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http://www.salon.com/2016/09/11/the-end ... m-of-isis/

the 911 plotters got what they wanted

   

The powder keg of ISIS was always there 9/11 lit the fuse.

   

Without clicking the link I can say you could also connect to the Arab Spring as giving rise to ISIS.

You could go farther back than that and say no it was the Afghan rebellion against the USSR that gave rise to Al Qaida.

Or go back farther still to Al Banna and the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Really though, you'd have to keep going all the way back to when the Meccans kicked Mohammed out of Mecca. He went to Medina and discovered Jihad.

The world has been at war with the Jihad of Islam ever since.

   

Yeah but Delwin wants to know about the morality of the war.

   

Well guys like him, BeaverFever and Andy treat anything said by muslims as gospel and anything said by Christians and right-wing politicians as nothing but lies. Thus we are the immoral ones and they'd side with islam.

   

Do you ever pull your head out of your ass?

Just curious.

   

Of course they did. Bush's response is exactly what they were hoping for and we all said it at the time. For the same reason, ISIS has said they want Trump to be president.

   

Anyone who hasn't recanted their support for the Iraq invasion by now and is still unable to admit that toppling Saddam was the catastrophe that set the stage for ISIS probably shouldn't be listened to very much. It was the original sin for the region that all the other poisons have been born out of since.

   

This all depends on what you're talking about, specifically.

If you are saying the specific thing called ISIS was largely spawned out of the political chaos of Iraq after Saddam, well sure, but if you're saying only Iraq was seasoning that soup, nope, that's not exactly it.

More importantly, if you're expressing certainty that nothing like an Islamic state could have been possible without the American misadventures in Iraq, or only ISIS was ever going behave as the original Mohammed did in the environment following the Arab Spring, or no group or leader would ever call for a Caliphate, well then it's you that shouldn't be listened to.

   

Disastrous policy in Vietnam ended up destroying Cambodia. Disastrous policy in Iraq ends up destroying Syria. Domino-effect theory entering into reality. Except it's the reverse of what it was originally described as. Instead of victories for communism in south-east Asia or jihadism in Muslim countries the US choosing a state to beat into the stone age results in one of the targeted countries' neighbours also turning into a nightmare. Hiding behind the usual "look how good and decent and great we are trying to help the unenlightened locals!" said locals end up living through a friggin' completely avoidable catastrophe in their own front yards thanks to that American "help".

   

Do you remember Glenn Beck getting trashed for predicting a drive for an Islamic Caliphate (or State) during the Arab Spring?



In case you didn't click, the video is from back in 2011. Beck says, "It is not about Freedom. It is not about Democracy. It is about an Islamic State."

This was before ISIS was a thing.

He got mocked for that worse than Infowars just did for predicting Hillary Clinton's health problems.

In both cases all they both did was notice the obvious.

   

Who, except the liberal types, ever denied that the jihadists want to build a caliphate?

What would your response to the Status of Forces Agreement that the (Potemkin) Iraqi government insisted on, that the US get out as per the agreed schedule? Tell them no because you think something something is going to happen after they left? Do you think more American dead and more American money spent to defend a worthless Iraqi government and an indifferent-to-hostile Iraqi population would have been worth it?

   

I don't know. I was away from CKA at the time Beck was being maligned for predicting an Islamic State.

You tell me. Who was doing it here?

It was being done all over the media and the internet.

From 2014:



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06 ... ed-on-cnn/

   

Now it is true Beck was predicting an Islamic State being birthed out of the complexities of the Arab Spring not Iraq, but that's my point. You didn't need Iraq to see a call or move for an Islamic State coming.

   

Also, I know you want to go here, but I don't.



I'd be diverting from my point. I'll only say, I agree with Bill.

   

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