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They can teach a German or Mandarin language class, but not immersion where all classes are taught in that language....You know what the word immersion means, right?

That is my understanding of the legislation from an article I read from the Globe and Mail comparing Ontario and Alberta's education systems.......I know you probably consider the Globe to be just a bunch of Godless Latte Lifting Liberals, but I am not going to go searching through Ontario's legislation acts for you....or even search the globe's archives.

   

They did that too. Or doesn't that count? I know that's in the "heat of battle". Well FNs mostly scalped in the heat of the battle, so I guess in the specifics of scalping practices, you can't claim one side was morally superior to the other.

Thank you. Maybe you can go back to Ireland too. After 7 or 8 posts, getting this? Not even Romanians or Serbs are as fast to throw an insult at me as you, so congrats. You have set a record.

No thanks. But than I'd like to see who would kick the other's ass in water-polo.

   

They already do. And they have for at least thirty years.



I'll bet it's not. After all, look at the link and quote I just posted.



What's missing? I went to high school in the 1980's. In a Toronto suburb that was bereft of natives. However, I recall several courses that made references to the "injustices" sufferered by natives.



Well, let's see Mr Hungarian. Maybe we should put you in charge and within a day or two, we'd have a solution.

But let's look at one native land claim. The Six Nations near Caledonia have 5 different factions negotiating at the moment. There are the elected Band Council, the Warrior Society, the Clan Mothers, the Confederacy and the average idiot whose picking fights on the line.

None of these people recognize the authority of the others. It's like negotiating with a school of fish.

So why don't you just jump on in there hero and sort the whole thing out!

I mean hey, former Ontario Premier David Peterson couldn't do it. But you probably could eh?

   

The fact I disagree with a newspaper's editorial stance, doesn't mean I dismiss it out of hand.

I'm reasonably familiar with the Ontario Education Act. I know how several of the more mundane laws are applied. But I'm the first to admit I'm not an expert.

What I do know, is that I"m reasonably familiar with it, and I've never heard of a law that prohibits the teaching of any language or culture in an Ontario School.

You made a sweeping statement arguing that the teaching of languages other than English or French are prohibited in Ontario. If you stand by that statement, then you'll just have to back it up. Because I'm not aware of the statute you're referring to.

If you can do so, then we have a debate. If not, then you'll just have to back down friend.

Cheers.

   

MCB I think VC was saying that taching completely in anything other then English or French is Illegal. So there is only French and English Immersion. YOu can take different language classes, but he is saying that you can't have every class taught in anyother language but English and French. I am not sure how accurate that is though. They would definately be at different schools. I highly doubt they are state funded either.

   

How can speaking a language in Canada be "Illegal." That's idiotic. What you're really trying to say (badly) is that the Ontario Government only funds French or English speaking schools.

Even when I went to school in the Seventies, every Saturday and after school in the gym was taken up by Chinese or Hebrew Students. I think that their relative cultural organizations paid for it, but I'm not sure. It's irrelevant regardless. We all went to the same school, took the same subject, had the same teacher and learned to think the same way. As CANADIANS!

We didn't expect our school to pay for their religious education.

I'm not so sure that's the case these days.

   

Hey Hungarian,

I read some of your posts and found some of your conclusions problematic and somewhat erroneous in terms of Ontario curriculum expectations and delivery. I sometimes find that there are too many misconceptions, misinterpretations and misinformation being bandied about in regards to Canadian history and its instruction and I thought some comments might be in order.

Study history long enough and most arrive at the conclusion that conflict (for a number of reasons) is an omnipresent component of humanity. It doesn’t matter if it’s the city-states of the Hellas, the Romans and the barbarians, the Christians and Muslims, or the native civilizations and tribes of the New World (just look at Aztec history for some pretty heinous acts of bloodlust). In that regard, we seem to be on the same page.

In fact there was sporadic conflict in the New World before and after Contact. While European intrusion did alter the nature of war, it certainly didn’t introduce it and while some groups could be interpreted as more belligerent than others (both native and European) I don’t see an overall villain in the clash of civilizations.



