What's so great about diversity?
$1:
I've got little time for the quibbles of ivory tower intellectuals educated beyond all possible usefulness, or various identity groups trying to out-victim each other. However, I see rising overt naziism as a more immediate threat.
And I agree, there's an apathy that comes from successful empire. The fruit rots on the vine, the society becomes more insular, obsessed with itself. As a conservative perhaps you see moral decay as the primary cause. Myself, I see a growing gap between the rich and the rest of the people as the primary cause. More specifically you have apolitical system all but completely co-opted by corporate interests.
I agree that fascism is the more immediate threat, but there’s been too much “communism wasn’t so bad” revisionism going on. I find the whole “communism is better that fascism” logic to be akin to expressing a preference for one type of terminal cancer over another. And the problem is that the presence of one always brings out the other. Where fascism thrives, so does communism, and vice versa. The next civil war in the US, if there is one, will look more like the Spanish one than their own previous one.
There is nobody touting communism as a model. Just because we think it’s time for the US to stop beating up on Cuba doesnt mean we want communism here.
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
There is nobody touting communism as a model. Just because we think it’s time for the US to stop beating up on Cuba doesnt mean we want communism here.
You are not the entire left, or even the entire Canadian left. Those university SJWs and their ____ Studies professors have most definitely forgotten the lessons of the Cold War era. At least the kiddies have the excuse of not having lived through it.
herbie herbie:
WTF are you asking for, it's 2017?
I'm fucking OLD and everybody's parents or grandparents spoke a different language and/or dressed funny when I was a kid. I'm talking back in the 1950s an 1960s.
And what's it got to do with 'progressives'?
If you're elementary classmates weren't all different colours then you're the fucking wierdo. FOAD.
I don't know where you grew up, but I never had a non-white person in any of my classes until junior high. We had one Lebanese guy (who I hated) and I didn't even know what he was because I'd never run into a Lebanese guy or any other Arab before. I grew up in Montreal and Ottawa.
herbie herbie:
The people who want to discuss diversity are the ones that think there's some sort of 'problem' with it.
Usually ones resentful they can't force their narrow-minded beliefs on everyone else, just as beaver points out.
The people who start calling names because they don't want something discussed are the narrow minded ones, clearly resentful that they haven't got the intellectual ability to discuss issues rationally.
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
If someone immigrates here from a foreign country and doesn't learn the language, it annoys me but it doesn't really affect me. The person who is burdened here is the immigrant who has chosen to try and survive in a world where they can't understand what anyone is saying and can't even read basic signs. Me? My life goes on unaffected. Why should I be outraged?
That argument only works until the numbers of newcomers reaches a tilting point where they can quite comfortably survive in their own language, and where, indeed, a native born person who speaks only English finds him or herself disadvantaged by being surrounded by these 'new Canadians' speaking a language he or she cannot understand, and who naturally give hiring preference to those of their own ethnic group.
See Richmond BC as an example.
You're also leaving out the corollary. What happens when your culture and values conflicts with the culture and values of the newcomer and many in the newcomer group resist assimilation? That inevitably creates friction, and when the group which does not conform gets larger and larger the friction does too. Of course I'm talking about Muslims here.
herbie @ Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:43 pm
Yeah we know. They're not white.
FYI nobody considered the Ukranians, Poles, Italians and Hungarians who came here before "white" either.
Or the Japanese, Chinese, Sikhs, Pakistans and others who weren't 'christians".
Their cultures conflicted with your American cheese and Miracle Whip on Wonder bread idea of culture too.
The wogs start in Calais.
I remember, during Britex a show about pro-Britex people in England. In London they were all aflame about South Asian-African-Muslim-etc. In East Anglia they were short of dark skinned people so the Britexers were upset by Poles. You know- blond, blue eyed, Christian Poles. They were even upset the the Blue Eyed Bastards were setting up BUSINESSES. How dare those usurpers!
