"informed voters"
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romanP @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:04 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
BTW, do you really think that the most politically savey people are armed with 'facts'?
Not me, I think they are generally armed with partisan propaganda.
Not me, I think they are generally armed with partisan propaganda.
Then you still have a lot of growing up to do in the world of understanding politics.
romanP @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:10 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
No, it's more like we have a democracy through representation. Every once in a while we enjoy a short spell of democracy when voters go to the ballot box. Too bad the smart guys don't give us something better to vote for.
Do you read what you write before you post it? If we have a democracy through representation, then it is not up to the politicians make it better for us all on their own, or else there would be no point in voting. The "smart guys" do try to give everyone something better to vote for, but the problem is that everyone else isn't interested because they're too busy voting how their parents and grandparents voted, without any forethought at all that voting by tradition is quite possibly one of the stupidest things one can do in an election.
We get the democracy we deserve.
romanP @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:19 pm
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
OMG, now I'm a hypocrite.
The comment was indeed hypocritical. According to you, "informed" people, or "voters" is "vile crap" but it's not apparently, when YOU are informed. How is that not problematic? You're the one railing against "informed voters" so how is it now okay or permissiable to be informed on matters?
AR isn't talking about people who are actually informed or misinformed or completely ignorant necessarily, "informed" is also doublespeak for "I'm bitter about the Liberal Party and policies it never implemented." Or, essentially, grasping at sour grapes.
romanP @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:37 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
I remember taking a graduate studies course on greek mythology. Our first assignment was to write an essay on your favorite greek god, and explain why. One of the engineers immediately put up his hand and asked " How do I know which one is my favorite when we haven't taken this course before?"......the professor smiled and said "to take this course, you have to leave your analytical mind at the door"
Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that you should shove your brain into a drawer and forget about it. My favourite greek goddess is Eris, the goddess of discord. Why? Because Erisian logic tears apart everything you know.
$1:
No condescending tone intended. you were looking for evidence or some sort of analytical data.....and sometimes you have to leave your analytical brain at the door. When I say that the uninformed voter is just as important as the informed voter, I'm stating an idea that ties to the concept of a democracy, and you need to relax a little.
Of cours the uninformed voter is important, but not in ways that are ethical or good. These are people can accurately be labelled "useful idiots."
romanP @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:45 pm
Mustang1 Mustang1:
In political science, why would anyone leave an analytical brain at the door? what purpose does it serve? Why would solid intellectual discourse be jettisoned? What is the advantage? Why would rational thought be replaced? Please provide some ojbective examples to illustrate your point.
So that you can put yourself in the shoes of ignorant people and use it to your advantage. I'm pretty sure that this is the Conservative election strategy - they are completely aware that a large portion of their electorate is willfully ignorant because they themselves are exactly those kinds of people.
PluggyRug @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:57 pm
romanP romanP:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
In political science, why would anyone leave an analytical brain at the door? what purpose does it serve? Why would solid intellectual discourse be jettisoned? What is the advantage? Why would rational thought be replaced? Please provide some ojbective examples to illustrate your point.
So that you can put yourself in the shoes of ignorant people and use it to your advantage. I'm pretty sure that this is the Conservative election strategy - they are completely aware that a large portion of their electorate is willfully ignorant because they themselves are exactly those kinds of people.
How can complete awareness be construed as ignorance? You cannot screw a left hand threaded wing nut onto a right hand bolt.
romanP @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:12 pm
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
romanP romanP:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
In political science, why would anyone leave an analytical brain at the door? what purpose does it serve? Why would solid intellectual discourse be jettisoned? What is the advantage? Why would rational thought be replaced? Please provide some ojbective examples to illustrate your point.
So that you can put yourself in the shoes of ignorant people and use it to your advantage. I'm pretty sure that this is the Conservative election strategy - they are completely aware that a large portion of their electorate is willfully ignorant because they themselves are exactly those kinds of people.
How can complete awareness be construed as ignorance? You cannot screw a left hand threaded wing nut onto a right hand bolt.
You can be aware of some things and ignorant of others. Especially if you're as cynical as any Conservative party MP.
CanAm1 @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:18 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
BTW, do you really think that the most politically savey people are armed with 'facts'?
Not me, I think they are generally armed with partisan propaganda.
