed with the most liberal interpretation of rights that they've brought their entire civilization into what Robert Jackson probably would have called a legal suicide pact.
A couple of years ago the Pakistani military was brought in to basically exterminate a radical mosque that had gotten too violent for even the Islamists that control Pakistan to tolerate. In contrast Western courts and politicians fall all over to ensure that the rights of those that want to overthrow our civilization are protected as the primary priority. This is one of those things that illustrates that the mindset that protects terrorists is even sicker than the terrorists themselves, and that other Islamists can be counted on to to take a harder line against their own fellow psychopathic travellers than our governments and courts will.
martin14 @ Sat May 25, 2013 12:22 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
martin14 martin14:
Gunnair Gunnair:
I don't think we've see any real indications of that.
Of course we have.
No public official dares to even breathe anything anti-Muslim, or will
get immediately shouted down and branded racist.
Even people in public, when the subject comes up, lower their voices,
almost in fear of someone else hearing it.
It's no problem to carry banners openly supporting Hezbollah.
We regularly get the same dose of ' it has nothing to do with Islam ' bullshit
that they get in Europe.
The signs are all around.
No they're not. PC covers every one not just Muslims.
So what ? Muslims are still covered.
$1:
The only thing we currently suffer from is the whispered voices of paranoia. Just another instance of the media whipping people up into a frenzy.
If anything, the media is on a calculated campaign to suppress this as much
as possible.
$1:
Frankly, you're no different than the parents terrified in letting their children go play without a platoon of adults with 911 tapped into their smart phones and their fingers hovering above the call button.
Well, I dont know what happened to you to you turn on your fucking asshole mode
on so early, but whatever you like.
Zipperfish @ Sat May 25, 2013 2:21 pm
I suppose Steyn would have preferred if Cameron had have said "Everyone go out and find a Muslim to throttle?" It may not be the liberal multi-cultural tendency at play, as much as trying to stop race riots, which will make the situation worse.
andyt @ Sat May 25, 2013 2:31 pm
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
I kind of agree, and disagree.
I think it's a mistake to conflate the issue in Europe with the problem as it currently exists in North America.
In Europe it's gone too far. Something radical is required there. Eventually they're going to have to evict or die.
In Canada we're still in a spot where we can retain our values without being destroyed by those who would use them against us while they attack with stealth Jihad.
Nevertheless something is required so we don't find ourselves in the same spot Europe is sitting now somewhere down the line.
Something like immigrants sign a legal pact specifically damning specific organizations or their like, also specific ideologies attacking anti-western thought such as Sharia, and violent Jihad anywhere before they're considered for citizenship here. They agree if they get caught breaking the agreement any time in the future they're gone, and here if you like you can consider your word summarily.
Religious callings for violence, or criminality in Madrassas need to be halted. There are four studies out in America showing radicalism being taught in 80% of Madrassas there. Most likely it's similar here. Radicalization by Immans in Prisons and zealot profs, or visiting morons in Universities has to be stopped. Stuff like all this should be done here before we find ourselves in the spot Europe is in now.
I think it's a mistake to conflate the issue in Europe with the problem as it currently exists in North America.
In Europe it's gone too far. Something radical is required there. Eventually they're going to have to evict or die.
In Canada we're still in a spot where we can retain our values without being destroyed by those who would use them against us while they attack with stealth Jihad.
Nevertheless something is required so we don't find ourselves in the same spot Europe is sitting now somewhere down the line.
Something like immigrants sign a legal pact specifically damning specific organizations or their like, also specific ideologies attacking anti-western thought such as Sharia, and violent Jihad anywhere before they're considered for citizenship here. They agree if they get caught breaking the agreement any time in the future they're gone, and here if you like you can consider your word summarily.
Religious callings for violence, or criminality in Madrassas need to be halted. There are four studies out in America showing radicalism being taught in 80% of Madrassas there. Most likely it's similar here. Radicalization by Immans in Prisons and zealot profs, or visiting morons in Universities has to be stopped. Stuff like all this should be done here before we find ourselves in the spot Europe is in now.
Are we going to make the Hassidic Jews sign a paper they won't follow their beliefs in regard to women and won't try to set up religious courts? Seems to me in a free society, people are allowed to advocate for just about anything that doesn't involve violence or crime. Doesn't mean we have to give it to them, and that's where growing a pair comes in. Signing a paper that disavows violence, fine, but that won't catch the ones born here. And violence is already illegal.
I think where we can be tougher is in having police in churches, mosques, temples, etc. Ones that speak the language. It does get kinda police staty tho, and lots of perfectly peaceful groups won't like it. But yes, I think we can act more forcefully when it comes out that somebody is advocating violence. And that includes them advocating harming our soldiers in another country. And, much as I hate them, maybe we could pursue our hate speech laws more assiduously, and apply them to people other than white men. Might catch a few Israel supporters in regard to Palestinians/Muslims in that net tho.