State of Canadian Forces

sapper, I did not mean any disrespect by my comment. I honestly did believe that we were heading towards a peacekeeping force. Call it nieve, or call it just from an airforce guy's point of view. I am not in the military, so I can't say I know first-hand the training that goes on. I now know that my thoughts were wrong...

I have respect for all military servicemembers, no matter what colour their headress is... [flag]

I dont care the state of the Canadian military. All I know is that the day I turn 18, im heading to the armoury and signing myself up. I lived with that idea since grade 4, and I'm in grade 9 now. I'm planning on joining the reserves next summer.

Well, good for you, Ga-fubar. The military is an honorable career to enter. I, myself am in the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, and plan to join the air force. :wink:

But I do find it a little interesting that you don't care about the state of the CF, that's like going to a job interview and you don't know what the job is...

Nate_7:

No offense was taken. It's not really your fault. Here's why I think that. I blame the mistaken impression that Canadians have about our military on three groups.

1. Politicians of all the parties;
2. Media; and
3. Military.

The first two are self-explanatory. The third is because I think that the military has not "sold" itself correctly and allowed this mistaken impression to continue. There are self-serving and incompetent people at all levels, but I think the higher chain of command has been especially hit hard in the last 40 years. Poor management of programs, poor levels of planning and strategic thinking, ruinous over-runs of capital equipment replacement, the list goes on. It's no wonder that the effective leaders get burned out and leave. That leaves in the majority the mediocre, the stupid, and the self-serving. It's due to the effective few that stay that the military is able to function at all.
When the simple truth (soldiering is not peacekeeping) is explained properly, most people immediately grasp the difference and wonder what the hell happened. The military, and the govt too, should have just stuck to the simple truth. It would have done better in the long run and would not have had an adverse effect on the image most Canadians have of our military. We are the good guys. We fight to win. There is nothing wrong with proclaiming that fact loudly and clearly. Our record speaks for itself. It is a grave mistake to assume that the present day soldier lacks the same will in battle that our fathers and grandfathers demonstrated.

We just never got the story out, that's why I think the military is at fault too.

I guess what I was trying to say wasnt very clear. Dont get me wrong, I think that the way the Canadian Forces are put on the back burner of the governments priority list is disappointing. It's obvious that in the world these days situations are turning hostile alot quicker then in the past. Its clear that the world views us as a major peacekeeping force, thats all good and all, but we need to have the resources to be a credible force and actually stand a chance in a hostile situation. Comparing Canada to the U.S. in military might is like comparing Canada to Vietnam is hockey skills. You just cant do it. We are in two totally different categories. What about cutting the health care system back to 50% on non-emergency medical work? Would that not give the gorvernment millions more to spend on the military. With the population growing, quietly or not, 100% Health Care Coverage isnt a realistic idea, but thats a totally different topic. What I mean but I dont care about the State of Canadian forces is, it could be the worlds largest strongest force, or old Harry in nowhere Saskatchewan that has a couple of extra hunting rifles, I want to be a part of it. An attitude that not nearly enough youth have these days.

Sapper,
Just to let you know. I worked for three years alongside the CF guys in Goose Bay, I also did numerous deployments with all arms of the CF in my ten years reg force. I would say that the Canadians are probably the best troops (all -round) I have worked with. The yanks , man for man, are much less effective. But they have loads of good kit!

I agree with you that Canada really doesn't promote the CF in the media. The public should be proud of it's military but succesive governments have tried to water down the "warrior" side of the CF in favour of promoting the "peacekeeping" side. Peacekeeping plays much better to Quebecios sensibilities and therefore votes. The military were deprived of imperial links by Hellyer and Trudeau, unfortunately with those lost links went a lot of the more 'warry' parts of the Army, Navy and Crabs.
The view current media of the CF is a sympton of a greater maliase in our society. We have lost the core values that built the country and we have replaced them with a warm, fuzzy nothingness.