Not me, I think they are generally armed with partisan propaganda.
That is a great point. I can be accused of that at times although I am trying to become open to listening to what a Liberal says it's damn hard.
Benoit @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:53 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
BTW, do you really think that the most politically savey (sic) people are armed with 'facts'?
Not me, I think they are generally armed with partisan propaganda.
Not me, I think they are generally armed with partisan propaganda.
Because voters should know that, they have to be informed.
Wally_Sconce @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:13 pm
Christ, I'm giving up on this topic. Everyone's reference point is different.
Romanp was right. We are speaking in code, and it's screwing everything up.When I talk about the "informed" I'm obviously not thinking about the same people that Mustang is thinking about. And, when Mustang bad mouths the 'uninformed' he is obviously not talking about the same people that I'm thinking of.
I guess we could spin this one around a few times and sort it all out, but whats the point? This debate has evolved into something completely different than I had in mind.
Hmm...
I had a specific experience the other day that led me to writing the original post, I could describe the experience and then you guys can read my thoughts in context.
But this is going to take about 1000 words, so I'm going to have to post it tommorow or on the weekend.
Wally_Sconce @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:22 pm
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
I remember taking a graduate studies course on greek mythology. Our first assignment was to write an essay on your favorite greek god, and explain why. One of the engineers immediately put up his hand and asked " How do I know which one is my favorite when we haven't taken this course before?"......the professor smiled and said "to take this course, you have to leave your analytical mind at the door"
Point? And a graduate studies course had assignments like "which is you favorite Greek God?" Wow.
the point of a course like that is to get you to think differently. very common in university.
romanP @ Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Christ, I'm giving up on this topic. Everyone's reference point is different.
Romanp was right. We are speaking in code, and it's screwing everything up.When I talk about the "informed" I'm obviously not thinking about the same people that Mustang is thinking about. And, when Mustang bad mouths the 'uninformed' he is obviously not talking about the same people that I'm thinking of.
Romanp was right. We are speaking in code, and it's screwing everything up.When I talk about the "informed" I'm obviously not thinking about the same people that Mustang is thinking about. And, when Mustang bad mouths the 'uninformed' he is obviously not talking about the same people that I'm thinking of.
No, Mustang is actually talking about informed and uninformed people. You are using those terms to label something which is not what the label actually refers to. That's why you're confused.
It's like when I hear certain people, not from CKA, that they hate French people, but what they actually hate is the policies the government has toward Quebec. But you can't get them to say that, because they've encoded the information in their head to mean the people, and have no idea of the effects of policy.
Mustang1 @ Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:06 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Romanp was right. We are speaking in code, and it's screwing everything up.When I talk about the "informed" I'm obviously not thinking about the same people that Mustang is thinking about. And, when Mustang bad mouths the 'uninformed' he is obviously not talking about the same people that I'm thinking of.
Actually, my points are quite lucid and i'm certainly not working off my own lexicon. Oh...and I'm not "bad mouthing" the uninformed insomuch as i'm questioning willful ignorance and anti-intellectual relativism. They're fair points
$1:
I had a specific experience the other day that led me to writing the original post, I could describe the experience and then you guys can read my thoughts in context.
But this is going to take about 1000 words, so I'm going to have to post it tommorow or on the weekend.
But this is going to take about 1000 words, so I'm going to have to post it tommorow or on the weekend.
Fair enough...I'd be interested in reading about your experience.
Mustang1 @ Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:11 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
I remember taking a graduate studies course on greek mythology. Our first assignment was to write an essay on your favorite greek god, and explain why. One of the engineers immediately put up his hand and asked " How do I know which one is my favorite when we haven't taken this course before?"......the professor smiled and said "to take this course, you have to leave your analytical mind at the door"
Point? And a graduate studies course had assignments like "which is you favorite Greek God?" Wow.
the point of a course like that is to get you to think differently. very common in university.
Well aware of that...i was surprised at the relative simplicity of such a question being posed on an evaluative assignment in a Graduate course. No insult here...i'm just take aback by the assignment as usually they're a little higher on the taxonomy of questioning in graduate level courses.
Wally_Sconce @ Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:37 am
not higher on the taxonomy? in order to get an A, you had to cite as many comparisons as you could. it required you to take the whole damn course in a few days, so the rest of the course time would push even deeper into the topic.
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