Haters gotta hate.
herbie herbie:
Yeah we know. They're not white.
FYI nobody considered the Ukranians, Poles, Italians and Hungarians who came here before "white" either.
Or the Japanese, Chinese, Sikhs, Pakistans and others who weren't 'christians".
Their cultures conflicted with your American cheese and Miracle Whip on Wonder bread idea of culture too.
“Mangiacake” culture in Canada is as valid as any other. Sort of hypocritical for you to be dumping on it in this way, don’t you think?
Sort of the same way that identity politics advocates portray gender as a smooth continuum rather than an imperfect binary, except when pausing to take shots at cis-gendered males as a collective.
The other problem with this nonsense is that it takes attention away from the left’s legitimate points on income distribution. The Toronto Star has doubled down on identity politics since Haroon Siddiqui retired, with the likes of Shree Parkadar and Azeezah Kanji spewing out ever more over-the-top accusations of system racism, sexism and fill-in-the-blank-phobia. Really, of the Star’s columnists, only Linda McQuaig has consistently kept her eye on the “go after the rich” ball. The rest are either wading or full-blown swimming in the toxic pool of identity politics.
herbie herbie:
Yeah we know. They're not white.
FYI nobody considered the Ukranians, Poles, Italians and Hungarians who came here before "white" either.
Or the Japanese, Chinese, Sikhs, Pakistans and others who weren't 'christians".
Their cultures conflicted with your American cheese and Miracle Whip on Wonder bread idea of culture too.
And this whole “we’re not against people who are white, just whiteness” weasel-logic from identity politics advocates is pretty much just arguing that all notions of ethnocultural identity are valid except for the one they happen not to like. They use as a justification the inconsistent use of the term “white” you describe above. What then is a valid “identity” for Caucasians of mixed European heritage living in Canada? It doesn’t make sense for someone who’s a quarter Scottish and splinters of various other ethnicities to be made to say “I am a Scot”. The very terms “people of colour” or “racialized people” creates a negative space which is not allowed in the eyes of these activists to project its own legitimate identity.
I guess that’s what happens when you over-intellectualize resentment and revenge fantasies and dress it up as “inclusion”.
Vbeacher Vbeacher:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
If someone immigrates here from a foreign country and doesn't learn the language, it annoys me but it doesn't really affect me. The person who is burdened here is the immigrant who has chosen to try and survive in a world where they can't understand what anyone is saying and can't even read basic signs. Me? My life goes on unaffected. Why should I be outraged?
That argument only works until the numbers of newcomers reaches a tilting point where they can quite comfortably survive in their own language, and where, indeed, a native born person who speaks only English finds him or herself disadvantaged by being surrounded by these 'new Canadians' speaking a language he or she cannot understand, and who naturally give hiring preference to those of their own ethnic group.
See Richmond BC as an example.
You're also leaving out the corollary. What happens when your culture and values conflicts with the culture and values of the newcomer and many in the newcomer group resist assimilation? That inevitably creates friction, and when the group which does not conform gets larger and larger the friction does too. Of course I'm talking about Muslims here.
To your first point I think it’s an exaggeration to say they’re living comfortably. They might be able to get by but not that easily. There aren’t that many jobs you can get if you can’t speak read or write English. Maybe picking fruit or shoveling shit but probably not jobs that Canadians would do.
To the second point what is the definition of “assimilation”? Do you mean enforcing existing the laws and charter rights because that already happens. And here in Canada while there of course have been extremists we don’t really have that much friction with Muslim community in general like in other western countries. At age 40, I’m young enough to have had Muslim classmates and coworkers my whole life and the only people I’ve ever known who conflict with our culture by endorsing or tolerating executions, torture, killing civilians, mandatory religious instruction or theocratic government have been white Christian conservatives.
Vbeacher Vbeacher:
[See Richmond BC as an example.
What's wrong with Richmond? Apart from the fact that the city and road planners there should be shot?