Fact check: Did a Liberal tax cut help reduce poverty rates'
Thanos @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:26 pm
Too bad you chose to sabotage an otherwise great post with your own politics. Like, do you forget on purpose that the most savage budget-cutting in Canadian history at the federal level was done by Chretien/Martin in order to get that status achievement as deficit/debt busters and budget-balancers? Blast Ralph Klein all you want and I'll join you, because what was done so recklessly in Alberta turned out to be one of the most harmful things done to this province. Just don't say it was just the "righties" responsible for it though when the cash flow that got cut off by the federal Liberals caused as much harm across the country, especially to health care and the military, as anything that happened at the provincial level. It was the trend of the moment in the 1990's to pursue those policies to their bitter end and the Liberals turned out to be just as good at it, regardless of the consequences, as any conservatives were.
BeaverFever @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:54 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
So in summary Trudeau DID lift 1 million Canadians out of poverty... by SPENDING
Once again proving liberal economics work and conservative economics fail.
Once again proving liberal economics work and conservative economics fail.
Go get a credit card and spend your way out of poverty and see how long that can last.
I know you intrinsically hate austerity spending but the fact remains that it's better to choose to spend less money and pay off your debts than to have no choice at all.
Government deficit spending is nothing like a person with credit card. Like literally not at all. Your analogy is a total fail.
BeaverFever @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 pm
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
Thanos Thanos:
I doubt that tax cuts reduce poverty.
Could I talk you into 'possible, mitigating factor'?
If not how are we explaining the fact that minorities experiencing trouble finding work set historical employment records after Trump's tax cuts? Also the use of food stamps or whatever that card they use down there is plummeted.
How are we explaining stuff like that? A leftover miracle from the Obama era? The natural, economic eb and flux of things that we don't have a name for, but for now let's just call it magic?
Deregulation and new hopeful outlook might also have something to do with it. That's all I can come up with.
Trump’s tax cuts didn’t do anything except make the rich richer. The US economy has been growing at the same rate for 11 years.
BeaverFever @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:11 pm
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
Well...
Here's some claims from 2019. Feel free to show me how Justin is doing against these:
https://www.newsmax.com/finance/georgem ... id/919096/
I'm assuming you won't like the source there, so try these:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... my-charts/
The one progressive's always want to jump on though is the problem with the debt. Trump needs to work on that. He's making promises for his next term but we shall see. You may be able to find Trump Trudeau equivalency in the dealings with that one.
Here's some claims from 2019. Feel free to show me how Justin is doing against these:
$1:
Employment: PBS News Hour confirmed that this is the best labor market since 1969 with low unemployment, more jobs and rising wages.
GDP: Trump is the first president to have GDP consistently higher than 3%, President Barack Obama was only the president to fail to achieve one year of 3% GDP growth.
Wages: The Washington Post even surrenders to the fact that Trump is the first president to improve wages in a generation where income is at an all-time high.
Stock Market: CNN says the stock market has roared more than 40% since Trump’s election.
Gas and Fuel Prices: Gas prices are low in most U.S. states that don't over-tax fuel with local and state taxes. Many states have $2.15 per gallon gasoline right now. Gas prices may fall this summer according to the latest news.
Ethnic Employment Success: The employment success for all ethnicities is at record high. Obama had difficulty creating jobs and many people gave up looking for work.
Manufacturing Jobs: Manufacturing jobs are back in the U.S. for the first time in a generation. Trump created 284,000 manufacturing jobs in 2018. Forbes implied that millions of manufacturing jobs were lost during Obama’s first 2 years in office. Some 1 in 6 were lost between January 2008 and March 2010 and Obama never got those jobs back.
Taxes and Regulatory: Corporate taxes were cut from 35% to 21%. America moved from worst tax system up to one of the most competitive in the world under Trump’s first 2 years in office. Lower tax rates allow U.S. companies to spend more money, buy more assets, pay more employee benefits, buy stock back to put money on Main Street and into state coffers, and even help pay better dividends to seniors who live paycheck to paycheck.
Nasdaq: The Nasdaq stock market value finally exceeded the 1999 prices under Trump. This implies that companies were stagnant for 18 years until Trump took office.
Level the Playing Field: With a mixed bag of tax-code improvements, removal of red tape, new trade agreements, and competitive tariffs, the U.S. economy is more insulated from failure. Even the Federal Reserve is willing to lower rates if other countries harm the U.S. trading environment.
GDP: Trump is the first president to have GDP consistently higher than 3%, President Barack Obama was only the president to fail to achieve one year of 3% GDP growth.
Wages: The Washington Post even surrenders to the fact that Trump is the first president to improve wages in a generation where income is at an all-time high.
Stock Market: CNN says the stock market has roared more than 40% since Trump’s election.
Gas and Fuel Prices: Gas prices are low in most U.S. states that don't over-tax fuel with local and state taxes. Many states have $2.15 per gallon gasoline right now. Gas prices may fall this summer according to the latest news.