A great pity, but its good to see a few troops still hold the cause true.

Good on yer sapper!

Well put, eyebrock

btw, what country's armed forces do (did) you serve with?

HM Forces mate, finished my time at CFB Goose Bay.

I can expand if required...!

Damn. Time to jumpstart this thread... :wink:

Okay, now I have been researching peoples' comments and opinions, and I would like to add to one of my previous posts about the transformation of the Canadian Army:

1 CMBG (Heavy), C.F.B. Edmonton, Alberta
1 heavy tank battallion
2 mechanized battalions in tracked vehicles
1 SP Artillery Regiment
(usual brigade organic support units)

4 CLBG, C.F.B. Shilo, Manitoba
3 LIBs taken from 3 btlns of CMBs
1 Light Artillery Regiment
(usual brigade organic support units)

2 CMBG (Medium), C.F.B. Petawawa, Ontario
1 Direct Fire Support Regiment
2 mechanized battalions in [url=http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/2_0_48.asp?uSubSection=48&uSection=1]LAV IIIs
1 [/url]Heavy Artillery Regiment
(usual brigade organic support units)

5 CMBG (Medium), C.F.B. Valcartier, Quebec
Same layout as 2 CMBG (Medium)

1 independant battalion-sized airborne regiment
-Organization would be based roughly on CAR (airborne field battery, airborne engineer squadron, etc.).
-Would train in both airmobile and airborne operations, similar to British 16 (Air Assault) Brigade.
-This airborne regiment would act as a Canadian army quick reaction force.

*Amy Aviation: Army aviation would be provided by CH-146 Griffins. These helicopters would be spread throughout the brigades, although not evenly. For example, airmobile units would be given more air support than mechanized brigades. If the CF acts on its plans to purchase a medium-lift helicopter, then these would likewise be distributed.

**The Light Brigade would have a primary light infantry role, but would also train in the airmobile role.
[hr]
Tell me what you guys think

Thanks

The Heavy Brigade concept seems to be already shaping up in Edmonton with 1 CMBG. BTW, Here in Canada we have Armoured Regiments, not Battalions. Also not mentioned is the fourth Combat Arm: Engineers (After all I am a Sapper and I am obligated to correct any shortcomings with respect to my branch. lol) It is headed towards heavy status as well. Upgrade to 109's to Paladin specs or convert 1 battery to MLRS.

CLB should go to Gagetown due to the space requirements. They should also include the air mobile assets. There is no reason to have an autonomous air-mobile element. It eats up support, resources, and money that could be better spent in a combined grouping. Leave the JTF as an independant unit with the added responsibility (and added increase in manning) to provide a deep recce capability in support of operations.

2 CMBG/5 CMBG are fine as mechanized brigades.

All in all pretty darn close. In the spirit of maximizing our limited manpower try this wild ass idea on for size:

Since all the elements are training their people for their specific requirements why not take another step in that direction. This is oriented to the Army (due to my limited experience).

The Army conducts an SQ (Soldier Qualification) for those troops destined for Army units. Why not take those troops destined for the Combat Arms (Inf, Armd, Arty, Engr) and send them en masse to CABC for jump qualification? It would serve a number of purposes. It would sharpen physical fitness, increase individual self-confidence, provide a sense of accomplishment that would remain for life, and importantly provide a method of determining suitability. Jump? Continue on to trades training and your unit. Don't Jump? Re-assignment to another element or release. Harsh? Yes. So is life.

Comments?

Training everyone in basic para would be difficult for 2 big reasons.
1) The CF manpower is already too low, finding enough instructors to run the courses for all these people at the current moment would be extremely difficult, if not impossible

2) Not everyone wants to jump out of an airplane, or is safe to do it to. You create the problem of taking an already dangerous action and making it worse by adding people who do not want to be in that situation. To release anyone that dosn't want to jump would be a bad idea too as more would be not willing to do it than would.

I do think it is a good idea however, just not realistic.