"informed voters"
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Wally_Sconce @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:19 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
snuggles61 snuggles61:
No matter how informed you are even if you have a Phd in political sciences when you have absolutely nothing to vote for whatsoever(And we really don't) what good does your being informed do you?
You make an informed decision and perhaps, instead of whining about it, you apply said knowledge to the political process such as policy development, political volunteering or becoming an active participant.
Not everyone wants to be at the head of a parade.
For example. I'm totally against the gun registry, yet, I'm not trying to turn myself in for having unregistered firearms like the leader of LUFA has tried to do. However, I do financially support the activist groups by being a member.
Wally_Sconce @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:21 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
$1:
I think that politically aware people are armed with knowledge, facts, education and an appreciation - rightly or wrongly - of electorate behavior.
I'm armed with the same things especially when its related to matters that directly effect me. In some issues, I'm the 'informed' and they are the 'uninformed'.
So, now it's okay to be "informed" because you're in on it? How delightfully hypocritical and self-serving
OMG, now I'm a hypocrite. That must mean that my free speach must be supressed by those superior thinkers that know what is best for me.
Mustang1 @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:39 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
OMG, now I'm a hypocrite.
The comment was indeed hypocritical. According to you, "informed" people, or "voters" is "vile crap" but it's not apparently, when YOU are informed. How is that not problematic? You're the one railing against "informed voters" so how is it now okay or permissiable to be informed on matters?
$1:
That must mean that my free speach must be supressed by those superior thinkers that know what is best for me.
Lose the emotional rhetoric and hyperbole. If you can't make an argument, fine, but don't ascribe views to me that aren't supported by text. And don't think that the mocking tone has gone unnoticed in lieu of the shrill grandstanding.
Mustang1 @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:43 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Not everyone wants to be at the head of a parade.
Since when is volunteering the head of the parade? Sounds like you're advocating for people to be willfully ignorant, political apathetic, but still have their wishes met, opinions solicited and views included despite the fact that they're intellectually lazy and incapable of participating in the political process? Forget it
Benoit @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:02 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
WTF does RRSP have to do with anything that I wrote? are you sure you aren't drinking beer?
Pat Wege (executive director of the Manitoba Child Care Association), deriding the Conservatives' $100-a-month child-care benefit as laughable: "Their own website shows people putting that money in their RRSP", she said.
Wally_Sconce @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:03 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Not everyone wants to be at the head of a parade.
Since when is volunteering the head of the parade? Sounds like you're advocating for people to be willfully ignorant, political apathetic, but still have their wishes met, opinions solicited and views included despite the fact that they're intellectually lazy and incapable of participating in the political process? Forget it
No, I'm not advocating that, you wrote something of the sort "if you don't like it then become an activist" I'm just pointing out that there are different levels of activism. Not everyone wants to be the leader.
Wally_Sconce @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:12 am
I remember taking a graduate studies course on greek mythology. Our first assignment was to write an essay on your favorite greek god, and explain why. One of the engineers immediately put up his hand and asked " How do I know which one is my favorite when we haven't taken this course before?"......the professor smiled and said "to take this course, you have to leave your analytical mind at the door"
$1:
$1:
nothing that will satisfy your analytical brain, but who said that is a means to meet all ends?
Condescending tone aside, you've yet to provide anything tangible to assert your claims. Unless it's objective, then it's merely an opinion and that's immaterial
No condescending tone intended. you were looking for evidence or some sort of analytical data.....and sometimes you have to leave your analytical brain at the door. When I say that the uninformed voter is just as important as the informed voter, I'm stating an idea that ties to the concept of a democracy, and you need to relax a little.
Mustang1 @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:13 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Not everyone wants to be at the head of a parade.
Since when is volunteering the head of the parade? Sounds like you're advocating for people to be willfully ignorant, political apathetic, but still have their wishes met, opinions solicited and views included despite the fact that they're intellectually lazy and incapable of participating in the political process? Forget it
No, I'm not advocating that, you wrote something of the sort "if you don't like it then become an activist" I'm just pointing out that there are different levels of activism. Not everyone wants to be the leader.
Firstly, that's not what I suggested. I actually wrote, "political process such as policy development, political volunteering or becoming an active participant". An "active" participant means just that: working/volunteering for parties, think tanks or advocacy groups. This isn't leading any parade, it's doing something and not simply sitting around whining and complaining.
Secondly, no one has to be a leader. Many can become quite influential simply by being participants. If one wants to accomplish something, maybe they need to be positivists - this means doing something.
