19 hurt in New Orleans Mother's Day parade shooting
martin14 @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:41 am
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
I agree with Thanos and Andy, actually. Certain races/cultures cause more violence than others in certain contexts. I only know England, Canada and America, but I imagine the problem is universal. The thing that makes my balls contract is when someone turns around and points at the black race or the native race and says to them all: you guys are the problem; what are you going to do about it? I've just never seen anything constructive come out of that.
The problem seems to arise when you get an appreciable minority, a "threatening minority," if you will--Italian and Irish gangs in New York, East Indian and Asian gangs in Vancouver, Hutus in Somalia, or (at the rosk of Godwinning) Jews in Germany. I don't think it is related to race, per se; that is, I don't think there is a signficant physiological reason that would make blacks more inclined to violence. I think it's a clash of cultures. Even where there is no obvious race differential present, the problem persists--Protestants and Catholics, Sunnis and Shi'ites.
The problem, to my mind, may well be hard-wired.
The problem seems to arise when you get an appreciable minority, a "threatening minority," if you will--Italian and Irish gangs in New York, East Indian and Asian gangs in Vancouver, Hutus in Somalia, or (at the rosk of Godwinning) Jews in Germany. I don't think it is related to race, per se; that is, I don't think there is a signficant physiological reason that would make blacks more inclined to violence. I think it's a clash of cultures. Even where there is no obvious race differential present, the problem persists--Protestants and Catholics, Sunnis and Shi'ites.
The problem, to my mind, may well be hard-wired.
Rwanda.
And yes, people are hard wired for it.
Race, religion, language, culture, gender, money, hockey teams.
Always 'us and 'them.
Zipperfish @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:43 am
martin14 martin14:
Always 'us and 'them.
Somebody should write a song about that.
ShepherdsDog @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:46 am
Public_Domain Public_Domain:
It wasn't you Thanos, I'm at least 95% sure it wasn't.
It wasn't to cause trouble, there was a user (was/is a regular) who was defending the originating post (some newbie) from the cries of racism. Then they went onto a tangent that was pretty racist.
It wasn't to cause trouble, there was a user (was/is a regular) who was defending the originating post (some newbie) from the cries of racism. Then they went onto a tangent that was pretty racist.
Just find it interesting that you take Bart to task for advocating the elimination of a group based on ethnicity or religion, yet you've openly advocated the elimination of groups based on their political and economic beliefs, or eliminationg those who would disagree with your great march/leap/stumble elsewhere. You had your nose rubbed in it and were given the newspaper. As far as we all know, it's just fantasy talk, but it's all equally reprehensible.
andyt @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:46 am
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
The problem seems to arise when you get an appreciable minority, a "threatening minority," if you will--Italian and Irish gangs in New York, East Indian and Asian gangs in Vancouver, Hutus in Somalia, or (at the rosk of Godwinning) Jews in Germany. I don't think it is related to race, per se; that is, I don't think there is a signficant physiological reason that would make blacks more inclined to violence. I think it's a clash of cultures. Even where there is no obvious race differential present, the problem persists--Protestants and Catholics, Sunnis and Shi'ites.
The problem, to my mind, may well be hard-wired.
The problem, to my mind, may well be hard-wired.
Never heard about a Jewish gang problem in Germany. Unless you mean that the minority becomes threatening to the majority? But the black underclass in the US is real, as is the violence and crime they commit. So I'm not following your logic here - by your logic there should have been a serious Jewish gang problem in pre-WWII German. So just minority status can't be hardwired to produce violence. It's if that minority is turned into an underclass. When there's no different race to do it to, you do it on the basis of religion or other cultural differences, or just plain, as in Victorian England, that the poor are poor because they are morally deficient and deserve it. Those poor were all white.
The problem is a system of winners and losers. We can blame the losers and create an underclass that festers, or we can take the Scandinavian approach which ameliorates the effects of losing and has much less crime and violence associated with it. Costs money up front, saves money at the back end in lower criminal and health system costs.
ShepherdsDog @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:48 am
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
martin14 martin14:
Always 'us and 'them.
Somebody should write a song about that.
We didn't start the fire??
Hell chimps engage in tribal warfare as do lions and hyaenas.
Public_Domain @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:49 am
Race and sex are the only two things in that list that are "hardwired" the rest is subjective and learnt behaviour developed from social sources, which I'd consider "softwiring". Pointing to a specific race as an endemic social cancer won't solve the problems that have come from environments.
Raydan's rewording of that post from racial groups to low-income groups is bang on.
