19 hurt in New Orleans Mother's Day parade shooting
BartSimpson @ Mon May 13, 2013 9:58 am
fifeboy fifeboy:
$1:
You don't have any African-American populations of any significance. We do.
Come on Bart. That's like saying that "if you only counted Harvard Grads the U.S. would have the best educated people in the world, or if you only counted people who were not sick, we would have the healthiest population on earth." Blacks and Hispanics are Americans!
The observation was that Canada and the Netherlands don't have a crime problem that is noted in the article as being sourced from African-American street gangs.
I'm simply stating the obvious fact that the Netherlands and Canada do not have significant populations of these people.
That's all. I didn't say anyone else was better, I didn't propose a genocide, I just stated a widely available fact that gets published in the FBI's annual report on the Status on Violent Crime in America.
If you or anyone else objects to a quantifiable fact then that is your personal problem and you'll find me strenuously objecting to being smeared as a racist for stating a known-fact.
Public_Domain @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:03 am
Bart, I thought you were a self-declared white supremacist, or some other sort of wording of such, and a proud Stormfront account holder?
I remember some argument a long while back where some user was peddling Stormfront crap and you stated things to the effect of a sentiment that white people should be proud of their skin colour, actively fight for it's cause, and that segregation may not be a bad idea. (Something about races sticking to "their own kind" and operating their own "homeland")
Correct me, I may have you confused with another user.
EDIT: Confused Bart with a user named Chagrin.
Thanos @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:04 am
andyt andyt:
It's a two way street. For Canadians it's Natives that commit violent crimes in far greater proportion than their numbers. For blacks and Natives (did I get the capitalization right?) racism put them there. So we have to do our part in helping them move beyond that, do more than just denigrate them. OTOH, we know about the myths the Natives are telling themselves that keep them stuck - those need to be addressed too, as does the reserve system. Likely there's a similar effort required by American blacks. I think whitey has to make the first move tho. For American blacks, the stick already exists - half of all prison inmates are black. Time for a carrot that actually helps people up, doesn't just keep them stuck.
There you guys go with all that "we" talk again. There is no "we" here at all. "We've" done enough for them, just on the basis of money spent (and literally wasted for the most part) alone. If they aren't going to finally step up and fix their own lives then to hell with the lot of them. Slavery's long gone (and was paid for in spades with the spilled blood of about a half-million Union soldiers), welfare money keeps being given out willy-nilly, and there's a million different free education programs provided by all levels of government out there for anyone who wants to take advantage of them. Some criminal hiding behind accusations of racism just so he can justify being a worthless asshole his entire life is less than pathetic.
fifeboy @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:04 am
andyt andyt:
It's a two way street. For Canadians it's Natives that commit violent crimes in far greater proportion than their numbers. For blacks and Natives (did I get the capitalization right?) racism put them there. So we have to do our part in helping them move beyond that, do more than just denigrate them. OTOH, we know about the myths the Natives are telling themselves that keep them stuck - those need to be addressed too, as does the reserve system. Likely there's a similar effort required by American blacks. I think whitey has to make the first move tho. For American blacks, the stick already exists - half of all prison inmates are black. Time for a carrot that actually helps people up, doesn't just keep them stuck.
Zipperfish @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:05 am
fifeboy fifeboy:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Brenda Brenda:
You should come up with a good plan to make sure shit like this doesn't happen anymore. I don't know, but I never hear about this here in Canada, or in The Netherlands, for that matter.
You don't have any African-American populations of any significance. We do.
Not to mention that obviously we're not going to have an African-Americans in Canada. They'd be African-Canadians.
Thanos @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:07 am
Public_Domain Public_Domain:
Bart, I thought you were a self-declared white supremacist, or some other sort of wording of such, and a proud Stormfront account holder?
I remember some argument a long while back where some user was peddling Stormfront crap and you stated things to the effect of a sentiment that white people should be proud of their skin colour, actively fight for it's cause, and that segregation may not be a bad idea. (Something about races sticking to "their own kind" and operating their own "homeland")
Correct me, I may have you confused with another user.
I remember some argument a long while back where some user was peddling Stormfront crap and you stated things to the effect of a sentiment that white people should be proud of their skin colour, actively fight for it's cause, and that segregation may not be a bad idea. (Something about races sticking to "their own kind" and operating their own "homeland")
Correct me, I may have you confused with another user.
Possibly me, though I might have been doing it just to cause trouble. The stats about crime and race don't lie though, even if the Stormfront guys usually warp them into something else for their own political purposes.
andyt @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:07 am
Thanos Thanos:
If they aren't going to finally step up and fix their own lives then to hell with the lot of them.
Unfortunately they will stay right here and make this place hell. If only there were some final solution, eh? Better for us to accept that we have played and continue to play a role in the situation and do our part. And it's not welfare as commonly thought of - that just keeps people trapped. It's investing a lot more money up front to get people off welfare, living productive lives. Of course then you'd have to have productive jobs for them, something we're not really doing so well on, since we'd rather import people to do them.
Public_Domain @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:10 am
It wasn't you Thanos, I'm at least 95% sure it wasn't.
