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just my useless rant....

does a country base it's identity soley on it's past? diversity is a great thing, but traditions brought forth from the past--the history of a culture or nation--often get "lost" in the influx of new peoples I think. Does the immigrant charish the culture of their adopted land or the land from which they came? history/tradition is being lost in the US and Canada I would guess as more migrate.

We are living the history of our children right now...

I've always felt like the US had little of a national culture like that of European nations....mostly due to our relatively young age as a nation....just as Canada, we are "newbies" in the world and our "history" does not define us to the extent of countries such as Germany and France for example--simply because we haven't been around long enough....perhaps we are still in the formative years of national identity.

when I think of Germany I think of beer and brats and yodeling and mountains, Nazi's and kings/queens, and stern, inventive peoples....is this their national identity? do the impressions of "outsiders" define them? when considering the US or Canada, what do you think of?

i don't know. It just seems to me that Canada and the US both have a bit of an identity "crisis" ....Canada, based on the observations i've seen here, is a land of beauty with fiercly loyal peoples known for their hospitality and friendliness (of course there are few bad seeds in every apple). that doesn't seem like too bad of an identity to me.

now, as far as being anti-canadian, anti-american, etc. .... for most people it's pretty foolish of them to be "anti" toward a culture or country simply because they don't know the people from that place...what they object to is often the radical or political behaviour and not that of the people themselves and therefore i don't see how they can be "anti"....maybe instead they should consider themselves not "anti" but "pro" (their cause) such as "pro liberation"...it gives it a more positive spin and doesn't immediately offend?

   

I agree with the comment on people basing their opinions on people from "faraway" places mainly on the radicals, the "newsmakers, the sensationalists." But, and this offends me more (about Canada), the people who base their opinions on the people who are "here" only on perceived differences. "They're strange, weird, non-conforming." You wear a turban? Wow, man, that's weird, I don't like you or anyone who looks like you." "Your english isn't so great, I think you should leave our lovely god-fearing, english-speaking country." So many people are uninformed, and ready to base their opinions on something other than the truth. And they don't try to figure out the truth for themselves - and often don't want to.

   

Wow! It sounds like you really need some help with that big chip on your shoulders because your racist flame bait has nothing to do with what's being said here.

Canada is becoming more racially diverse: great! Does this mean that Canada's identity should be defined so narrowly as "diversity". No. Such a notion is absurd and insulting to Canada's history. Why do immigrants of any race want to move to Canada? Because of a standard of living and a society that was built by a long a grueling struggle by Canadians over hundreds of years... Should these immigrants (of any race) learn what it took to make Canada the great place it is today? Absolutely yes. Should Canada's identity be defined in such a way as to embrace all of Canadian history? Absolutely yes. Do these beliefs make me a racist? Absolutely no... because I'm not.

Oh, and by the way: I am a second generation Canadian who lives in Toronto... my family immigrated from Britain about 100 years ago.

   

Ok I'll throw a couple pennies in.

Diversity is a very good word to use in descirbing Canadian Culture. The culture of Eastern Canada is quite different than Western Canadian culture. Western culture is quite different than that of Northern Canada, which is different than Central Canada. Then you got Quebec, which is just fucking different! (fyi I love Quebec)

Then you could break down the different areas and find things which are quite unique to certain places/towns, all of which contribute to "Canadian Culture" as a whole. So I think you can use the word diverse to describe Canadian Culture. Because it is pretty diverse!

   

You're laughing, but that's actually a good point. I still say though that the emphasis for a national identity should be based on common principles with a shared history, and not exclusively on the fact that different people are different.

   

So, given Canada's history -- and let's take an honest look at it here -- you think that a country basically built on immigration (colonization) to view its identity as a byproduct of immigration (diversity) is absurd?
There's nothing absurd about it. I think it makes much more sense to see the Canadian identity as diversity than the way that a lot of people do: hockey, beer and healthcare. And if you honestly believe that the Canadian identity can be defined strictly along the lines of American/British culture, or even along the lines of American/French/British culture, you haven't been paying attention to the changing face of this country.
And the face of this country will continue to change, whether we want it to or not -- I see no reason not to embrace this change, and embrace diversity as (at least) a major tenet of the Canadian identity.

