State of Canadian Forces

Mario, I'm with the Sapper. I came here in 1994. The CF is still waiting for its choppers that the Liberals cancelled. I think another ten years might see some change. Until Canada sees defence as a priority nothing will change. The Liberals don't see defence as a good investment. The extra cash they just gave won't even stop the rust-out or keep pace with current commitments, never mind re-equip the CF.

In 1994, The CF were under a drastic money savings plan. In the Airforce, the Aircrafts Maintainers trades was about to be regrouped from 8 or 12 to only 3 trades (official date for trade amalgation was 97). The pay incentives were about to get frozen. In 93, the F-18s were about to get a upgrade, and it got cancelled. That upgrade is only happening now. It is almost completed and the F-18 is gonna go for another one. In the past 5 years, you can see a lot of money being put back into the CF. New ships, new vehicules (again, the one purchased from BC were crap), and new aircrafts. The Seaking replacement was finally annouced. THe Aurora is also being upgraded. In the past 4-5 years, our goverment has spent more money on the CF than the past 20. I am giving a couple years for the actual annoucement of the "YES, we are getting a medium lift helicopter". A couple more year for the selection. Once the selection over, 4 more years before that Bird is flying over Canadian soil.

I am talking about the annoucement itself, not the procurement or delivery. That always take way too long. On top of that, our goverment always finds a way to delay the actual delivery date. Unless you guys were talking about the delivery?

Mario, I can’t understand why CF procurement is so slow.
For the CF just to upgrade a radar here and there isn’t really going to do much.

The last Defence White Paper was 1994. There has been no structured Defence policy since. I think we need to be totally re-hacked and retooled. The Australians have the same size budget we do. They are a “kick ass” military with expeditionary capabilities far beyond the CF. With the same cash!

Pouring more money into the CF without a wide ranging review seems , well pointless.
The politicians are just wasting more money on the CF if we don’t restructure. Some of the contributors to this thread have some really good ideas for a future direction. It’s a pity our political masters don’t.

I’m still waiting to see the new choppers, flying on OPs or Ex's. Maybe I’ll be a granddad one day too.

Hey, Sapper, Nate, Mario, check out what the military ombusman says about the state of the CF. Interesting reading!

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSu ... 7-sun.html

Flying OPs... ya, at least a good 10 years. The Australian have a very impressive military. The key is that the Australian have a steady flow of money. Not every 20 to 30 years. Our submarines were from the 60ies. Our new ones are from the late 80ies and stayed in storage for close to 10 years. Can't really blame the Brits for our slow procurement system. For HMCS Windsor, somebody from Ottawa should pay for this. During the Campaign in Iraq (Back in 90), we had five General at any given time; the Americans had 2. And we only had a small contingent of F-18s.

Plus we suck at buying equipment. Last vehicle we purchased: we had to choice of the American Hummer or some BC Built Truck, for the same price. It is nice to buy Canadian, if the equipment is suitable for the job. Those truck are a big piece of S**t. Today, we are getting a Mercedes truck. The Griffon, Also a big piece of S**t. Can't even do what our old Twin Hueys did. Can't airlift our lightest piece of artillery. That's why we need a medium lift. The EH101 the Chrétien axed wouldn't fit on our ships.

BTW I like your Avatar. The crown is from King George’s era. Have you worked with the Snowbirds?

Mario, we will have to stop agreeing on stuff! The Avtar is 431 Sqn when it was a Lancaster unit waaay before the Snowbirds became 431 Air Demonstration Squadron . Well spotted on the crown, a lot of people wouldn't know the dif. I got it because I'm ex Air Force (ten years man and boy as they say) and it's very Canadian and harks back to a time when the RCAF was a service with a mission. I think the military works better when it has a clear role and mission. I take your point on the numerous Air and Field rank officers the CF now has. I heard we have more Generals than main battle tanks and more Admirals than ships? Is this just rumour control or a real fact?

Is the Janes site subscription only?

Stop agreeing on stuff. Ok... the Lanc sucked... The Mosquito was a far superior bomber... Just to compare to two otherwise we got nothing... B17, B29, and the others American Bombers were jokes.

You said that you were ex-CAF, what did you do?

