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That's speculation at this point, and as far as I'm concerned comes under the category of "We'll cross that bridge when we get to it." I'm sure it will be a wonderful and fascinating chess game.

Paul Martin is facing a paradox of power: the harder he holds on, the less he has.

   

That's not what the polls show, Zipperfish. In fact they show the Conservatives slipping or stalled with the Liberals in a virtual tie with them. The NDP and the Greens are up a bit. The only party making any real gains is the BQ.

If Harper wins a minority he will actually have less influence than he had before this election. If Martin wins a minority he is unlikely to be willing to work with Harper...there are a lot of hard feelings there.

Harper shot himself in the foot on this one.

   

I have just one question.

Why would so many of you be so willing to throw away money in an illegal scam to the liberal party of Canada? Not only that, but that mony was partialy your money. 250 Million to be exact. All this and not even think twice before saying that you still support the party.

The Liberal party of Canada need there preverbial peepee slapped. Just as the People of Canada did to Mulrony's govt. Mulrony is an idiot and he took us for a ride, so we gave hime a big kick in the ass. The people of Canada made the federal Progressive Conservitive Party EXTINCT.

Now fast-forward to today. A scandle has broken out and is bigger than anything you people have everseen and probably the biggest one you will see in your life time. Yet we do what.................. Let them back in.

I'm sorry but I like to call my self a man that is just a C hair on the right of center. I would like to think that those of you on the left would realize that we need a house cleaning, and the liberals need to go and in a big hurry. Rev_Blair, Scape, Ga-Fubar, use the past as the measuring stick to figure the proper punishment for these actions. Make it reasonable, but just because Jean and his band of merry men are no longer there, doesn't mean that the Liberal Party of Canada gets to get out of this unscathed. Make the punisment swift and accurate to the crime committed and then we get on with life.

   

Did you know that 90% of Canadians poled said "Ouch!" The other 10% said "Do that again."

The polls ebb and flow hypnotically. They were off by quite a bit in the last election when in turned out that Ontario was only threatening ot vote Conservative.

   

Actually, the polls have the Conservatives very close to where they were last time around. You'll also find that if you look at a bunch of polls as a trend instead of one or two as definitive evidence of your viewpoint that they do reflect they popular vote pretty well.

Can things change? Yeah, but it would take something as explosive as Brault's testimony, and that's done.

Overall, Canadians do not like the Conservative platform and they don't trust Stephen Harper. It isn't that they want to vote for Martin, it's that they don't want to vote for Harper.



That should have you voting for Martin or the Greens or the Progressive Canadians. The Harperites are radicals.



I've never voted Liberal in my life.



So get your Reformatories to push for proportional representation. That will take the kind of power that allowed the corruption in the Mulroney and Chretien governments to become all but non-existent.

   

Rev_Blair I wasn't saying that you voted liberal, the way you vote is up to you. Although you do value the ethics, morals, ideas, and political standing that is on the left of center. That's a good thing at least you have a stance and debate about it. There are a lot of people who don't, and that is a bit of a problem, because if you don't stand for something then you will fall for anything.

I on the other hand have personal views that refects both sides of the political spectrum. I just have a few more that are on the right than on the left. As you know we all can't get what we want out of our govt., but the party that will make my life easier just happens to be on the right.

Stephen harper doesn't scare me and I bet you want to know why.

1. I believe in minority govt. having that He will never get the extream right wing motions passed.

2. Harper isn't the one pushing the exteam right wing. Manning and Harris are doing that. They are the extream right, not Harper.

3. Gay marage: He woke up and smelled the coffee and looked at what the people want. So without admitting he was wrong he swiched his posn. to accomidate the People of Canada(Politions do this all the time).

I'm gonna cut this off before it gets too long

Rev I respect your oppinion I just don't have to agree with it.
Cheers

   

You don't have to agree but you really should consider:

1. Support PR and then we won't have to worry about it. A PR government would also free you up to support alternative parties that match your political outlook a little more. You could be comfortable voting for instead of against.

2. Harper is an extremist. More than that he has consistently, since he was a backroom boy for Mulroney, pushed his neo-conservative agenda. He is trying very hard to appear moderate, but the things he has said in the past belie a radical neo-conservative who would sell this country to the lowest bidder.

3. He didn't smell the coffee on gay marriage. He is still pushing a policy that would make gays and lesbians just a little less equal than the rest of us. Worst of all, his reasons for doing it are an inability to understanding the importance of the separation between church and state. He has decided that his traditions, based on his religious beliefs, are something the rest of us have to follow.

   

RevBlair, I can't think of a more sure fire way to turn this already ungovernable country into into a fractious, bickering, balkanized rump with a pizza parliament like they have in Italy.

All it would do is ensure that we'll never again have the same strong, central government once espoused by that leftist hero, Pierre Trudeau.

PR is desired by disgruntled NDP types who just can't accept the fact that fewer than 1 in 5 Canadians are buying into their shit these days. In typical left wing fashion, now that they've lost the game fair and square, they want to cry foul and change all the rules.

Australia has PR. The land Down Under is much less divided along regional lines, has no strong cultural/language differences within, and is much more homogenous than the Great White North. But PR's a nightmare down there.

