Sea Level Falling at Canadian ports.
Tricks @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:52 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
I use it against him here and you jump on it on the basis that it's from wikipedia. Not because it's flawed, not because it's wrong, but because it's from wikipedia. Weak. Then you go on to sycophanically parrot Bart's incorrect dismissal.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Even for highschool projects it was looked down upon to use it. Find me where it came from, then I might actually give it some credit.
hurley_108 @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:13 am
Tricks Tricks:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
I use it against him here and you jump on it on the basis that it's from wikipedia. Not because it's flawed, not because it's wrong, but because it's from wikipedia. Weak. Then you go on to sycophanically parrot Bart's incorrect dismissal.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Even for highschool projects it was looked down upon to use it. Find me where it came from, then I might actually give it some credit.And now you're pawning off your own laziness as a retort. You can't be bothered to do a little bit of looking and see that the chart is very well sourced. Here's a page which lists all the sources of all the lines:
http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Im ... arison_png
I'll select here the attribution and abstract for the red line, the one which shows the highest peak in the MWP, and also the lowest trough for the little ice age (in other words, the one that would be most dissimilar to the "hockey stick"):
$1:
Moberg, A., D.M. Sonechkin, K. Holmgren, N.M. Datsenko and W. Karlén (2005). "Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data". Nature 443: 613-617. DOI:10.1038/nature03265.
Abstract
"A number of reconstructions of millennial-scale climate variability have been carried out in order to understand patterns of natural climate variability, on decade to century timescales, and the role of anthropogenic forcing. These reconstructions have mainly used tree-ring data and other data sets of annual to decadal resolution. Lake and ocean sediments have a lower time resolution, but provide climate information at multicentennial timescales that may not be captured by tree-ring data. Here we reconstruct Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the past 2,000 years by combining low-resolution proxies with tree-ring data, using a wavelet transform technique11 to achieve timescale-dependent processing of the data. Our reconstruction shows larger multicentennial variability than most previous multi-proxy reconstructions, but agrees well with temperatures reconstructed from borehole measurements and with temperatures obtained with a general circulation model. According to our reconstruction, high temperatures—similar to those observed in the twentieth century before 1990—occurred around ad 1000 to 1100, and minimum temperatures that are about 0.7 K below the average of 1961–90 occurred around ad 1600. This large natural variability in the past suggests an important role of natural multicentennial variability that is likely to continue."
Abstract
"A number of reconstructions of millennial-scale climate variability have been carried out in order to understand patterns of natural climate variability, on decade to century timescales, and the role of anthropogenic forcing. These reconstructions have mainly used tree-ring data and other data sets of annual to decadal resolution. Lake and ocean sediments have a lower time resolution, but provide climate information at multicentennial timescales that may not be captured by tree-ring data. Here we reconstruct Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the past 2,000 years by combining low-resolution proxies with tree-ring data, using a wavelet transform technique11 to achieve timescale-dependent processing of the data. Our reconstruction shows larger multicentennial variability than most previous multi-proxy reconstructions, but agrees well with temperatures reconstructed from borehole measurements and with temperatures obtained with a general circulation model. According to our reconstruction, high temperatures—similar to those observed in the twentieth century before 1990—occurred around ad 1000 to 1100, and minimum temperatures that are about 0.7 K below the average of 1961–90 occurred around ad 1600. This large natural variability in the past suggests an important role of natural multicentennial variability that is likely to continue."
There are several other proxies in there but NONE show a temperature in the last 2000 years exceeding what is observed today.
Tricks @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:23 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Tricks Tricks:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
I use it against him here and you jump on it on the basis that it's from wikipedia. Not because it's flawed, not because it's wrong, but because it's from wikipedia. Weak. Then you go on to sycophanically parrot Bart's incorrect dismissal.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Even for highschool projects it was looked down upon to use it. Find me where it came from, then I might actually give it some credit.And now you're pawning off your own laziness as a retort. You can't be bothered to do a little bit of looking and see that the chart is very well sourced. Here's a page which lists all the sources of all the lines:
http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Im ... arison_png
I'll select here the attribution and abstract for the red line, the one which shows the highest peak in the MWP, and also the lowest trough for the little ice age (in other words, the one that would be most dissimilar to the "hockey stick"):
$1:
Moberg, A., D.M. Sonechkin, K. Holmgren, N.M. Datsenko and W. Karlén (2005). "Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data". Nature 443: 613-617. DOI:10.1038/nature03265.