   

If you honestly believe Quebec (or French Canadian culture in general) has no influence outside of its borders, you are selling it incredibly short.

Also, what do you propose is the "Canadian Standard" and furthermore, how do you believe you will make people "conform" to it?

   

Hmm maybe I should revise my statement. Sure Quebec has influence in NB but West of Ontario....nada. You live in Edmonton and can you honestly say French culture has "if any" influence upon Western Canada? No sir, you are the one who is mistaken. Sure, governmental programs HAS to have French programs and hey, there is French immersion classes but all of that is choice, it has no direct impact on Western Canada, its true whether you like it or not.



Heh, what I propose is the Canadian standard? and the conformation? The Canadian friggan Constitution thats what. Immigrants and Canadians alike have rights according to that but to say that all this diverse culture will eventually fade the current Canadian (supposed) identity is pure crap and I am surprised at you.

Your orginal assertian was that the rate of Immigrants we take upon will further degrade the current Canadian identity and social system. BS. Immigration has strict controls on WHO and WHAT immigrates to Canada and I am well sure they monitor the many "diverse" peoples who immigrate here. Hmm you make it seem like Canada has a "Hey we have no restrictions so make yourself at home, and while your at it, dont be a Canadian and do whatever the hell you want" idea.

   

Thats BS and you know it.

take a look at what type of people are coming to Canada, then you tell me there is "strict controls"

Let’s not forget "The Liberals vote buying immigration policy"

   

Ok thats your assertian now back it up. Tell me, what "type" of people, so you so kindly elaborated on, immigrate to Canada? And your right, maybe I should revise that, not "strict" in a manner of speaking but it more than satisfies Patrick_Ross' assertian that massive influxes of immigrants do not come here.

   

Tman1 said:

"Sure Quebec has influence in NB but West of Ontario....nada. You live in Edmonton and can you honestly say French culture has "if any" influence upon Western Canada? No sir, you are the one who is mistaken. Sure, governmental programs HAS to have French programs and hey, there is French immersion classes but all of that is choice, it has no direct impact on Western Canada, its true whether you like it or not."
_______________________________________________________________________

Excuse me, there is a little place called Winnipeg, ever heard of it? A large francophone community resides there, in St. Boniface, and as a result the city gov't is expected to offer bilingual services. Recently, a case came up where a judge threw out a traffic case because the ticket was only in English. Franco Manitoban culture is alive and popular in Winnipeg. Caisse Populaire is also a bank that can be found here as well.[color=#] [/color]

   

Well laaa dee da. Thank you I did not know that. Don't try to undermine me by stating the obvious.You failed at reading my post. I never said French was not present in Western Canada, no sir, but my dear boy, we are talking about the direct (dominant) influence French-culture has presently in the West. Not much. Hmm Winnipeg is a nice city at that, but thats what it is, ONE city. Does the French culture in Winnipeg influence what people do in the west? Hmm no, not for me anyways. Your examples provide no argumentive proof to Quebec influencing the West as was Patrick _Ross' original statement which I kNOW you read.



Hmm news to me. Any follow up on that?

   

Don't try to undermine me by stating the obvious

I didn't, you did it yourself by making a sweeping generalization and then expected others to accept it as fact. Then you get all sensitive because I pointed out a small slip (Winnipeg is still part of western Canada, except for that horrible time with the CFL reorganization) in your arguement. Well here's are some examples to "back up" my point.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050620/wl ... NlYwN0bWE-

http://www.shsb.mb.ca/englishindex.htm

http://www.festivalvoyageur.mb.ca/

   

Actually, I would counter that the "Canadian friggin' Constitution" makes a fairly piss poor Canadian identity compared to "A Land For All People". Furthermore, words like "degradation" are your choice of words, and not mine -- as a matter of fact, I believe that we are culturally richer for accepting people from around the world. Also, I didn't say shit about the social system. Wake up and smell the maple nut crunch.
I'm asking you what you believe "being a Canadian" is all about. What kind of "restrictions" would you apply? Be real careful.
And also, and you may be unaware of this (or possibly Albertan and just in denial ) but there are French Canadian communities in Alberta as well. Given that it's Alberta, they don't all necessarily speak French 24/7, but French Canadian culture is alive and well in these places.

...By the way, I believe the word you were looking for is "conformity".

   

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