Advice to Native people from Joe Whitey AKA Bodah
Virgil @ Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:47 pm
kevlarman kevlarman:
Virgil Virgil:
Once we clean up OUR system of governance? Pardon me, correct me if I'm wrong, my apologies and all that bullocks, but isn't the Indian Act, you know, the one that gives the Chiefs and Councillors ridiculous control over band affairs with little checks and balances, YOUR style of governement that YOU imposed on US?
We have been trying to re attain self governement and re establishment of traditional systems for a long time, and in traditional systems power resided in popular support and genorosity, even in the only semi democratic nations like the ones of B.C.. The Chief (wich is a ridiculously dumb and general word any how, you might as well label all White leaders as Presidents given the sense of it) 's power foundation was the respect of his nation, a Chief could not act in ways that would benefit only himself, or he would be effectively removed from his position. This is the way it should be not only on reserves, but with governements all over.
That's not to say that it's the "White man's" fault that we live as we do, but it is the governement's, and we are owed compensation for that wich has not already been paid, or what has not been paid that is recognized by treaty.
I do how ever, support your commendation of the Conservative governement for their expression of will to establish a new system for dealing with land claims, though I see it as a political moves as Metis rights are still largely ignored by the governement, as is the yet unresolved Lubicon issue.
We have been trying to re attain self governement and re establishment of traditional systems for a long time, and in traditional systems power resided in popular support and genorosity, even in the only semi democratic nations like the ones of B.C.. The Chief (wich is a ridiculously dumb and general word any how, you might as well label all White leaders as Presidents given the sense of it) 's power foundation was the respect of his nation, a Chief could not act in ways that would benefit only himself, or he would be effectively removed from his position. This is the way it should be not only on reserves, but with governements all over.
That's not to say that it's the "White man's" fault that we live as we do, but it is the governement's, and we are owed compensation for that wich has not already been paid, or what has not been paid that is recognized by treaty.
I do how ever, support your commendation of the Conservative governement for their expression of will to establish a new system for dealing with land claims, though I see it as a political moves as Metis rights are still largely ignored by the governement, as is the yet unresolved Lubicon issue.
I do not support the past government's (as well as the one's before) decision to drag their ass on land claims settlements. It only does the following...
a.) breed ill will on all sides
b.) endlessly drag on a vital issue that needs to be decided upon
c.) increase the liklihood that this issue will never be dealt with.
d.) and keep us from integrating SOME of the native people's culture into our Canadian society AS WELL as keep you from integrating SOME of our culture us into yours. There are good aspects of both sides that could be shared but aren't because of the constant ass-dragging.
But those chiefs and those tribal councils, if they are NOT what you want you have to use the same damn weapon on them as you do against the government, the media. Roast them bastards in the court of public opinion and I know it can work. Look how badly the media treated Ahenikue (spelling?) from the Meadow Lake tribal council and Chief Gopher from Saulteux when it was found out that they were pissing away government money and rewarding only their own with new trucks, free education and trips to Las Vegas. I wish the media would've really fried those guys but they didn't they only went at them half-assed. Now just imagine what would happen if there was a co-ordinated effort to go after them. AND to go after the non-native government officials that were helping them. Natives in Saskatchewan vote, and the governement knows this, you should use it to your advantage like the old people / retiree's use that down here in the USA.
As I mentioned, the Band Council system was put in to place by the governement, and the Native people have little power to change it. Traditional system supporters who are on Band Council have been powerless in the past when fighting governement and the Indian act because all of the strings are held by the governement; the funding for fighting the governement is coming from the governement. Most average Indians are also powerless to fight the corruption in the Band Council system. The Mohawk how ever, have had a great deal of success fighting both the Indian Act and Band Council corruption, but they also recieve assistance from the other Five Nations in the United States, and have already enjoyed a great deal more sovereignety and respect in Canada than most other First Nations here: they have benefitted from it in their nationalisme, retention of identity, and most of all organization. Most other First Nations don't have these benefits, and their cousins the Metis are even worse off in this manner. To fight our own "municipal extensions of the bureaucracy" as well as the Federal governement would set up a war on two fronts and be extremely demanding on our educated population. It's even harder that our peoples face such diverse issues that it make it extremely difficult to fight governement from a united front, and the Mohawk refuse even to vote in provincial or federal elections.
