BREAKING: Big High School Shooting In Florida Today
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BeaverFever @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:28 am
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
xerxes xerxes:
Psst. There was an armed guard at the high school in Parkland. Didn’t matter.
Really? Where was he then?
Here's how it's done when it's done right.
Israel proves the NRA's arguments
$1:
Newsweek praised Israel for obligating its citizens to "show genuine cause to carry a firearm, such as self-defense or hunting". The message is clear: Israel has the right approach in curtailing access to firearms, and the United States would be well advised to tread the same path.
In reality, Israel's gun policy is living proof of the arguments the American gun lobby has been making for years.
Gun rights advocates contend that the way to stop mass shootings is by ensuring that there are always well-armed citizens present who can neutralize the shooter. As NRA chairman Wayne Lapierre always says, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". A bedrock of the NRA's philosophy is that criminals will always acquire guns illegally, and draconian gun laws only render law-abiding citizens defenseless.
When the knife intifada erupted in September 2015, the Israeli government's response was to ease the process for the civilian populace to obtain weapons.
Enter Israel: When the knife intifada erupted in September 2015, the Israeli government's response was to ease the process for the civilian populace to obtain weapons. After a particularly bloody Jerusalem shooting attack that killed four, then-Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan drastically changed the gun laws in order to significantly raise the number of armed civilians on the streets. Instantly, graduates of Special Forces units and IDF officers with the rank of Lieutenant and above were permitted to purchase guns at their will, security guards were allowed to bring their guns home after work, and the minimum age for a license was reduced from 21 to 18.
Erdan explained that "civilians well trained in the use of weapons provide reinforcement in the struggle against terrorism", while Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat called for every resident to carry a gun, and was even photographed traveling the city carrying a Glock 23.
In addition, the overwhelming majority of terror attacks in Israel are stopped by armed civilians, not law enforcement. For example, the terrorists in the 2016 Sarona market attack were stopped by armed passersby. A pistol-carrying tour guide put an end to the 2017 ramming attack in Arnona that left four soldiers dead.
In Israeli eyes, guns are a valuable deterrent against terrorism. In fact, terrorists have told the Shin Bet internal security service that they often target haredi Jews due to the high likelihood that they are unarmed.
Gun control supporters would answer that the mandatory military service that every Israeli undergoes justifies the trust Israel has of its citizens. However, this argument doesn't hold water. The vast majority of IDF soldiers aren't combat soldiers and are certified as 02 riflemen. To be 02 requires one to shoot between 40 and 70 bullets. The pistol course needed to obtain a license takes less than four hours. It is a far cry from the highly trained population that the Left imagines.
Gun control has been proven to be a dismal failure in Israel. The Israeli Arab communities are rife with illegal weapons, with some police estimates putting the number of unlicensed weapons in the Arab sector as high as 500,000. Think about that for a second: The most heavily guarded borders in the world and a highly professional Shin Bet are still not enough to prevent criminals from obtaining illegal firearms.
When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists.
It is an approach that the Americans should take to end the constant slaughter of innocents.
In reality, Israel's gun policy is living proof of the arguments the American gun lobby has been making for years.
Gun rights advocates contend that the way to stop mass shootings is by ensuring that there are always well-armed citizens present who can neutralize the shooter. As NRA chairman Wayne Lapierre always says, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". A bedrock of the NRA's philosophy is that criminals will always acquire guns illegally, and draconian gun laws only render law-abiding citizens defenseless.
When the knife intifada erupted in September 2015, the Israeli government's response was to ease the process for the civilian populace to obtain weapons.
Enter Israel: When the knife intifada erupted in September 2015, the Israeli government's response was to ease the process for the civilian populace to obtain weapons. After a particularly bloody Jerusalem shooting attack that killed four, then-Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan drastically changed the gun laws in order to significantly raise the number of armed civilians on the streets. Instantly, graduates of Special Forces units and IDF officers with the rank of Lieutenant and above were permitted to purchase guns at their will, security guards were allowed to bring their guns home after work, and the minimum age for a license was reduced from 21 to 18.
