Should Canada Cede the island?

Now if this island was put in trust to be administered by the United States, it could be a face saving move for both Canada and Denmark.

Streaker Streaker:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Streaker Streaker:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Streaker Streaker:

We face a real challenge to our sovereignty in the North. Unfortunately, that challenge will also come from countries that are much more powerful than Denmark...

Well lets face it, US submarines have been using it like international waters for as long as they had submarines that could travel there... I don't think thats about to change, or that Canada has a sufficient navy to stop US submarines from doing so.

Logically it might make sense to come to some form of agreement which the US and Canada deem acceptable, and then both parties have a stronger hand when dealing with the rest of the world.

No cooperation whatsoever between Canada and the US regarding Northwest Passage until the US respects Canadian sovereignty.

Is this in reference to the extradition treaty (which, btw only applies when the law is in both countries, if you had legalized pot, the guy wouldn't have been extradited) or the fact that the US routinely operated submarines underneath the ice caps during the cold war?

The latter. And it wouldn't come as a shock if the US was still operating subs in Canadian waters, long after the end of the Cold War. I don't see how Canada and the US can cooperate "when dealing with the rest of the world" when the issue hasn't even been settled between Canada and the US!

Furthermore, cooperation of this sort would be yet another step towards the creation of "Fortress North America". Canada has no need to join the US in its isolation from the rest of the world! PDT_Armataz_01_33

Russian and US submarines routinely infiltrated each others waters and that was when both had massive military expenditures and quite the range of technology... Simply put unless canada starts spending money on their military they won't be able to catch them, when they do, they'll be able to catch them some of the time.

As for america being isolationist... how many troops do we have overseas? How many military operations has the US been involved in since the end of WWII? In fact, has there even been a year in which the US has not had some form of military engagement in the past 50 years? I'm not proud of this by any means, but this is hardly the actions you can expect from an isolationist country.

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Russian and US submarines routinely infiltrated each others waters and that was when both had massive military expenditures and quite the range of technology... Simply put unless canada starts spending money on their military they won't be able to catch them, when they do, they'll be able to catch them some of the time.

As for america being isolationist... how many troops do we have overseas? How many military operations has the US been involved in since the end of WWII? In fact, has there even been a year in which the US has not had some form of military engagement in the past 50 years? I'm not proud of this by any means, but this is hardly the actions you can expect from an isolationist country.

America may not be isolationist in its foreign policy, but it is well on its way to being isolated from the rest of the planet as a result of it, perhaps because it has too often taken the form of war.

The arrogance, ruthlessness and hypocrisy of US foreign policy means that an increasing number of people around the world see the US as the real "Evil Empire".

So far that's Americans' problem. There's no reason for Canada to get any further entangled in it.

Should Canada give up Hans Island to Denmark?

Great! I was hoping an American (me) could weasel his way in on this topic...

There is an concept in international law of freedom of the seas.. and there is an associated concept called "Right of Passage".

The mighty United States Navy (woo woo!) has assiduously protected freedom of seas and rights of passage.

America has always on a regular basis sailed into the Black Sea (a Russian lake) to maintain right of passage. And we have sailed into Gulf of Sidron off Libya. And you know what happened when Libya tried to challange our right of passage.. they got their tail wacked!

America regularly sails the globe going through all the passages to maintain such rights. Canadian passages are no exception. Right of Passage is good policy for everyone. Think about it. Canadian ships can freely sail the seas because America maintains order on the sea lanes.

Now if this island was put in trust to be administered by the United States, it could be a face saving move for both Canada and Denmark.

With Global Warming, the NWP is going to be an important navaigtion channel between two oceans. We can't let Canada restrict international navigation. I believe that any oil in the Arctic should go to whoever finds it and pays to extract it.

I am suggesting that unihabited Arctic areas might be international areas.

And.. if you can't defend it, don't claim it.

I am sure that there is a reasonable answer to these questions as agreed to by international law.

There are several areas, such as Malaysian Straights, where rights of passage have been maintained for the benefit of all.

Seems to me that both Canada and Denmark have bitten off more than they can chew if they want to exclusivly claim Arctic areas where they don't live. Claiming rocks is a questionable practice.

Rights of Passage is an established fact. It is only a question of maintaining it or eliminating it.

I am proud of America's defense of freedom of the seas.

When looking at the map, it is clear the Northweat Passage appears to be Canadian Territory. However, I question the entire claim of Canada over Arctic Territories that are not inhabited. Perhaps such Arctic areas should be given the Antarctic treatment of being a no-man's territory.

From a discussion of the NWP dispute:

".....In the legal impasse where Canada and the US now find themselves, Canada argues that the NWP constitutes historic waters and that its status is not based on the amount of ice in it. On the other hand, the US argues that the NWP links 2 high seas and therefore should be considered an international channel.