Ethnic Employment Success: The employment success for all ethnicities is at record high. Obama had difficulty creating jobs and many people gave up looking for work.
Manufacturing Jobs: Manufacturing jobs are back in the U.S. for the first time in a generation. Trump created 284,000 manufacturing jobs in 2018. Forbes implied that millions of manufacturing jobs were lost during Obama’s first 2 years in office. Some 1 in 6 were lost between January 2008 and March 2010 and Obama never got those jobs back.
Taxes and Regulatory: Corporate taxes were cut from 35% to 21%. America moved from worst tax system up to one of the most competitive in the world under Trump’s first 2 years in office. Lower tax rates allow U.S. companies to spend more money, buy more assets, pay more employee benefits, buy stock back to put money on Main Street and into state coffers, and even help pay better dividends to seniors who live paycheck to paycheck.
Nasdaq: The Nasdaq stock market value finally exceeded the 1999 prices under Trump. This implies that companies were stagnant for 18 years until Trump took office.
Level the Playing Field: With a mixed bag of tax-code improvements, removal of red tape, new trade agreements, and competitive tariffs, the U.S. economy is more insulated from failure. Even the Federal Reserve is willing to lower rates if other countries harm the U.S. trading environment.
https://www.newsmax.com/finance/georgem ... id/919096/
I'm assuming you won't like the source there, so try these:
$1:
The typical American worker’s pay is finally growing more than 3 percent a year, a level not seen since before the Great Recession. Similarly, consumer and business confidence surged after Trump’s election and has remained high, and manufacturing output (and jobs) also saw a noticeable jump in 2018 after Trump’s tax cut, although manufacturing is now struggling. There’s also been a drop in the number of Americans on food stamps.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... my-charts/
The one progressive's always want to jump on though is the problem with the debt. Trump needs to work on that. He's making promises for his next term but we shall see. You may be able to find Trump Trudeau equivalency in the dealings with that one.
Lots of phoney claims here, for example GDP growth under trump is not 3% let alone “consistently” 3%. For 2019, the data shows an annual average growth of 2.3%, ending the year at 2.1% for the fourth quarter. This is significantly less than the 5.5% peak achieved in the second quarter of 2014 during the Obama presidency. A lot of other cherry-picked data or data that was only true for a brief uptick. As for wage growth, After inflation is taken into account, real wages increased by 0.6% in December 2019, and peaked at 1.9% Trump, lower than the real wage increases of more than 2% that Obama oversaw in 2015. And median household income was $63,179 in 2018 the most recent data year, which is not statistically different from the previous year but it is the first time since 2015 that it did not go up
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bbc.com ... d-45827430
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.forbes. ... bamas/amp/
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com ... index.html
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.usatoda ... 4659841002
BeaverFever @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:12 pm
Double
BeaverFever @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:12 pm
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
So in summary Trudeau DID lift 1 million Canadians out of poverty... by SPENDING
He sacrificed the future to get a cheap pop in the present. Such awesome *leadership*
[quote="BeaverFever"]Once again proving liberal economics
No we both passed. In university. Did you?
BeaverFever @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:18 pm
Thanos Thanos:
Too bad you chose to sabotage an otherwise great post with your own politics. Like, do you forget on purpose that the most savage budget-cutting in Canadian history at the federal level was done by Chretien/Martin in order to get that status achievement as deficit/debt busters and budget-balancers? Blast Ralph Klein all you want and I'll join you, because what was done so recklessly in Alberta turned out to be one of the most harmful things done to this province. Just don't say it was just the "righties" responsible for it though when the cash flow that got cut off by the federal Liberals caused as much harm across the country, especially to health care and the military, as anything that happened at the provincial level. It was the trend of the moment in the 1990's to pursue those policies to their bitter end and the Liberals turned out to be just as good at it, regardless of the consequences, as any conservatives were.
I thought I’ve made my contempt for Chretien-Martin and similar “centrists” pretty clear here over the years. As I’ve said repeatedly they are not on the left they are simply corporatist conservatives but without the right’s sexual hangups and desire to play morality police
herbie @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:32 pm
Grampa said it best:
Tory times is tough times. If ya dinno that ya dinno shit.
FieryVulpine @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:01 pm
Beave, Beave, Beave. You need to stop believing in these childish fairy tales where you believe that writing IOUs is a sustainable method of payment for your little pet projects. There will likely come a time when the government will pay more to service its debts than it does education, healthcare, and other programs because it prioritized instant gratification. Lefties always assume that the good times will last forever and never prepare for when the pendulum swings the other way. All markets operate on a boom and bust cycle that is not limited to commodities with bear markets being as sure as bull counterparts. The next recession is pretty much a certain outcome and it would not surprise if Canada's economy takes a huge hit when it comes and it will be amusing to see how impotent the Liberals become. 
