Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next

That seems like quite a stretch. Are you prepared to prove that?

   

Yeah, as fertilizer!

   

I really don't know, Rev, to be honest.

The problem I see is the commanders are allowing it, or ordering it, and the U.S. government is doing shit about it. If they are ordering their men to fire on civilians, what happens to a fellow, or woman, if they do not follow orders? I don't know, so that's why I'm asking. Are they thrown in the brig? Given a beating by their fellow soldiers? Shot in the head by one of their own and is said to be a casuality of the insurgents?

I wouldn't want to be put in that position myself, to be honest.

There are people on this board with the military on both sides of the border. So, I ask you, what would happen if you didn't follow orders to slay civilians? And be truthful about this. Don't give me some shit that you would be labeled as a conscientious objector and sent home. I'm sure it's far more severe than that.

   

Actually, during the first Abu Graib prison scandel, a military police officer walked in on the people doing those terrible things, and told them it was against the rules and testified against them. You have every right to go against what your commander says -- just be ready to possibily face a courtroom -- in which you will be able to tell your case.

You all can call me a hypocrite as much as you want, but that is why I didn't sign up for the military -- I know the military means killing people and getting shot at, which is something that I don't want to do. This guy signed up, and ran because he thought he would be told to commit crimes(no proof that this is the standard operation, although there are "stories").

   

It is probably a blessing you did not enlist in the military. You more than likely would have been discharged as unfit. This Hinzman fellow, however, said he enlisted to get an education. My guess is, he will definately be getting an education alright.

   

Well, at least we know one thing. Hinzman is in a better place now.

Johnny, looks like you will be getting your wish ... Canadians getting shot at and bombed by the native population.
Canadian Soldiers are slated to run about the countryside keeping the peace of that wonderful place we know and love ... you guessed it ... Kandahar. Maybe we should rename it Canadahar. hmmm

I guess our guys will be taking over the responsibility of extending the authority of the Afghan central government and, with their added security, promoting development and reconstruction. They will also support the demobilization and disarmament of militias; building an accountable national army and national police force under democratic control; stamping out the drug trade; and building a legal system.

So, I imagine there will be casulties but I guess thatz a little like counting the coffins before they're latched, right?

   

I never wish for anyone to get shot at and bombed. I don't even want this Hinzman guy to die or anything. I am just saying that he signed up, and should have known what he was getting into. If he signed up to the military thinking that it's a cakewalk business, he was greatly mistaken. Sometimes we have to pay for our mistakes. I bet there's other ways he could have gotten an education if he had tried at them. I know a guy who lost his job, had a family to pay for, and was still able to take out student loans to get an education. This guy signed up for the military, and there's plenty of people in his same situation over fighting in Iraq. What makes him so brave and them not? Nothing. He just couldn't take it, and was scared of dying I think. Afghanistan is no Iraq. I bet he saw how many people are dying over there, and decided to run. I'm not saying his life isn't worth anything, just that the rules shouldn't change for this one guy because he has a hypothetical reason of thinking he will be forced to commit war crimes. He was a US soldier, not a UN soldier, and because the UN says a war isn't legal doesn't mean anything. I suppose taking money and putting it in your pockets from the oil for food program is alright? I suppose emailing your employees and telling them to support Annan, without given them a way not to support him, is a great thing to do. Face it, this guy isn't brave, and he ran to save his ass. Those Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan are a 100 times more brave than this guy.

   

He never thought it was a cakewalk though, Johnny and he did serve in Afghanistan. That means that anybody who tries to paint him as a coward is being a lot less than honest. He likely did sign up to get an education, many do, but he did so with a full willingness to serve his country. He just doesn;t consider committing war crimes (and the Iraq war is illegal, so simply serving there is technically a war crime).

Those aren't just "stories" coming out Iraq either. They have been documented by the press, international aid agencies, and members of the US military. It's important to remember that.

   

Like I said, the world deems this an illegal war, the US deems it an alright war. What if another country was aiming nukes at the US, and all intelligence supported it, and that the country was going to attack the US with WMD, yet they were being shady about letting inspecters in, and intelligence said that the country was going to give the WMD to terrorist for strikes on the US, yet the UN said no to attacking them, and the time was running out? That's basically what the situation was before the war, and the American people agreed to it. I remember before the war UN inspectors being held off at buildings, and Saddam being shady(which reports have shown that he was doing because he wanted people like Iran to think he had WMD, which backfired on him). This guy signed up to not be a judger of just wars, but to serve in the US army. When you sign up with the army, you are basically giving your life to your country. My cousin is in the army, and I know people in Iraq who did their job and deeply regretted whenever civilians were killed -- so are you saying that they are war criminals? They are just people doing their job. Bush might be a war criminal, but this whole war could have just been a massive intelligence failure, plus I don't see what the difference is between taking out Saddam, the leader in Bosnia or whatever. Saddam was commiting Genocide. If there was a UN, and they hadn't approved of the US attacking Germany in World War 2, would it have been an illegal war?

There comes a point when screaming about how bad the other side is really does nothing. What are your solutions? I mean, if you can bitch about the war, you obviously must know how to get out of Iraq and make Iraq and alright country.

   

That's exactly the problem with the American media, Johnny. That isn't what the situation was before the war. Blix and Ritter said so. The world agreed with them.

If that was the situation before the war, Bush would have had a real coalition. The evidence wasn't there because the weapons weren't there. Everybody knew that Saddam didn't have nukes. That's why most of the world refused to act.

   

I dont recall calling him a coward, I DID say I had no respect for him though as he took off to Canada instead of standing his ground and fighting his battle at home (in the USA)

   

If he would have stayed in the US he would have gone to jail and the issue never would have made it into the mainstream press, RH.

As it is the mainstream press rarely mentions his service in Iraq or that he tried to get conscientious objector status.

Even the possibility that would be sent to jail shows how unfair the US military system is becoming as they become more and more desperate for troops and more and more soldiers want no part of an illegal and immoral war.

   

That was the prison scandal though, Johnny. What about in a combat situation? No one answered that question. So, either no one knows for sure, or it is what I thought; the person gets shot by one of their own. Not a choice for many IMHO.



I don't think that, Johnny. I think that means you have some morals. Nothing wrong with that, but your morals don't show too well in some of your posts.

   

Exactly, and that's where it should have remained.

That's a particularly stupid thing to say as usual. As you well know, conscientious objector status applies to a draft situation which unless I'm mistaken is not in affect in the United States. Didn't this jerk sign up all on his own maybe even with help from mommy and daddy?

Unfair? Not likely. Illegal war? Prove it.

There are curently two Arabian born Canadians about to be extradited under Canada's new terrorism laws to Egypt where upon their arrival they will be arrested, jailed and summarly executed. Where are your crocodile tears for them? You are such a hypocrite.

   

Why? Are you afraid of dissent?



The US military allows conscientious objectors to serve in non-combat roles. It has nothing to with the draft. You are, as usual, short on facts.



The US was the aggressor in a war. That is illegal.



Obviously you know nothing about what I've done regarding security certificates and extradition to countries that use torture and the death penalty. It's pretty hilarious coming from a vicious little freak like you.

   

Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next