Liberals and the backlash....
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 Next
PluggyRug @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:17 pm
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
It did not take long for Dion to find the Liberal fence to sit on.
Already in dither mode.
The 1 billion in hand out cuts is just the tip of the iceberg (I hope).
Already in dither mode.
The 1 billion in hand out cuts is just the tip of the iceberg (I hope).
Before we get too enthusiastic about cutting social spending, let's first make sure that a program isn't providing social value before it is cut.
Providing social values often depends on someones point of view and often benefits only a few.
Yes, I would agree that unconditional cutting without correct and CURRENT information is advised.
There are many social programmes that require an up-to-date assessment.
Delwin @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:54 pm
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
A better environment plan than the Liberals, at that.
Better or cheaper ?Harper said the Conservative governing platform "will include measures we're going to develop over the next year or so to deal with both pollution and greenhouse gases.''
$1:
But cabinet documents obtained by the Globe and Mail suggest the cuts won't stop at 15 programs.
The newspaper reported Thursday that the Conservatives will cut 80 per cent of programs aimed at curbing global warming at Environment Canada.
Budgets in other government departments aimed at climate change will be slashed by 40 per cent, the newspaper reported.
The newspaper reported Thursday that the Conservatives will cut 80 per cent of programs aimed at curbing global warming at Environment Canada.
Budgets in other government departments aimed at climate change will be slashed by 40 per cent, the newspaper reported.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news ... 17&k=70554
Patrick_Ross @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:34 pm
No, just plain better.
The Clean Air Act had short-term (beginning in 2010 when Liberal-negotiated voluntary standards with industry expire), medium-term and long-term targets, unlike the Liberal plan which was, basically, no plan.
The targets to be met between 2025 and 2050, for example, far exceed Canada's Kyoto commitments. Of course, it wasn't "Kyoto" by name, so all the Liberals who harped Kyoto as an opportunity to do nothing while creating the illusion of action all cried bloody murder, as there may finally be some regulation of the Ontario manufacturing industries from which their constituents draw their jobs, and from whom the Liberals draw their votes.
sandorski @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:40 pm
It's not that Dion doesn't like the Budget(how could he have any opinion on something yet to exist?), it's that the Budget provides the earliest opportunity to bring down the Conservative Minority.
Patrick_Ross @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:42 pm
Well, Dion needs to be very careful. If Harper is smart, he'll manage to run a freight train through that dark tunnel that Dion is blindly stumbing through, by putting forth a budget that Dion can't conscientiously refuse to support.
Delwin @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:53 pm
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
No, just plain better.
The Clean Air Act had short-term (beginning in 2010 when Liberal-negotiated voluntary standards with industry expire), medium-term and long-term targets, unlike the Liberal plan which was, basically, no plan.
The targets to be met between 2025 and 2050, for example, far exceed Canada's Kyoto commitments. Of course, it wasn't "Kyoto" by name, so all the Liberals who harped Kyoto as an opportunity to do nothing while creating the illusion of action all cried bloody murder, as there may finally be some regulation of the Ontario manufacturing industries from which their constituents draw their jobs, and from whom the Liberals draw their votes.
Of course he had a plan:
The Clean Air Act had short-term (beginning in 2010 when Liberal-negotiated voluntary standards with industry expire), medium-term and long-term targets, unlike the Liberal plan which was, basically, no plan.
The targets to be met between 2025 and 2050, for example, far exceed Canada's Kyoto commitments. Of course, it wasn't "Kyoto" by name, so all the Liberals who harped Kyoto as an opportunity to do nothing while creating the illusion of action all cried bloody murder, as there may finally be some regulation of the Ontario manufacturing industries from which their constituents draw their jobs, and from whom the Liberals draw their votes.
http://www.nben.ca/environews/media/med ... c/dion.pdf
OnTheIce @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:02 pm
Delwin Delwin:
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
No, just plain better.
The Clean Air Act had short-term (beginning in 2010 when Liberal-negotiated voluntary standards with industry expire), medium-term and long-term targets, unlike the Liberal plan which was, basically, no plan.