Abstract
"A number of reconstructions of millennial-scale climate variability have been carried out in order to understand patterns of natural climate variability, on decade to century timescales, and the role of anthropogenic forcing. These reconstructions have mainly used tree-ring data and other data sets of annual to decadal resolution. Lake and ocean sediments have a lower time resolution, but provide climate information at multicentennial timescales that may not be captured by tree-ring data. Here we reconstruct Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the past 2,000 years by combining low-resolution proxies with tree-ring data, using a wavelet transform technique11 to achieve timescale-dependent processing of the data. Our reconstruction shows larger multicentennial variability than most previous multi-proxy reconstructions, but agrees well with temperatures reconstructed from borehole measurements and with temperatures obtained with a general circulation model. According to our reconstruction, high temperatures—similar to those observed in the twentieth century before 1990—occurred around ad 1000 to 1100, and minimum temperatures that are about 0.7 K below the average of 1961–90 occurred around ad 1600. This large natural variability in the past suggests an important role of natural multicentennial variability that is likely to continue."
Abstract
"A number of reconstructions of millennial-scale climate variability have been carried out in order to understand patterns of natural climate variability, on decade to century timescales, and the role of anthropogenic forcing. These reconstructions have mainly used tree-ring data and other data sets of annual to decadal resolution. Lake and ocean sediments have a lower time resolution, but provide climate information at multicentennial timescales that may not be captured by tree-ring data. Here we reconstruct Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the past 2,000 years by combining low-resolution proxies with tree-ring data, using a wavelet transform technique11 to achieve timescale-dependent processing of the data. Our reconstruction shows larger multicentennial variability than most previous multi-proxy reconstructions, but agrees well with temperatures reconstructed from borehole measurements and with temperatures obtained with a general circulation model. According to our reconstruction, high temperatures—similar to those observed in the twentieth century before 1990—occurred around ad 1000 to 1100, and minimum temperatures that are about 0.7 K below the average of 1961–90 occurred around ad 1600. This large natural variability in the past suggests an important role of natural multicentennial variability that is likely to continue."
There are several other proxies in there but NONE show a temperature in the last 2000 years exceeding what is observed today.
That's better though.
Carry on.
hurley_108 @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:31 am
Tricks Tricks:
I should have to dig for a credible source for something you provide
I'm going to assume you meant to word that sentence there a little differently. You didn't have to dig very far, though. Clicking on the chart on the wikipedia page brings up a list of the proxies, with links to the articles they come from.
$1:
genius.
Thank you!
$1:
That's better though.
Carry on.
Carry on.
You have a rare talent for being able to be smug even in defeat....
Tricks @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:37 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
I'm going to assume you meant to word that sentence there a little differently. You didn't have to dig very far, though. Clicking on the chart on the wikipedia page brings up a list of the proxies, with links to the articles they come from.
Which I didn't know. From my experiences it just blows it up and thats it. $1:
You have a rare talent for being able to be smug even in defeat....
It's a gift, and what defeat? I asked for a better source, you gave it. If that's a defeat... Jebus...
sasquatch2 @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:08 am
Scepticsm is the logical result of such widespread acceptance and fanaticism to defend science fiction presented a science.
Sadly, academic credentials, etc are no longer any indication of veracity.
Somehow, the notion is widespread that climatologists are apolitical and automatically infalible.
Bruce_the_vii @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:31 pm
I was over at the Ignatiieff forum site during the late Liberal leadership race and this guy, I kid you not, posted at how he lived a energy conscious live style to conserve CO2. Very server, didn't do anything that produced CO2 if he could help it.
RUEZ @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:40 pm
Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:
I was over at the Ignatiieff forum site during the late Liberal leadership race and this guy, I kid you not, posted at how he lived a energy conscious live style to conserve CO2. Very server, didn't do anything that produced CO2 if he could help it.