And yes... You do have more high-ranking than equipment. Canada did need (and still does) to revamp his military, but not at the worker's level.

For Janes if you are on the DIN, I'll give you the codes.

RAF Mario, but I spent three years at CFB Goose Bay. Besides that I was on UKMAMS for 6 years. I spent a lot of time deployed with Air Command MAMS teams and did the Falklands War, Beruit, all over Africa for 18 months and a good chunk in Hong Kong, India and the Pacific, the dry bits.

The Lanc was a great bomber! The Mozzy was more a foreruner of a tactical strike aircraft. Nice looking, fast but burnt well!

You've done a lot in 10 years... With the MAMS eh... Which birds have worked on. So what did you do, load, fix, fly???

FYI, the Mosquito would burn only if you could touch it first. The biggest problem with a wooden bird, is that is doesn't preserve has well.

That article was pretty good. Better money management is required. Marin is going to have a tough job being the Ontario Ombudsman. Apparently they are looking at a retired Officer to fill the position next. Just what the troops don't need. :roll:

That BC truck that was mentioned was a copy of the IVECO (Italian) built by Western Star under license. 4 CMBG used them for years as a run-about admin vehicle. The HUMMV was never in the competition. Now we get the G-wagon. We got stuck with the Steyr 7.5 ton HLVW, when we wanted the MAN 10 ton. Don't even mention the Itlis! You think equipment is now going to get replaced in a timely manner? The record is firmly against that and unless there are significant changes in how we do business it's not likely to change. How long to replace the PRC-25 (mid 60's era) with TCCS? Over a decade. Time spent to develop a tac vest that is still not right? A decade. Updated combat uniforms? A friggin' eon. Replace the C5 GPMG? (The old Browning .30, for those who don't know) Almost a quarter of a century. It goes on and on.

The Admirals and Generals thing is rumour. but we do have alot of them. Last time I looked the Offr/OR ratio was down into 1:5, much too low!

Good news is Canada is promising over 12 billion for the Canadian Forces. I would personally like to see Canada put in alot of time and money to build our forces. Make us a strong and proud military, one the world will not laugh at. Atleast build a force capable of defending ourselves. Though we are not the typical kind of country to go to war or need to defend ourselves, it would be nice to have the forces too just incase the unthinkable happens.

12 billion is a good start to revitalize our forces, but we can do better. Come on Ottawa, build us a strong and proud army with new technology, weapons and vehicles. Pherhaps then more Canadians will be proud and eager to join our forces knowing we have capable equipment. Unlike those subs and aircrafts we have been purchasing. We have the means to build our own, let's get going!

God forbid Canada ever have to fight in a war or defend ourselves, but I would like to know we have the means too if neccessary. I want peace, but sometimes, peace isn't an option.

(Also, throw some cash to Winnipeg here so we can get a new NHL team back, lol)

Dennis
22/Manitoba

The govt. of Canada need to at least double the 13B$ to even start the retooling of the CF. Before that starts we to get some of those Generals to write a doctrine, and give the forces a sence of direction to tell us what type of force to build. I'm not saying that we build a "peace keaping force" (I absolutly believe that if we are given that mandate more soldiers will be killed on peacekeeping tours than there already are.) but what is the best and most feisable way to deploy to the rest of the world. We have 2 obvious opptions

1. We build a traditional tank and tracked armoured vehicle ARMY. which gives a great big punch, for a great big dollar. On the down side these type of armys are much slower to move, but on the up side you have the power of a tank and who can argue with that.

2. We build up as a highly deployable force, with all armoured vehicles based around a LAV 3, Coyote, or Bisson chassis and take a role in the world of a specialized force in the art of reconisence, (I know my spelling sucks) and urban (3 Block War) warfare. The up side this would you could get to anywhere in the world quickly and start the engagement, if we had a way of getting there. The down side to this is you become more vulneralbe than a thick skin tank.

Either way works but we don't have the money and the Man power as it stands. Fill up the reg force regements, get rid of the decrepid old equiptment and start from just about scrach.

The Artillery speaks loud and clear, and he is bang on. (A few puns there!) Double the cash might actually make a difference. A new White Paper is needed.