I do how ever agree that the corruption should be fought by Aboriginal people; I the solution to be is a mass movement among our Aboriginal peoples to return to traditional systems, resolve treaties, resolve land claims (Lubicon Lake Cree Nation for example), preserve traditional cultures, and to keep these four points as our primary focus. From there we can determine how each point relates to the other, and begin working towards more focused solutions to corruption, and methods to bring about justice for our peoples.
ShepherdsDog @ Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:53 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
kevlarman kevlarman:
Please quit blaming other races for your own faults...
Your right, you whitefolk have a patent on that. THe Asians, Blacks, Musulms, us Indians, all out to get the whiteman....must be nice to be so perfect and white.
actually out of all the ethnic groups mentioned the amerinds are the only ones who hold to the paranoid delusion about someoneone out to get them.
DangerMouse @ Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:49 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
kevlarman kevlarman:
Please quit blaming other races for your own faults...
Your right, you whitefolk have a patent on that. THe Asians, Blacks, Musulms, us Indians, all out to get the whiteman....must be nice to be so perfect and white.
actually out of all the ethnic groups mentioned the amerinds are the only ones who hold to the paranoid delusion about someoneone out to get them.
[font=Comic Sans MS] That's crap! What about all the paranoia after 911? [/font]
RUEZ @ Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:52 pm
DangerMouse DangerMouse:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
kevlarman kevlarman:
Please quit blaming other races for your own faults...
Your right, you whitefolk have a patent on that. THe Asians, Blacks, Musulms, us Indians, all out to get the whiteman....must be nice to be so perfect and white.
actually out of all the ethnic groups mentioned the amerinds are the only ones who hold to the paranoid delusion about someoneone out to get them.
[font=Comic Sans MS] That's crap! What about all the paranoia after 911? [/font]
GerryHurt @ Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:10 pm
RUEZ RUEZ:
DangerMouse DangerMouse:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
kevlarman kevlarman:
Please quit blaming other races for your own faults...
Your right, you whitefolk have a patent on that. THe Asians, Blacks, Musulms, us Indians, all out to get the whiteman....must be nice to be so perfect and white.
actually out of all the ethnic groups mentioned the amerinds are the only ones who hold to the paranoid delusion about someoneone out to get them.
[font=Comic Sans MS] That's crap! What about all the paranoia after 911? [/font]
Paranoia..... and it's still running rampant.
RUEZ @ Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:20 pm
GerryHurt GerryHurt:
RUEZ RUEZ:
DangerMouse DangerMouse:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
kevlarman kevlarman:
Please quit blaming other races for your own faults...
Your right, you whitefolk have a patent on that. THe Asians, Blacks, Musulms, us Indians, all out to get the whiteman....must be nice to be so perfect and white.
actually out of all the ethnic groups mentioned the amerinds are the only ones who hold to the paranoid delusion about someoneone out to get them.
[font=Comic Sans MS] That's crap! What about all the paranoia after 911? [/font]
Paranoia..... and it's still running rampant.
Donny_Brasco @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:52 am
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Donny when the majority of you're own people won't make the effort to find any work how is this going to happen?
Actually the majority of the Aboriginal working age population have jobs.
saturn_656 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:05 am
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Actually the majority of the Aboriginal working population have jobs.
Awesome wording, the majority of the working population have jobs...
Donny_Brasco @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:08 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
kevlarman kevlarman:
Please quit blaming other races for your own faults...
Your right, you whitefolk have a patent on that. THe Asians, Blacks, Musulms, us Indians, all out to get the whiteman....must be nice to be so perfect and white.
actually out of all the ethnic groups mentioned the amerinds are the only ones who hold to the paranoid delusion about someoneone out to get them.
Ya, that explains why the Americans spent a trillion dollars invading Iraq and why Canada has troops in Afganistan.
What is going on there besides parinoia? Are we spreading "freedom"? Every tried to travel internationally lately. Thats PARINIOA.
You stealing your land and trying to tell us how to live our lives...thats reality.
Donny_Brasco @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:11 am
saturn_656 saturn_656:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Actually the majority of the Aboriginal working population have jobs.