In every election, one issue parties are able to concentrate enough resources in 1 or 2 seats to win and the result is these "one trick ponies" end up holding all the cards and the balance of power during some critical votes. As a result, groups like the "Shooter's Party" (gun nuts), or the "Australians Against Further Immigration Party" (racists), or the "Marijuana Party" (druggies) end up with undue influence.

And that's in a much more managable country than ours. PR in Canada may result in a few more seats for the NDP, probably a couple for the Greens, and definately a more polarized and fractious country than what we have now.

   

I've had very little exposure to the PR stance so if you could give me a link I could at least read up on it and have a better understanding about what it's sugesting. I know only what has been said in the media. I do believe that the electoral system does need a overhaul.

Harper isn't the neo-conservitive that you have been led to believe. I don't believe that for one minute. That of course depends on how you have defined neo-conservitism.

   

It seems to me that there is almost a concensus among Canadians that the Liberals should be given the boot. The problem is that the alternatives to the Liberals still aren't seen as being entirely credible. It's a frustrating situation!

Just another thought: Supreme Court judges are indeed unelected, but the PM who appoints them is elected and can be held accountable by the voting public for those appointments. In other words, Canadian voters ultimately do have a say in the Supreme Court through their elected representatives.

   

Many countries use some form of PR. Canada, the UK and US are in the minority of developed nations in not having some form of it. Drop the scare tactics...Canada is not Italy. The Reform/Alliance/Conservatives used to back it until they fooled themselves into thinking hey might win a majority one day.



Fair Vote Canada is a pretty good place to start.



It doesn't really matter which definition you use. He's a follower of the theories of Leo Strauss, so he qualifies there. He believes in the supremacy of corporations and the doctrine of unfettered trade, so he qualifies there. He's a sycophant of George Bush, so he qualifies there.

It is something that has followed him throughout his career. It was evident when he was a policy wonk for Mulroney and Manning, it was clear when he was with the NCC, it was brutally obvious when he was leader of the Alliance. It shows up in his proposed policies and it is apparent in his rhetoric.

He would be very bad for this country.

   

The planned destruction of Canada Through the separation of Quebec, U.S.-Canadian continental union by 2005

On the take: Crime, Corruption and Greed in the Mulroney Years


shortly after stepping down as prime minister in 1993, Brian Mulroney accepted $300,000 over 18 months from Karlheinz Schreiber, an infamous German-Canadian arms dealer. In cash.

The Shamrock Summit

Zip, how do you expect Harper to run Parliament? 1st he has to pass a none confidence vote and that can't be done without another party so who do you see as propping up a Harper Government? It won't be the Liberals or the NDP, There are rumors that four liberals that my leave but even that is unconfirmed and they will sit as independents if they did. The independents in the house now are too few and Harper would have to give them too much to get their vote to hold power. So who do you see helping Harper?

Dwaters, are you for or against Canada? If your for it and you vote in a Harper government with a Bloc opposition do you really think Canada will last the night?

No matter how corrupt the Liberals are it is trumped in spades by Harper's Confederacy leanings and his blatant willingness to side with the Bloc to get what he wants. For what good is power when you have to sell your soul to get it? Right now the Bloc are keeping the Liberals in check. Does anyone see Quebec seats going Harper blue? I don't so until the Conservatives can make headway there they can not be seen as a Federalist option. I strongly support Conservative values of balanced budgets, a strong military and lower taxes and waste but I will never support them if it means my beloved country gets put under the chopping block and we end up little more than a Northern Puerto Rico swallowed up by the US.

   

Scape,

I ask you this. How is it you have come to assume that Canada is in such a frail possition?

Do you honestly think that Quebec will actualy break off from Canada. The sepretist movment has no merit untill the PQ actually get back into the Quebec parlement as the govt. This means that there is 3 years to battle the sepretist movement. Under this the BQ can really do nothing but make the Quebec life a little more cushy for them.

As for your questioning my stance on if I'm for or against Canada. Open your eyes. I'm in the ARMY and in that I'm more than willing to die for this country if need be, but while I'm still here I will work toward making this place we call Canada a better place. I believe, and have always believed in CANADA, so if you wish to critisise me do so not my politics not on my patriotism.

   

When I asked if you were delusional Scape, I was only being a smart ass. You didn't have to prove my point.

The sources you quote don't make your point.

Kealy is a crackpot conspiracy theorist.

The Schreiber-Airbus Affair you've cited, I guess as "Proof" Mulroney was corrupt, was never proven. In fact, Mulroney won a huge settlement against the Government for slandering him over it.

The book about Greed and Corruption in the Mulroney years is old news, and still doesn't make your point. I didn't disagree that Mulroney's administration had abuses. I'm just not buying into this nonsense that his closer ties to the U.S. were a way for him to "Sell us out."

   

Scape, this is the kind of fearmongering that leads to mediochre governments and Liberal corruption. Why is it necessary to question someone's patriotism just because he opposes the Liberals.

This is what I find so disgusting about the Canadian Political environment. Simply opposing the reigning Liberals is seen as somehow being "Un-Canadian". It's like the Mcarthy era in 1950's America.

Dwaters serves this country in uniform. He sacrifices his comfort and lifestyle for it, and if necessary, he could be asked to give up his life. Yet because people like you disagree with his political views, you feel free to question his patriotism.

That's disgraceful. If Canada is so morally bankrupt and weak that it can't survive a change of government, then maybe we don't deserve to be a nation.

   

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