The targets to be met between 2025 and 2050, for example, far exceed Canada's Kyoto commitments. Of course, it wasn't "Kyoto" by name, so all the Liberals who harped Kyoto as an opportunity to do nothing while creating the illusion of action all cried bloody murder, as there may finally be some regulation of the Ontario manufacturing industries from which their constituents draw their jobs, and from whom the Liberals draw their votes.
Of course he had a plan:The Clean Air Act had short-term (beginning in 2010 when Liberal-negotiated voluntary standards with industry expire), medium-term and long-term targets, unlike the Liberal plan which was, basically, no plan.
The targets to be met between 2025 and 2050, for example, far exceed Canada's Kyoto commitments. Of course, it wasn't "Kyoto" by name, so all the Liberals who harped Kyoto as an opportunity to do nothing while creating the illusion of action all cried bloody murder, as there may finally be some regulation of the Ontario manufacturing industries from which their constituents draw their jobs, and from whom the Liberals draw their votes.
http://www.nben.ca/environews/media/med ... c/dion.pdf
A plan is nothing without action. The Liberals are famous for the plan without any follow through. Dion is no different.
Delwin @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:10 pm
The conservatives cut 15 programs which were aimed at cutting greenhouse gases, and traded it for some way off targets and consultations, the people want action now.
hwacker @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:24 pm
Delwin Delwin:
The conservatives cut 15 programs which were aimed at cutting greenhouse gases, and traded it for some way off targets and consultations, the people want action now.
It's people like you that make me sick. Where was all this fury and anger when the Liberals were in power?
The CPC has done more in a year then the Liberals have done in 13.
Confused @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:56 pm
$1:
The conservatives cut 15 programs which were aimed at cutting greenhouse gases, and traded it for some way off targets and consultations, the people want action now.
A lot of the programs cut did not work. However, you are right. We all want action now.
$1:
It's people like you that make me sick. Where was all this fury and anger when the Liberals were in power?
The CPC has done more in a year then the Liberals have done in 13.
The CPC has done more in a year then the Liberals have done in 13.
You are more than correct to point out that there should be a lot of blame placed on the Liberals for their failure in the environment portfolio. Sadly, it is very clear that the Conservatives do not take the environment seriously and any attempt to do something about it now would simply be political motivated.
hwacker @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:05 pm
Confused Confused:
You are more than correct to point out that there should be a lot of blame placed on the Liberals for their failure in the environment portfolio. Sadly, it is very clear that the Conservatives do not take the environment seriously and any attempt to do something about it now would simply be political motivated.
A year in JAN 07, it would take you a full year to read all the crap the Liberals had in place.
It's a big shell game for the Liberals, who gets the money. or should I say what liberal supporter or corp gets the money.
themasta @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:15 pm
Delwin Delwin:
SJ-24,
No that wasn't my point at all. You questioned Dion's reasoning that the budget may be a reason to call an election. My point was that Dion got a taste of a Harper budget last time, he cancelled $1 billion worth of social programs. Unless he plans on reinstating $1 Billion worth of social programs, I think it is fair for Dion to assume that the budget will not be to his liking. Sight unseen.
I think we have an idea of the kind of budget which is in store, unless he completely changes who he is.
No that wasn't my point at all. You questioned Dion's reasoning that the budget may be a reason to call an election. My point was that Dion got a taste of a Harper budget last time, he cancelled $1 billion worth of social programs. Unless he plans on reinstating $1 Billion worth of social programs, I think it is fair for Dion to assume that the budget will not be to his liking. Sight unseen.
I think we have an idea of the kind of budget which is in store, unless he completely changes who he is.
He cancelled useless social programs. Now that $1 Billion that was being wasted can be put to better use.
Confused @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:31 pm
$1:
He cancelled useless social programs. Now that $1 Billion that was being wasted can be put to better use.
I agree that it seems a lot of the programs cancelled were obsolete.. but I am very concerned when programs like Native Languages and Adult Literacy are canned. That I do not like.
Delwin @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:21 pm
I would love to known by which miracle of the imagination the cons believe that 40% spending cuts to the current departments which are dedicated to the reduction in greenhouse gases in going to reduce the rate at which the gases are growing, unless the actual funding was causing the gases, that is.