Awesome wording, the majority of the working population have jobs...
Sorry, I mean "working age population".
DangerMouse @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:29 am
[font=Comic Sans MS] So when you think about it looking at history carefully, one can see that aboriginal people have been subject to terrorism within their own country. Small pox blankets=bio-terrorism. Foreign invaders committing acts of arson. land squatting, murder and rape of women and children--all so the invaders can have land. No wonder we had to lie in our historybooks and make it look as though we helped the indians out but in reality we were terrorists ourselves. [/font]
Virgil @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:23 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
kevlarman kevlarman:
Please quit blaming other races for your own faults...
Your right, you whitefolk have a patent on that. THe Asians, Blacks, Musulms, us Indians, all out to get the whiteman....must be nice to be so perfect and white.
actually out of all the ethnic groups mentioned the amerinds are the only ones who hold to the paranoid delusion about someoneone out to get them.
May be Indians are the only ones to realize it, but lets look at the anti immigrant sentiments in Europe: in France, in Austria, Holland, even England; in Toronto even.
And may be if Westerners would quit messing around in every one else's business terrorisme wouldn't be such a problem. Do Westerners honestly believe that they can imperialize democracy? that they can go out and conquer a place, and impose democracy on it? Only the people them selves can fixe those things, they have to have their own democratic movements, and while they can be aided by Westerners, they can't be initiated by Westerners.
Mustang1 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:01 am
DangerMouse DangerMouse:
[font=Comic Sans MS] So when you think about it looking at history carefully, one can see that aboriginal people have been subject to terrorism within their own country. Small pox blankets=bio-terrorism. Foreign invaders committing acts of arson. land squatting, murder and rape of women and children--all so the invaders can have land. No wonder we had to lie in our historybooks and make it look as though we helped the indians out but in reality we were terrorists ourselves. [/font]
Have you even looked at a decent Canadian history book in the last 20 years? Scholarship is pretty balanced now (including ethnostudies and achaology) and i'm not sure where these alleged lies were delberately being propogated in what history books or by what legtitimate historians, but i'd suggest you seem out of touch with recent scholarship and maybe it's time to reaquant yourself with the modern Canadian historical narrariative.
Don't worry, like many here that talk history (but don't know it) there won't be a response, but could people please stop assuming that if it's news to them, then it's news to the rest of us - it's intellectual projection at it's worst.
DangerMouse @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:48 pm
[font=Comic Sans MS]Please name some decent history books then, and/or even some quotes to show that I am mistaken? It is known that history has been written with an ethnocentric perspective totally ignoring the contributions aboriginal people made in "opening up" the country for the Europeans who came along then totally "stabbed them in the back," once they had a foothold here![/font]
Mustang1 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:47 pm
DangerMouse DangerMouse:
[font=Comic Sans MS]Please name some decent history books then, and/or even some quotes to show that I am mistaken? It is known that history has been written with an ethnocentric perspective totally ignoring the contributions aboriginal people made in "opening up" the country for the Europeans who came along then totally "stabbed them in the back," once they had a foothold here![/font]
I'm referring to books written in the last 20 years (heck, I'll even go further back). It's not my role to provide a historiographical treatment just to establish how out of touch you are with modern scholarship, but just to be sporting, I'll provide a decent secondary source list and YOU demonstrate how it is indeed ethnocentric.
1. "Defining Canada: History, Identity and Culture" Nick Brune
2."Spotlight Canada" 4th Ed. Cruxton and Wilson
3."Canada's First Nations" Olive Dickason
4."We Were Not the Savages: A Micmac Perspective on the Collision of European and Aboriginal Civilization" Daniel N. Paul
5."Tecumseh" John Sugden
6."French Presence in Huronia" B. Trigger
7."The Destruction of Huronia" G. Sioui
8."The Middle Ground" R. White
9."Canada's Subjugation of the Plains Cree, 1879-1885" J.L. Tobias
10."Horse Stealing and The Borderline: The NWMP and the Control of Indian Movement, 1874-1900"
11. "Canada: A People's History" Don Gillmore
12. "Bones: Discovering the First Americans" Elaine Dewar
Sorry, you're woefully out of date with contemporary Canadian historical narrative development - in fact, you're about 25 years behind the curve.