Erdan explained that "civilians well trained in the use of weapons provide reinforcement in the struggle against terrorism", while Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat called for every resident to carry a gun, and was even photographed traveling the city carrying a Glock 23.
In addition, the overwhelming majority of terror attacks in Israel are stopped by armed civilians, not law enforcement. For example, the terrorists in the 2016 Sarona market attack were stopped by armed passersby. A pistol-carrying tour guide put an end to the 2017 ramming attack in Arnona that left four soldiers dead.
In Israeli eyes, guns are a valuable deterrent against terrorism. In fact, terrorists have told the Shin Bet internal security service that they often target haredi Jews due to the high likelihood that they are unarmed.
Gun control supporters would answer that the mandatory military service that every Israeli undergoes justifies the trust Israel has of its citizens. However, this argument doesn't hold water. The vast majority of IDF soldiers aren't combat soldiers and are certified as 02 riflemen. To be 02 requires one to shoot between 40 and 70 bullets. The pistol course needed to obtain a license takes less than four hours. It is a far cry from the highly trained population that the Left imagines.
Gun control has been proven to be a dismal failure in Israel. The Israeli Arab communities are rife with illegal weapons, with some police estimates putting the number of unlicensed weapons in the Arab sector as high as 500,000. Think about that for a second: The most heavily guarded borders in the world and a highly professional Shin Bet are still not enough to prevent criminals from obtaining illegal firearms.
When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists.
It is an approach that the Americans should take to end the constant slaughter of innocents.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Arti ... aspx/21714
Yes because there are never any attacks in Israel
bootlegga @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:41 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Came across a fine argument for having armed guards at our schools:
$1:
Why do we protect money and banks better than we protect our children and our schools?
Parkland already had an armed officer on duty...and it didn't make one bit of difference:
http://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-n ... ed-shooter
raydan @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:26 am
Shooters, unless they have a personal reason for choosing their target, will do like the everyday stick-up artist and choose the easiest. Protect the easiest and they'll choose the next easiest.
They may be sick but they're not stupid, put an armed guard in a school and what will they do? Shoot the armed guard first. Or they'll do like the Vegas shooter and shoot from a distance. You cannot protect everywhere and everybody.
Saying that more guns are the solution to the gun problem is like saying that more drugs are the solution to the drug problem.
Tricks @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:39 am
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
Tricks Tricks:
Whoops.
That last tweet you posted is somewhat true but it certainly doesn't reflect the reality of its claim.
Even if Trump hadn't revoked the ban it would have made little difference in this or a myriad of other mass shooting cases for the simple reason that the shooters weren't on any list. Come to think about it the only recent shooting case that might have been prevented by this list was the Devon Patrick Kelley shooting in Texas and even that was a maybe because of the way the Military, Gov't and Police forces handled their information sharing.
If Snopes is to be believed the Obama rule would have only affected people receiving mental health benefits from the federal gov't a fact which meant that just 75 thousand people could have been prevented from "legally" acquiring firearms. Not alot of people in a country of 323 million and certainly not the shooter in this case.
$1:
CLAIM
President Trump signed a bill blocking Obama-era background checks on guns for people with mental illnesses.
RATING
MOSTLY TRUE
ORIGIN
In the wake of a horrific school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead in February 2018, media renewed focus on an Obama-era regulation repealed in the early months of the Trump administration. That rule would have given the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which is used for gun sales, access to Social Security Administration data including the names of individuals receiving certain federal mental health benefits.
As we explained in a 17 February 2017 post, this rule — which never went into effect before being rescinded — did not change any existing laws regulating who is allowed to purchase guns. It merely would have provided a new way to enforce existing restrictions on gun sales by allowing a transfer of information from one agency to another. There are now, and have been for some time, laws that seek to limit gun sales to anyone “who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution” per Title 18 section 922(g) of the United States Code. However, according to the Associated Press:
The Obama rule would have prevented an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from being able to purchase a firearm. It was crafted as part of Obama’s efforts to strengthen the federal background check system in the wake of the 2012 massacre of 20 young students and six staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.
