Ontario is as much Quebec as Quebec is! Here are two pictures: one was a picture as to when the colony was taken.
http://www.canadiana.org/citm/imagepopu ... 759_e.html
Here is another picture of Quebec, after the 1774 Quebec Act was put in place by King George of Great Britain.
http://www.canadiana.org/citm/imagepopu ... 774_e.html
Check out the Act for yourself
http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Cana ... _1774.html
Today's Quebec certainly is not a reflection of the original Quebec, nor the Quebec that was put forward by King George. Quebec was eventually split into two, to become lower Canada (Quebec) and upper Canada(Ontario). When the Dominion of Canada was created Lower Canada and Upper Canada were joined to become one. All other provinces were eventually admitted to become the country we are today. Which came first, the chicken or the egg. Quebec or Canada, or is Quebec and Canada, one in the same? Can Quebec truly separate from itself? If Quebec were to go its own way should it not keep the name Canada?
It is only fitting that the PQ should represent all of Quebec as it was or should have been. Therefore the PQ should set its sites on establishing a presence in Ontario (or Quebec). However, you want to see it.
_747
Is this an attempt at being provocative? I certainly hope not because its desperate simplicity and historical unawareness reeks of amateurish intellectualism. In short: this kind of pigswill shouldn’t even warrant a response, but I’ll play regardless.
Firstly, look up the Quebec Act and then get back to me – I’m not here to educate the chronically unaware.
Secondly, look up the historical particulars regarding Confederation. This will hopefully eliminate such moronic statements like “When the Dominion of Canada was created Lower Canada and Upper Canada were joined to become one. All other provinces were eventually admitted to become the country we are today.” Damn, that junk would make elementary students weep.
Thirdly, etch this date and event in your feeble intellect: September 13, 1759, Plains of Abraham. Got it? Now explain to me exactly how New France wasn’t a conquered colony after this date – I’ll wait while you fumble with a response.
Did I make up those maps?
You are right the colony was lost in 1759. This was during the seven year war. There was no forces to defend it. France attempted to send ships but was blocked for one reason or another. However, France did make a move to get the colony back.
The land in Question, I once again refer to the picture.
http://www.canadiana.org/citm/imagepopu ... 759_e.html
How?
France provided the required military resources, the final victory, and the treaty that recognized the United States as a country. Why would France provide such help to the American colony? France wanted the colony of New France back and the United States agreed to deliver it. That may explain why the United States invaded Canada in 1812, but was beaten back without the help of France.
France's support for the American revolution cost France 2000 million livres. An amount that bankrupted France and threw France into it's revolution. This gave rise to NAPOLEON, you may have heard of him?
Napoleon Later sold Louisiana to the United States for 80 million livres. A pittance compared to the 2000 million Livres France paid out to achieve American Independence.
It should be indicated that the Americans tried to persuade the Francophones to join them in their fight for independence but the British Monarch responded by promising the Francophones Language rights, and the managing of their own affairs.
The Francophones of Canada or Quebec got lost in the shuffle of time. However the deal was made, and the Francophones are still waiting for the United States to deliver on it.
But in the mean time the PQ should represent all the lands in Question, including Ontario.
You may want to check out this link
http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Sthist.html
It talks about the statue of Liberty and why France gave it to the United States.
_747
Nice dodge! Was there a point in that gabled, largely ambiguous stream of historical minutiae?!? Louisiana was sold to the United States??? Really?!!? Thanks for the revelation, but where the hell is the relevance? What does this have to do with Quebec becoming a CONQUERED colony after its defeat at the hands of the British??!?? Stop surfing the net for research and READ A HISTORY BOOK!!!
If you like I could provide you numerous books as references to these assertions.
I realize you are in Historical denial, but none the less..
Questions:
Was there a French Colony?
Yes
What lands did it contain?
http://www.canadiana.org/citm/imagepopu ... 759_e.html
Did France help the United States achieve an independence that otherwise would not have been achieved without their help?
Undeniably yes, their failure in the war of 1812 is a testament to that fact.
Why would France help the United States?
They wanted back what they lost, The French Colony, New France, GET IT..
Did France fulfill its end of the Bargain?
Yes, undeniably so.
Has the United States lived up to their end of the Bargain?
NO, they have not, as the land in Question has not been duly returned.
Is the United States in position to honor this deal?
Absolutely, they are the lone superpower, and they went into Iraq without world approval. What would it be to the world if they developed the integrity to honor the agreement made, and in turn payed thanks for the gift they received: Freedom and Democracy.
Is history going anywhere?