It wasn't to cause trouble, there was a user (was/is a regular) who was defending the originating post (some newbie) from the cries of racism. Then they went onto a tangent that was pretty racist.
fifeboy @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:12 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
The observation was that Canada and the Netherlands don't have a crime problem that is noted in the article as being sourced from African-American street gangs.
I'm simply stating the obvious fact that the Netherlands and Canada do not have significant populations of these people.
That's all. I didn't say anyone else was better, I didn't propose a genocide, I just stated a widely available fact that gets published in the FBI's annual report on the Status on Violent Crime in America.
If you or anyone else objects to a quantifiable fact then that is your personal problem and you'll find me strenuously objecting to being smeared as a racist for stating a known-fact.
And Bart, like I have said before, you appear to have never spent much time on a First Nations Reserve.
Gunnair @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:16 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Brenda Brenda:
You should come up with a good plan to make sure shit like this doesn't happen anymore. I don't know, but I never hear about this here in Canada, or in The Netherlands, for that matter.
You don't have any African-American populations of any significance. We do.
Oh those pesky coloureds, eh?
raydan @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:16 am
Maybe we should replace this...
What your post did was imply that without African/Hispanic Americans the stats would show that America was a peaceful place. My reply was that you can't do that, as they ARE Americans and therefore part of both the problem and the solution.
By this...
What your post did was imply that without poor and uneducated Americans the stats would show that America was a peaceful place. My reply was that you can't do that, as they ARE Americans and therefore part of both the problem and the solution.
Public_Domain @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:22 am
Having looked through several posts, I believe I have confused Bart with someone else; my apologies for that.
On-topic however, the sentiment here is disgraceful. No one is denying "the numbers and facts", just how you choose to paint them. No one lives in a vacuum. For there to be a fire, there needs to be fuel. There are reasons African Americans in the US and Natives in Canada are more highly responsible for violence and incarceration than "whites"; violence is not something that belongs int he blood of any particular race or creed. If there is an ultraviolence about a group of people, instead of considering that to be a "natural" facet of their racial personality, perhaps examine the social issues that create individuals who are violent. Statistically, as human beings, crime from racial groups should be even. Figure out why it's not.
If you feel that their violence is not caused by social ills in your country and mine, then I feel it is appropriate to call you a white supremacist because you feel that their violence is a factor entirely produced by their racial blood and further believe that white people are "more civilized" and more deserving of being considered fully human.
"Paid more than enough" is not a sentiment that's going to change our social ills anytime soon.
fifeboy @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:23 am
The other thing that bothers me about the Black people/crime thing is it just does not seem to hold water in Canada. Toronto has the highest levels of Black population in Canada but according to McLean's, it's #52 in violent crime in the country. Saskatoon and Regina, where blacks are as scarce as hen's teeth are near the top of the chart??? Of course, in Regina and Saskatoon, all the black people I have met are professionals with good jobs and families to support, but that can't have anything to do with it, could it?
andyt @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:25 am
Nice try, Ray, but Bart's post implied blacks were the problem, no mention of poverty. Poverty as a cause of violence and crime doesn't really fit into Bart's world view. Or, let's say that he believes it's the poor's own damn fault, and if they can't fly right just pack them all off to jail. Except even the US right wing is starting to back off that "solution." Tried it, hasn't worked. Costs too much.
Of course there is a way to make it pay. Just read a book that talked about the slavery system in the South being replaced by the prisoner system - ie put poor (black) people in jail and work the hell out of them for cheap. And not just long ago - for all I know it still works that way.
andyt @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:27 am
Public_Domain Public_Domain:
Having looked through several posts, I believe I have confused Bart with someone else; my apologies for that.
On-topic however, the sentiment here is disgraceful. No one is denying "the numbers and facts", just how you choose to paint them. No one lives in a vacuum. For there to be a fire, there needs to be fuel. There are reasons African Americans in the US and Natives in Canada are more highly responsible for violence and incarceration than "whites"; violence is not something that belongs int he blood of any particular race or creed. If there is an ultraviolence about a group of people, instead of considering that to be a "natural" facet of their racial personality, perhaps examine the social issues that create individuals who are violent. Statistically, as human beings, crime from racial groups should be even. Figure out why it's not.
If you feel that their violence is not caused by social ills in your country and mine, then I feel it is appropriate to call you a white supremacist because you feel that their violence is a factor entirely produced by their racial blood and further believe that white people are "more civilized" and more deserving of being considered fully human.
"Paid more than enough" is not a sentiment that's going to change our social ills anytime soon.
On-topic however, the sentiment here is disgraceful. No one is denying "the numbers and facts", just how you choose to paint them. No one lives in a vacuum. For there to be a fire, there needs to be fuel. There are reasons African Americans in the US and Natives in Canada are more highly responsible for violence and incarceration than "whites"; violence is not something that belongs int he blood of any particular race or creed. If there is an ultraviolence about a group of people, instead of considering that to be a "natural" facet of their racial personality, perhaps examine the social issues that create individuals who are violent. Statistically, as human beings, crime from racial groups should be even. Figure out why it's not.
If you feel that their violence is not caused by social ills in your country and mine, then I feel it is appropriate to call you a white supremacist because you feel that their violence is a factor entirely produced by their racial blood and further believe that white people are "more civilized" and more deserving of being considered fully human.
"Paid more than enough" is not a sentiment that's going to change our social ills anytime soon.