N_Fiddledog @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:06 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
The US economy has been growing at the same rate for 11 years.
There was bit of an economic spurt in late 2014. Curiously enough right about the time Republicans took control of both the House and the Senate. Progressives are able to magic math off 2014-15 stats to make it look like a trend.
But records are records and the Trump economy has set em'. The only economic Record the Obama regime set was for length of recession without a recovery. And even there the best he could do was to come in second. An earlier Progressive President, FDR, is still the champ at that. Not really fair though. FDR had 4 terms to do it. After that America said 'that's enough of that crap' and set term limits on the presidency. Too bad. One more term and I bet Barrack could have had a record too.
N_Fiddledog @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:14 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Lots of phoney claims here, for example GDP growth under trump is not 3% let alone “consistently” 3%. For 2019, the data shows an annual average growth of 2.3%, ending the year at 2.1% for the fourth quarter.
I'm guessing you didn't notice the guy was writing in the summer of 2019. That's odd seeing as how I did mention it.
Really the guy is only talking about one year of Trump presidency at 3.1 - 2017 to 2018. You might have figured all that out if you'd clicked the link he gave you for his claim. Here I'll let you read it then. It's from a Whitehouse government briefing in February of 2019.
$1:
The Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) has announced that GDP grew by 3.1 percent from the fourth quarter of 2017 to the fourth quarter of 2018.
Bureau of Economic Analysis: “During 2018 (measured from the fourth quarter of 2017 to the fourth quarter of 2018), real GDP increased 3.1 percent.”
This marked the fastest fourth quarter to fourth quarter growth since 2005.
2018 was the second year in a row that the economy exceeded market expectations.
The impressive economic growth in 2018 was a strong improvement from the trend prior to when President Donald J. Trump took office.
Had the pre-2017 trend continued, growth would have been only 2 percent in 2017 and 2018. Economic output was also $280 billion larger than it would have been.
Growth matched the forecast of 3.1 percent predicted in the President’s 2018 Budget.
The fourth quarter GDP growth last year far exceeded market expectations.
Bureau of Economic Analysis: “During 2018 (measured from the fourth quarter of 2017 to the fourth quarter of 2018), real GDP increased 3.1 percent.”
This marked the fastest fourth quarter to fourth quarter growth since 2005.
2018 was the second year in a row that the economy exceeded market expectations.
The impressive economic growth in 2018 was a strong improvement from the trend prior to when President Donald J. Trump took office.
Had the pre-2017 trend continued, growth would have been only 2 percent in 2017 and 2018. Economic output was also $280 billion larger than it would have been.
Growth matched the forecast of 3.1 percent predicted in the President’s 2018 Budget.
The fourth quarter GDP growth last year far exceeded market expectations.
Martin15 @ Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:21 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
No we both passed. In university. Did you?
For someone who spent years wailing about Harper and his 'university economics'......
You claiming it now is just...
BeaverFever @ Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:38 am
Martin15 Martin15:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
No we both passed. In university. Did you?
For someone who spent years wailing about Harper and his 'university economics'......
You claiming it now is just...
Oh I did? You better dig up those posts cuz you’re full of.....:lol
BeaverFever @ Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:45 am
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Beave, Beave, Beave. You need to stop believing in these childish fairy tales where you believe that writing IOUs is a sustainable method of payment for your little pet projects. There will likely come a time when the government will pay more to service its debts than it does education, healthcare, and other programs because it prioritized instant gratification. Lefties always assume that the good times will last forever and never prepare for when the pendulum swings the other way. All markets operate on a boom and bust cycle that is not limited to commodities with bear markets being as sure as bull counterparts. The next recession is pretty much a certain outcome and it would not surprise if Canada's economy takes a huge hit when it comes and it will be amusing to see how impotent the Liberals become.
History haa already proven me right. Recession s happen all the time but economies and therefore the tax base and tax revenue aleays grows ovee the long term. Remember these “IOUS” that we’re talking about are binds that arw sold to investors and they mature and get paid off all the time, not simply unpaid IOUs. If tou have a pension plan or an RRSP or do any type of investing you are directly or indirectly someone who has purchased this debt
BeaverFever @ Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:47 am
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
The US economy has been growing at the same rate for 11 years.
There was bit of an economic spurt in late 2014. Curiously enough right about the time Republicans took control of both the House and the Senate. Progressives are able to magic math off 2014-15 stats to make it look like a trend.
But records are records and the Trump economy has set em'. The only economic Record the Obama regime set was for length of recession without a recovery. And even there the best he could do was to come in second. An earlier Progressive President, FDR, is still the champ at that. Not really fair though. FDR had 4 terms to do it. After that America said 'that's enough of that crap' and set term limits on the presidency. Too bad. One more term and I bet Barrack could have had a record too.
^ everything in your post above is a complete gaslighting lie. Total fabrication. Psr for the course