The rule was rescinded using a legal procedure called the the Congressional Review Act, which, prior to the Trump Administration, was obscure and little-used. It allows regulations passed in the final days of one administration to be rescinded with a simple majority vote in both chambers of Congress during the first 60 days of a new administration. The Senate sent their repeal of the Obama-era measure for Trump’s signature on 15 February 2017 — a year and a day before the Parkland shooting — and Trump signed it into law the next week, on 28 February 2017.
While the law did not change who is required to be the subject of background checks, it is true that Trump signed into law the repeal of a measure that would have plausibly prevented certain classes of mentally ill people from purchasing firearms by allowing a new data source to be included the system that runs those background checks. As such we rank the claim mostly true.
President Trump signed a bill blocking Obama-era background checks on guns for people with mental illnesses.
RATING
MOSTLY TRUE
ORIGIN
In the wake of a horrific school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead in February 2018, media renewed focus on an Obama-era regulation repealed in the early months of the Trump administration. That rule would have given the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which is used for gun sales, access to Social Security Administration data including the names of individuals receiving certain federal mental health benefits.
As we explained in a 17 February 2017 post, this rule — which never went into effect before being rescinded — did not change any existing laws regulating who is allowed to purchase guns. It merely would have provided a new way to enforce existing restrictions on gun sales by allowing a transfer of information from one agency to another. There are now, and have been for some time, laws that seek to limit gun sales to anyone “who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution” per Title 18 section 922(g) of the United States Code. However, according to the Associated Press:
The Obama rule would have prevented an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from being able to purchase a firearm. It was crafted as part of Obama’s efforts to strengthen the federal background check system in the wake of the 2012 massacre of 20 young students and six staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.
The rule was rescinded using a legal procedure called the the Congressional Review Act, which, prior to the Trump Administration, was obscure and little-used. It allows regulations passed in the final days of one administration to be rescinded with a simple majority vote in both chambers of Congress during the first 60 days of a new administration. The Senate sent their repeal of the Obama-era measure for Trump’s signature on 15 February 2017 — a year and a day before the Parkland shooting — and Trump signed it into law the next week, on 28 February 2017.
While the law did not change who is required to be the subject of background checks, it is true that Trump signed into law the repeal of a measure that would have plausibly prevented certain classes of mentally ill people from purchasing firearms by allowing a new data source to be included the system that runs those background checks. As such we rank the claim mostly true.
https://www.snopes.com/trump-sign-bill- ... illnesses/
Besides never being put into effect the Obama rule would have been open to interpretation and abuse and likely wouldn't have prevented alot of shootings because these people don't show up on the gov'ts radar prior to acting.
So, there has to be a better way of figuring out who's going off the rails and how to stop them before they act because nobody and no laws are going to stop the possession and illegal use of the hundreds of millions of weapons, both registered and unregistered down there.
Doesn't matter if it would have stopped it. It was something. He also didn't replace with anything with more teeth. This guy was regularly dealing with the police, his name would have been in the system on a background check, and he was receiving mental health treatment. Why the fuck was he able to legally purchase a firearm? This is what people talk about when they say that the U.S. needs to institute proper background checks. Cause that's fucking bush league.
N_Fiddledog @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:09 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Yes because there are never any attacks in Israel
There are attacks in Israel. If you had read the article you would know that's the problem.
The similarities between Israel's problem with attacks and America's can be seen as similar only different.
The last attacks in Israel were mostly from knives, but there are illegal guns in Israel just as there are in America. The problem seems universal.
$1:
Gun control has been proven to be a dismal failure in Israel. The Israeli Arab communities are rife with illegal weapons, with some police estimates putting the number of unlicensed weapons in the Arab sector as high as 500,000. Think about that for a second: The most heavily guarded borders in the world and a highly professional Shin Bet are still not enough to prevent criminals from obtaining illegal firearms.
There is the ideological push towards attacks in both places. In America, the media tells fanatics they can be famous by attacking others. In Israel, Islamic leaders tell fanatics they can be martyrs.