History is not going anywhere. The truth is there if you truly want to see it. I see you are in Quebec (oh, Ontario if you like). Need I say the British or the loyalist that fled from the United States to Canada in the fight for independence of the United States are really the true enemies of the United States. The enemies of Freedom and Democracy.
Forget Iran, the United States has unfinished business to take care of, here, first.
At least I provide outside sources to substantiate what I put forward. What have you done to substantiate your position?
It's time for the PQ to become the guardians of the said lands, until some form of resolution is made, satisfactorily to the injured parties.
Continue to live in denial that is what anglo-canadians are good doing.
_747
Are you actually theorizing the idiotic notion that France helped the American Revolutionaries in their actions against British rule solely to gain back former New France?!? Huh? And you are foolishly diagnosing me as being in “historical denial”? Is that intellectual projection?
Let’s see how you fumble with the following HISTORICAL realities that seem to call into question your erroneous supposition: Why did Canadiens overwhelmingly declare neutrality during the American Revolutionary War if France was to help them become part of the Empire again? Why did the Continental Congress invade Quebec in 1775? According to your bastardization of history, these actions should have never occurred because of the Franco-American pact.
Secondly, New France ceased to exist on September 13, 1759. It became the British colony of Quebec and it no longer directly controlled its geography (as ambiguous as it was – you cowered away from this challenge!). It was British. Britain “made” Ontario. It wasn’t Quebec land – that ended the day it got its collective ass handed to it by Wolfe on the Plains of Abraham. Got it? Ontario is not Quebec, no more than New York is Dutch. Do you finally understand? Want some more clarification as I do feel sorry for the historically-challenged, short-bus passengers like you.
Lastly, you don’t get historical analysis. You are separatist simpleton trying his hand – badly, I might add – at historical revisionism. You don’t understand the realities of historical inquiry nor can you satisfactorily apply its lessons to discourse. You clearly didn’t provide a vast array of legitimate primary or secondary sources (you are lazy web-surfin’ dope) and yet you demand I do the very thing you can’t? Please. I used verifiable, objective, legitimate historical facts to substantiate my correct assertions – why not prove them wrong then? Go ahead, let’s see you cower from this challenge – I’ll await your dodge, and when you do, I predicted it.
Hmmm, why would the people in Lower Canada opt to help the Americans against the English? Hmmmmm. Couldn't have anything to do with not wanting to be totally surrounded by the country that defeated them could it? By this time, France has pretty much abandoned North America. The French you speak of are in Quebec. I'm sure the thought of being a speck in the middle of a big English continent must have scared the hell out of the average Francophone.
The loyalists did not flee the United States, as in fleeing the fight for independence. They were English subjects, who felt loyal to the crown. They wanted to remain in a land where the English crown still ruled. Is that so wrong? Most people feel loyalty to their home country. Why label these people as enemies of Freedom and democracy for having the same tendency as most other people?
It really is a small matter.
Ontario is Ontario.....
Not our fault the French have a habitof losing wars.Its getting to be their legecy.
747 you are just trying to cause shit so allow me to say fine.You did that.
Congrads
So the french in Quebec are a conquered race.Get over it and move on.
Besides its not like Quebec is being ruled under an iron curtain.
A simple argument I know and I could get into the battles and how Quebec city was saved from the Amercan Army by a snow storm and the who did what but in the end.England beat France,States beat England,Than States tied with England,and so on and so on.
Id like to see things get back to a more friendly state here folks... If you dont like a thread some one has started, then ignore it and stay away from it, if you must comment on it,, try to avoid the name calling and just state your rebuttal in a polite manner.. But calling other members idiots etc because you dont agree with what they posted is not a proper way to reply to a thread/post...
Hey, if Ontario rightfully belongs to Quebec, which was a French colony, shouldn't we give The Hudson's Bay Company (now HBC) all of the land that they owned? But wait, what about the time before the white man got here, doesn't the land actually belong to the aboriginal people? But weren't the animals here before them?
In conclusion, it is nonsense to think that Ontario belongs to Quebec, it rightfully belongs to the animals that once lived here and their decendants.
The point of my thread is simple, should the PQ expand to Ontario, given the various attitudes out there, I believe yes.
Point #1
The American Colony did not like the French colony, or vice versa, because of the Competing Fur Trade Routes.
Point #2
The colony was lost in 1759. And these are the said lands
http://www.canadiana.org/citm/imagepopu ... 759_e.html.
Point #3
The year 1776, The only reason the United States exists! Is because France helped them, and for no other reason, but to get the said lands back!
Hey Dan74 when you said "the french in Quebec are a conquered race" you were wrong, dude!
Who has ruled the country for all of modern history? Where are these people from? What do they speak in the halls of power?
The english won the battle, but who is winning the war?
IAM(also)CANADIAN