Mustang1 @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:20 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
I remember taking a graduate studies course on greek mythology. Our first assignment was to write an essay on your favorite greek god, and explain why. One of the engineers immediately put up his hand and asked " How do I know which one is my favorite when we haven't taken this course before?"......the professor smiled and said "to take this course, you have to leave your analytical mind at the door"
Point? And a graduate studies course had assignments like "which is you favorite Greek God?" Wow.
$1:
No condescending tone intended. you were looking for evidence or some sort of analytical data.....and sometimes you have to leave your analytical brain at the door.
In political science, why would anyone leave an analytical brain at the door? what purpose does it serve? Why would solid intellectual discourse be jettisoned? What is the advantage? Why would rational thought be replaced? Please provide some ojbective examples to illustrate your point.
$1:
When I say that the uninformed voter is just as important as the informed voter, I'm stating an idea that ties to the concept of a democracy,
This makes little sense - how exactly does the uninformed voter tie to the concept of democracy. I'll be extremely interesting in seeing how you work political science here with little rationality or logic.
$1:
and you need to relax a little.
Practice what you preach...
"How many of you have heard all this vial crap about the need for more 'informed voters'
If you ask me, this 'informed voters' nonsense is a bunch of elitist bullshit.
a democracy can not be truly tempered except by including the free and sincere votes of the working man. votes that represent ethics, family values, and dreams. we don't need more 'informed voters' all we need is more free voting citizens.
all you people that think you know better than others are arrogant pricks to assume that you are the ultimate voice for a country."
That's relaxed? Seems like a rant and so lose the hypocrisy.
Public_Domain @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:30 am
Benoit @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:28 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
I remember taking a graduate studies course on greek mythology. Our first assignment was to write an essay on your favorite greek god, and explain why. One of the engineers immediately put up his hand and asked " How do I know which one is my favorite when we haven't taken this course before?"......the professor smiled and said "to take this course, you have to leave your analytical mind at the door"
Condescending tone aside, you've yet to provide anything tangible to assert your claims. Unless it's objective, then it's merely an opinion and that's immaterial
No condescending tone intended. you were looking for evidence or some sort of analytical data.....and sometimes you have to leave your analytical brain at the door. When I say that the uninformed voter is just as important as the informed voter, I'm stating an idea that ties to the concept of a democracy, and you need to relax a little.
$1:
$1:
nothing that will satisfy your analytical brain, but who said that is a means to meet all ends?
Condescending tone aside, you've yet to provide anything tangible to assert your claims. Unless it's objective, then it's merely an opinion and that's immaterial
No condescending tone intended. you were looking for evidence or some sort of analytical data.....and sometimes you have to leave your analytical brain at the door. When I say that the uninformed voter is just as important as the informed voter, I'm stating an idea that ties to the concept of a democracy, and you need to relax a little.
"At Ancient Athens, a citizen who held no official position or who was not a habitual orator in the Assembly was branded as idiotai (idiot)."
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/gree ... Idiots.htm
snuggles61 @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:47 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
snuggles61 snuggles61:
No matter how informed you are even if you have a Phd in political sciences when you have absolutely nothing to vote for whatsoever(And we really don't) what good does your being informed do you?
You make an informed decision and perhaps, instead of whining about it, you apply said knowledge to the political process such as policy development, political volunteering or becoming an active participant.
Not everyone wants to be at the head of a parade.
For example. I'm totally against the gun registry, yet, I'm not trying to turn myself in for having unregistered firearms like the leader of LUFA has tried to do. However, I do financially support the activist groups by being a member.
I respect your position on the gun registry.Harper said once elected he'd scrap it but instead told us to comply with it.The ndp said they'd scrap it so with that in mind who gets your vote next time?(I voted for Harper,this time it's ndp)
Benoit @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:59 pm
Rednecks too often solve their problems by exchanging firepower instead of exchanging information.
faile @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:14 pm
snuggles61 snuggles61:
I respect your position on the gun registry.Harper said once elected he'd scrap it but instead told us to comply with it.The ndp said they'd scrap it so with that in mind who gets your vote next time?(I voted for Harper,this time it's ndp)
Run yourself as an independent, Libertarian, or for deliberative democracy, or any other idea. The solution to being presented with a false choice in politics is to become the alternative yourself. Peaceful political revolution is possible, but it requires people not to submit to false choices.
romanP @ Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:03 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Nah, I'm just trying to promote a general theme that the 'informed' aren't always informed, and the 'uninformed' sometimes know what they are talking about....hence, acvtive involvement from both sides is where Canada should be at.
Ah, so you are speaking in code. Perhaps you should stop that, as it makes it completely impossible to understand or converse with you intelligently about whatever your point is.
$1:
the tempering steel analogy was an attempt to state that good policies come from analytical thinking with a good dose of basic common sense. the basic common sense( as well as some of the analytical thinking) comes from the average citizen like you or me.
Common sense isn't.
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