BRAH @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:11 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Came across a fine argument for having armed guards at our schools:
$1:
Why do we protect money and banks better than we protect our children and our schools?
Parkland already had an armed officer on duty...and it didn't make one bit of difference:
http://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-n ... ed-shooter
High Schools in Canada have armed officers and it's hard to say if they could make a difference before innocent people are massacred.
raydan @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:19 am
Years ago, at least around here, a lot of banks had armed security, some didn't. They finally realized that it made no difference and those guys all lost their jobs.
BeaverFever @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:20 am
BRAH BRAH:
High Schools in Canada have armed officers
They do?
The only ones I’m aware of are only at the school occasionally and are just thery for outreach and to play officer friendly
ShepherdsDog @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:38 am
Some high schools have/had police liaison officers. BLM wanted them gone in Toronto because they were 'scaring' the gangbangers.
Shooters posts expressed a desire to commit violence against other races and religions. We have a member here who has often expressed a desire to kill men, women and children based solely on their religion and ethnicity. Would reporting his posts to the police prevent a possible future massacre if he takes his COD fantasies into the real world. Any long term member here knows this is true.
bootlegga @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:51 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
BRAH BRAH:
High Schools in Canada have armed officers
They do?
The only ones I’m aware of are only at the school occasionally and are just thery for outreach and to play officer friendly
We have police officers in high schools in Edmonton, but I don't know about other cities:
http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/CommunityP ... icers.aspx
I don't know about now, but when I was in high school, they wore their uniform, carried a pistol and nightstick. Thing was they were only in school for a couple hours every few days, not all school hours.
Jabberwalker @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:45 pm
BRAH BRAH:
bootlegga bootlegga:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Came across a fine argument for having armed guards at our schools:
Thanks
Parkland already had an armed officer on duty...and it didn't make one bit of difference:
http://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-n ... ed-shooter
Thanks
Parkland already had an armed officer on duty...and it didn't make one bit of difference:
http://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-n ... ed-shooter
High Schools in Canada have armed officers and it's hard to say if they could make a difference before innocent people are massacred.
There are no armed officers of any description in the high school that my son attends now nor in the different one that my daughter finished up in last year.
Perhaps, you are confusing this "Canada" place with some anal sphincter of a place like Smolensk.
herbie @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:54 pm
$1:
High Schools in Canada have armed officers
See that's what happens when you worship a lying sack of shit like Trump, you turn into one yourself.
Now all stand at attention, put your hand over your heart and tongue bath the flag to show your respect for all the school kids that have died to uphold your right to buy an assault weapon at WalMart.
BeaverFever @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:04 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Some high schools have/had police liaison officers. BLM wanted them gone in Toronto because they were 'scaring' the gangbangers.
Those are the part-time outreach cops I was talking about. They’re not no there to police the schools or defend it from attack They’re there for a short period one day week to build relationships.
Jabberwalker @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:00 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Some high schools have/had police liaison officers. BLM wanted them gone in Toronto because they were 'scaring' the gangbangers.
Those are the part-time outreach cops I was talking about. They’re not no there to police the schools or defend it from attack They’re there for a short period one day week to build relationships.
This is the crime-ridden place that I live in. (Population 194,000)
http://www.haltonpolice.ca/crimefiles/s ... ats_D2.pdf
Strutz @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:12 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Some high schools have/had police liaison officers. BLM wanted them gone in Toronto because they were 'scaring' the gangbangers.
Shooters posts expressed a desire to commit violence against other races and religions. We have a member here who has often expressed a desire to kill men, women and children based solely on their religion and ethnicity. Would reporting his posts to the police prevent a possible future massacre if he takes his COD fantasies into the real world. Any long term member here knows this is true.
Shooters posts expressed a desire to commit violence against other races and religions. We have a member here who has often expressed a desire to kill men, women and children based solely on their religion and ethnicity. Would reporting his posts to the police prevent a possible future massacre if he takes his COD fantasies into the real world. Any long term member here knows this is true.
An interesting article you linked. I think most people view the spouting off of comments as just "talk" and not take it seriously enough to foresee that that person may actually commit such a horrible and senseless act.
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