They do. What makes you think they don’t? In Ontario, compulsory courses include a Grade 10 Canadian History and a grade 10 Civics. Both cover history (although in the formers case it’s WWI to Present day) regarding natives very well and it’s reflected in curriculum expectations. In fact, I just reviewed a potential Grade 12 (university prep) Canadian History text (Defining Canada: History, Identify and Culture) and it covers the complex nature of European/Native interactions (it even explores pre-Contact cultures, like the Dorset, Woodland Peoples with a good emphasis on archaeological analysis) extremely well and from a historiographical standpoint: it’s well balanced.



I’d question that last part – what “abuses” are missing from standard Canadian history textbooks? Which books are you referring to? Who are the authors and what year(s) are they published –this goes a long way towards examining the historiography of said texts. While I’m not outright disagreeing with your assertion, I’d suggest that most competent texts do include a pretty balanced approach to Canadian studies and I certainly have books (I have one that was published under the old Ontario curriculum, just as an example) at my disposal that don’t neglect too many group’s experiences in the Canadian historical narrative.



I couldn’t agree more.



I’m not sure that would help.

   

Dummy Matt. Fucking STOP with introducing western political thought. You have zero fucking credibility on the subject, you have zero understanding of what their thoughts were and you have zero rationale for listing the philosophers you do. Perhaps you were just waiting to tell us all about Mill's Method of Difference and how it relates to ANYTHING here were you?



Fuck you are dumb, aren't you? Abortion clinics get burned down, Timothy McVeigh's bombing, the Atlanta Games bombing, the Beltway Sniper, the McMartin Daycare Salem Witchhunt, you, Columbine, riots in cities with sports victories, riots over the King acquitals, perpetuation of horseshit conspiracy theories, stem-cell research bills vetoed. Don't go exhonerating your undefined Western culture just yet.

All of this from some uneducated dolt who started off this entire thread by decrying teaching black kids about black history. Way to go John Locke! And I mean this John Locke:

Not this one:



Just helpin' you out.

   

Don't get me wrong I am completely with you on this. But I still don't think you get what VC means by immersion. Like in French Immersion, all classes are taught n french (except english of course.) They are at regular public schools. I think what VC is getting at is that it is not Illegal, but it just isn't funded because there is not enough demand for it.

   

Semites are Caucasians?

   

Illegal means not permissable under the law, right? Well it is not permitted under the law in Ontario for children to go to school in languages other than English or French.....

They can speak whatever language they want, but Ontario schools are not allowed to offer immersion programs in language other than English or French, period.

I.E. You can go to a school that teaches math, chemistry, biology, and sex ed all in French, but you can't go to a school that teaches those classes in Mandarin or Cantonese or German. You can take "German" class, but you can't take every class in German.

   

In Alberta kids can go to school and start kindergarton in Mandarin immersion, learning to share and play in Mandarin.......then go on to do Biology, Math, Chem, Physics, etc all in Mandarin....

I'm sure they would have to take an English Literature course in high school, but all other courses could be in Mandarin or other languages.....

That is not permitted under the law that dictates what school boards can and cannot offer in Ontario.

   

I'm not talking about religious education I'm talking about language education. I am getting close to becoming fluent in French, and I wish I was fluent in another language as well. I think it is a huge benefit to be multi-lingual and any kids who have the opportunity to take immersion in multiple languages will have a huge advantage in life....

you know if you go to google and type in "define: immersion" you might learn something.

   

And it is not a matter of funding.....Private schools can't offer an Immersion program that is designed to meet the pre-secondary and secondary education requirements if it is taught in a language other than English or French....

Its more like the government will not accredit them as schools that meet Ontario education requirements.

You can learn any language you want at a private school, but you can't take grade 3 math in Hebrew or Mandarin.

   

There are schools that people pay for for that VC. Way back in the day I remember someone going to a school for Chinese I think. It is allowed. Not in public schools however. Cause then it would become a funding problem, but in provate schools it is allowed.

   

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