The other aspect of this legal debate concerns the way in which boundaries are drawn. Canada likes the approach that consists in drawing straight lines from dots on land and islands whereas the US prefers establishing boundaries by drawing an outline of the coast.

Charron warned that this dispute is not likely to be resolved on legal grounds alone, and informed us that the legal perspective favours the US. ........"

With Global Warming, the NWP is going to be an important navaigtion channel between two oceans. We can't let Canada restrict international navigation. I believe that any oil in the Arctic should go to whoever finds it and pays to extract it.

I am proud of America's defense of freedom of the seas.

When looking at the map, it is clear the Northweat Passage appears to be Canadian Territory. However, I question the entire claim of Canada over Arctic Territories that are not inhabited. Perhaps such Arctic areas should be given the Antarctic treatment of being a no-man's territory.

The other aspect of this legal debate concerns the way in which boundaries are drawn. Canada likes the approach that consists in drawing straight lines from dots on land and islands whereas the US prefers establishing boundaries by drawing an outline of the coast.

With Global Warming, the NWP is going to be an important navaigtion channel between two oceans. We can't let Canada restrict international navigation. I believe that any oil in the Arctic should go to whoever finds it and pays to extract it.

Streaker Streaker:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Russian and US submarines routinely infiltrated each others waters and that was when both had massive military expenditures and quite the range of technology... Simply put unless canada starts spending money on their military they won't be able to catch them, when they do, they'll be able to catch them some of the time.

As for america being isolationist... how many troops do we have overseas? How many military operations has the US been involved in since the end of WWII? In fact, has there even been a year in which the US has not had some form of military engagement in the past 50 years? I'm not proud of this by any means, but this is hardly the actions you can expect from an isolationist country.

America may not be isolationist in its foreign policy, but it is well on its way to being isolated from the rest of the planet as a result of it, perhaps because it has too often taken the form of war.

The arrogance, ruthlessness and hypocrisy of US foreign policy means that an increasing number of people around the world see the US as the real "Evil Empire".

So far that's Americans' problem. There's no reason for Canada to get any further entangled in it.

The US is hardly isolated, and it has an incredible number of allies across the world largely because the countries know, when it comes down to it, we're one of the few allies left in the world who will stand up for them. Honestly now, the pacific rim has a large amount of support for the US, as they are seen as the only power preventing chinese encroachment on their territory.

Similiarly I'm sure the US will be further isolated when it provides affordable, and safe housing to the third world

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?for ... ntentId=64

Yes the US has made misteps, but we are a far cry from isolationist, isolated, or anything you can claim which is to a similiar effect.

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Streaker Streaker:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Russian and US submarines routinely infiltrated each others waters and that was when both had massive military expenditures and quite the range of technology... Simply put unless canada starts spending money on their military they won't be able to catch them, when they do, they'll be able to catch them some of the time.

As for america being isolationist... how many troops do we have overseas? How many military operations has the US been involved in since the end of WWII? In fact, has there even been a year in which the US has not had some form of military engagement in the past 50 years? I'm not proud of this by any means, but this is hardly the actions you can expect from an isolationist country.

America may not be isolationist in its foreign policy, but it is well on its way to being isolated from the rest of the planet as a result of it, perhaps because it has too often taken the form of war.

The arrogance, ruthlessness and hypocrisy of US foreign policy means that an increasing number of people around the world see the US as the real "Evil Empire".

So far that's Americans' problem. There's no reason for Canada to get any further entangled in it.

The US is hardly isolated, and it has an incredible number of allies across the world largely because the countries know, when it comes down to it, we're one of the few allies left in the world who will stand up for them. Honestly now, the pacific rim has a large amount of support for the US, as they are seen as the only power preventing chinese encroachment on their territory.

Similiarly I'm sure the US will be further isolated when it provides affordable, and safe housing to the third world

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?for ... ntentId=64

Yes the US has made misteps, but we are a far cry from isolationist, isolated, or anything you can claim which is to a similiar effect.

Well I'll be! That Dubya is going to give all those third-world wretches with their starving babies homes made out of styrofoam :!:

Gosh! It turns out he's a nice guy!

I guess he'll be starting with those families who had their homes destroyed in Iraq... :roll:

Regardless, if the US isn't presently isolated it is well on its way to becoming so. Just keep rewarding people like Bush for dragging your country into morally dubious wars (and for shamelessly pandering to peoples' basest instincts) and over time America will find itself with fewer and fewer friends.

1. It's our Island and always have and always will be.
2. If we cede it to denmark, our international prestige(what little there is) will worsen and our ability to defend our national territory will ultimatly go down the drain.
3. The U.S claims it as "International" waters...why? Because the U.S doesn't give a crap what anybody else thinks.....solution? Put military outposts everywhere in the arctic(particularly the passages) and claim it.
4. Giving in to a lowly country like Denmark will disgrace us more unless we assert ourselves on the Island. Like it or leave it, it will be of benefit in the long run with the oil and other natural resources later.