EDIT: spelling
ShepherdsDog @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:50 am
andyt andyt:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
The problem seems to arise when you get an appreciable minority, a "threatening minority," if you will--Italian and Irish gangs in New York, East Indian and Asian gangs in Vancouver, Hutus in Somalia, or (at the rosk of Godwinning) Jews in Germany. I don't think it is related to race, per se; that is, I don't think there is a signficant physiological reason that would make blacks more inclined to violence. I think it's a clash of cultures. Even where there is no obvious race differential present, the problem persists--Protestants and Catholics, Sunnis and Shi'ites.
The problem, to my mind, may well be hard-wired.
The problem, to my mind, may well be hard-wired.
Never heard about a Jewish gang problem in Germany. Unless you mean that the minority becomes threatening to the majority? But the black underclass in the US is real, as is the violence and crime they commit. So I'm not following your logic here - by your logic there should have been a serious Jewish gang problem in pre-WWII German. So just minority status can't be hardwired to produce violence. It's if that minority is turned into an underclass. When there's no different race to do it to, you do it on the basis of religion or other cultural differences, or just plain, as in Victorian England, that the poor are poor because they are morally deficient and deserve it. Those poor were all white.
The problem is a system of winners and losers. We can blame the losers and create an underclass that festers, or we can take the Scandinavian approach which ameliorates the effects of losing and has much less crime and violence associated with it. Costs money up front, saves money at the back end in lower criminal and health system costs.
Jews were involved in criminal organizations......they are called investment banks
andyt @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:50 am
Gender is socially constructed as well. You mean sex, as in DNA.
Public_Domain @ Mon May 13, 2013 10:55 am
Yes, thanks andy, just using the term (incorrectly) in the interchangable context martin used.
Brenda @ Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
fifeboy fifeboy:
$1:
You don't have any African-American populations of any significance. We do.
Come on Bart. That's like saying that "if you only counted Harvard Grads the U.S. would have the best educated people in the world, or if you only counted people who were not sick, we would have the healthiest population on earth." Blacks and Hispanics are Americans!
The observation was that Canada and the Netherlands don't have a crime problem that is noted in the article as being sourced from African-American street gangs.
I'm simply stating the obvious fact that the Netherlands and Canada do not have significant populations of these people.
That's all. I didn't say anyone else was better, I didn't propose a genocide, I just stated a widely available fact that gets published in the FBI's annual report on the Status on Violent Crime in America.
If you or anyone else objects to a quantifiable fact then that is your personal problem and you'll find me strenuously objecting to being smeared as a racist for stating a known-fact.
Every country has their street-gang/drugs or whatever problem/crime. The 'gangs' just have a different 'color', 'race' or 'religion'. Canada as well as the Netherlands just do not have the easy access to fire arms.
BartSimpson @ Mon May 13, 2013 11:20 am
fifeboy fifeboy:
And Bart, like I have said before, you appear to have never spent much time on a First Nations Reserve.
And why would I? When I'm in Canada I have better things to do.
Now ask me if I've been to the reservation of the Yocha Dehe Wintun Nation and I can say with authority that I have. They're great people and their Tribal Police are polite, effective, and disturbingly intuitive.
They also have fixed up the place quite nicely. Here's their neighborhood:
andyt @ Mon May 13, 2013 11:22 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Toronto has a definite problem with Juh MAY kunz....funny you never really hear about probles from other groups from the Caribbean.
Yes, because we import poor single mothers to act as nannies for Canadians and then give them citizenship. Ie we are importing an underclass - makes no sense at all. And the skin color of those folks has nothing to do with their behavior. Also plenty of Jamaicans who do just fine.
BartSimpson @ Mon May 13, 2013 11:26 am
andyt andyt:
Poverty as an excuse for violence and crime doesn't really fit into Bart's world view.
Exactly.
raydan @ Mon May 13, 2013 11:27 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
And why would I? When I'm in Canada I have better things to do.
Now ask me if I've been to the reservation of the Yocha Dehe Wintun Nation and I can say with authority that I have. They're great people and their Tribal Police are polite, effective, and disturbingly intuitive.
They also have fixed up the place quite nicely. Here's their neighborhood:
Now ask me if I've been to the reservation of the Yocha Dehe Wintun Nation and I can say with authority that I have. They're great people and their Tribal Police are polite, effective, and disturbingly intuitive.
They also have fixed up the place quite nicely. Here's their neighborhood:
I've been on the Cherokee reservation in NC, not as nice as yours.
andyt @ Mon May 13, 2013 11:27 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
andyt andyt:
Poverty as an excuse for violence and crime doesn't really fit into Bart's world view.
Exactly.
What's your solution, Bart?