Patrick_Ross @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:30 pm
Delwin Delwin:
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
No, just plain better.
The Clean Air Act had short-term (beginning in 2010 when Liberal-negotiated voluntary standards with industry expire), medium-term and long-term targets, unlike the Liberal plan which was, basically, no plan.
The targets to be met between 2025 and 2050, for example, far exceed Canada's Kyoto commitments. Of course, it wasn't "Kyoto" by name, so all the Liberals who harped Kyoto as an opportunity to do nothing while creating the illusion of action all cried bloody murder, as there may finally be some regulation of the Ontario manufacturing industries from which their constituents draw their jobs, and from whom the Liberals draw their votes.
Of course he had a plan:The Clean Air Act had short-term (beginning in 2010 when Liberal-negotiated voluntary standards with industry expire), medium-term and long-term targets, unlike the Liberal plan which was, basically, no plan.
The targets to be met between 2025 and 2050, for example, far exceed Canada's Kyoto commitments. Of course, it wasn't "Kyoto" by name, so all the Liberals who harped Kyoto as an opportunity to do nothing while creating the illusion of action all cried bloody murder, as there may finally be some regulation of the Ontario manufacturing industries from which their constituents draw their jobs, and from whom the Liberals draw their votes.
http://www.nben.ca/environews/media/med ... c/dion.pdf
$1:
What we do not have is a common course and one chart to get the country where it needs to go related to the environment and the economy. How can we do this? I would make the following suggestion: one important step could be a series of permanent, on-going, sector sustainability tables that would bring together stakeholders from across the private and public secorts, NGOs and other key elements of Canadian society, as necessary. Each one would address a specific industry sector, such as chemicals, oil and gas, auto manufacturing or forestry. Each would include representatives from the entire valude chain of the secor, including small and medium-sized businesses, financial sector representatives, consumer grous and other non-governmental organizations. For example, you cannot address auotmobile issues by talking to manufacturers alone. You have to talk to the parts suppliers, the design teams, the sales force, the auto recycling industry, and others.
These tables would build on the lessons and successes of roundtables that have addressed specific issues affecting the economy and the environment but they would have a much broader mandate: to improve environmental performance, the overall competitiveness of the secor, and the health of Canadians and of our planet. They would be asked to identify ambitious environmental objectives on the broadest range of issues, with clear strategies and timeframes for action, including specific interim targets, and ways to recognize and reward leaders - in effect, driving a race to the top.
These tables would build on the lessons and successes of roundtables that have addressed specific issues affecting the economy and the environment but they would have a much broader mandate: to improve environmental performance, the overall competitiveness of the secor, and the health of Canadians and of our planet. They would be asked to identify ambitious environmental objectives on the broadest range of issues, with clear strategies and timeframes for action, including specific interim targets, and ways to recognize and reward leaders - in effect, driving a race to the top.
So, then, Dion's "plan" was to open a three-folding process so that the government, industry and Civil Society Organizations (CSOs) could come up with a plan.
That's the first phase of the Conservative plan, except that the Conservatives, unlike the Liberals, have at least made a commitment to acting on climate change, as opposed to passing responsibility on to individual Canadians via the One-Tonne Challenge -- one of the 15 programs that was cut.
Moreso, Dion's speech actually allows the party to make a non-commitment to action, so long as the "sustainability tables" decide they don't want to commit to the targets the government is providing:
$1:
What we need are concrete results. not paperwork. To this end, it would be helpful if governments provide, at the outside each sector sustainability table the set of policies and targets they intend to implement and. with an open mind would consider all compelling reasons to proceed otherwise according to scientific evidence, comparative assessments of leading nations or other pertinent considerations.
On that note, it isn't even a legitimate three-folding process. It's tilted away from CSOs and toward business interests, with both being coopted by the government, so the Liberals don't have to worry with coming up with a real plan, or even taking the blame should irresponsible business people fail to come up with a responsible plan.
That's a great plan, Delly. Wonderful.
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 Next