How did he post his message on the internet? Mental telepathy?
ziggy @ Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:24 pm
RUEZ RUEZ:
Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:
I was over at the Ignatiieff forum site during the late Liberal leadership race and this guy, I kid you not, posted at how he lived a energy conscious live style to conserve CO2. Very server, didn't do anything that produced CO2 if he could help it.
How did he post his message on the internet? Mental telepathy?Currant bush.
baylee @ Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:47 am
sasquatch2 sasquatch2:
Antarctica has been chilling off for about 35 years. The experts excuse for the Ozone hole getting bigger, despite the many years of banned CFCs is because of the cold weather......
They predict the Arctic will develope a hole as well, due to the secret (IPCC concealed) current Arctic chilling.
The Antarctic and Greenland Icecaps are growing thicker-
You really are a laugh there woman.
The way you make things up though is a talent in itself.
ShepherdsDog @ Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:49 am
That's rich, you accusing someone else of making something up.
Wullu @ Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:14 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Tricks Tricks:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
I use it against him here and you jump on it on the basis that it's from wikipedia. Not because it's flawed, not because it's wrong, but because it's from wikipedia. Weak. Then you go on to sycophanically parrot Bart's incorrect dismissal.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Even for highschool projects it was looked down upon to use it. Find me where it came from, then I might actually give it some credit.And now you're pawning off your own laziness as a retort. You can't be bothered to do a little bit of looking and see that the chart is very well sourced. Here's a page which lists all the sources of all the lines:
.
Tricks is doing no such thing. What he is doing is insist that you get off your lazy butt and stop typing "wiki" into your search engine of choice.
baylee @ Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:27 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
That's rich, you accusing someone else of making something up.
If that were meant for me, what exactly have I made up?
biopiracy @ Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:23 am
baylee baylee:
sasquatch2 sasquatch2:
Antarctica has been chilling off for about 35 years. The experts excuse for the Ozone hole getting bigger, despite the many years of banned CFCs is because of the cold weather......
They predict the Arctic will develope a hole as well, due to the secret (IPCC concealed) current Arctic chilling.
The Antarctic and Greenland Icecaps are growing thicker-
You really are a laugh there woman.
The way you make things up though is a talent in itself.
$1:
Antarctica has been chilling off for about 35 years. The experts excuse for the Ozone hole getting bigger, despite the many years of banned CFCs is because of the cold weather......
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookin ... ecord.html
$1:
The Antarctic and Greenland Icecaps are growing thicker-
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookin ... ngice.html
baylee baylee:
The way you make things up though is a talent in itself.
And what does the baylee offer for proof, her word,
biopiracy @ Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:50 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
scarecrowe scarecrowe:
Scientists studying ploar ice in Antarctica have demonstrated that the earth has not been this warm as it is today since 140,000 years ago. Was there an industrial revolution on 140,000 years ago that we are unaware of? Were there billions of humans on the planet at that time? Was open-air cooking over campfires the problem? Was hamburger consumption an issue then?
Hmmm, the wool being pulled over my eyes is getting ... itchy. Scratch that thought.
Hmmm, the wool being pulled over my eyes is getting ... itchy. Scratch that thought.
The earth was warmer just 1,000 years ago.
Nope:
Note that the 2004 temperature is almost half a degree higher than the highest estimate of the peak of the MWP.
Note also that this is the chart you said yesterday was a good one for historical temperatures.
and where did that chart come from,....
the same people who did this, and they are not worried about science. Marketing maybe but not science.
There's a lot more at http://www.climateaudit.org/ and Steve has several threads on your graph and others like it I think they IPCC had the MWP in one in the 1990s then it went away without an explanation of course because thats how real science works.
hurley_108
this links for you.
http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/05/decay ... id-it.html
if you just use the data in red you can prove whatever you want.
The new Mann paper,
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1810
Tricks Tricks:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
I use it against him here and you jump on it on the basis that it's from wikipedia. Not because it's flawed, not because it's wrong, but because it's from wikipedia. Weak. Then you go on to sycophanically parrot Bart's incorrect dismissal.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Even for highschool projects it was looked down upon to use it. Find me where it came from, then I might actually give it some credit.from wikipedia.
"The Wrong Dishonourable Paul Edgar Cuntface Philippe Martin,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... d=37593929
Never saw writing like that in the Britannica.