Fidel Castro has died.
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shockedcanadian @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:35 pm
Thanos Thanos:
No, if it's that hated by the common folks they'll knock it down as quickly as the East Germans did when they got the opportunity.
East Germany didn't fall because the people overthrew it, the Russians could no longer sustain the satellites and the will of the people.
Russia itself was responsible for crushing uprisings in East Germany in the 50's, Hungary and the well known Czechoslovakian massacres. Not to mention Poland many years later. The desire for citizens to overcome these systems was strong but futile. This as an aside to well developed government systems of control, such as the aforementioned East Germany where the Stasi had massive amounts of information on it's society.
Even until the very end Honecker believed the Russians would crush the East Germans, until he realized that no assistance was forthcoming. Eastern Bloc countries referred to Russia as "Big Brother" and their own nations intelligence and government required approval for many activities, East Germany was no different. Once Russia was losing it's grip, they would all fall one by one, and thankfully they did.
If any advancement in freedom and democracy in these societies occurred it was because the financial ability to fight the people and suppress them had been weakened. In reality, the system itself didn't provide the market incentives and freedoms to continue to wield the iron fist. An ironic and fitting fate for a system that is as diabolical as it is unnatural and unsustainable.
BRAH @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:40 pm
andyt andyt:
BRAH BRAH:
andyt andyt:
Just go to Breitbart or Facebook. I'm sure you can get "the truth" there.
There's more truthiness on there than on the MSM.
FTFY. Funny how that term hasn't come up yet - seems to fit the times perfectly.
Funny how you don't understand the power of Social Media and how it's made the MSM irrelevant.
Public_Domain @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:46 pm
BeaverFever @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:53 pm
Delwin Delwin:
It's pretty hypocritical to criticize Castro while still doing business with China. A whole lot of self righteous b.s. Out of the usual camps.
As was mentioned, Battista was a butcher who killed thousands, Castro himself killed thousands during the revolution and during his reign which in my view was the only way he was going to hold on to his power.
It is convenient to believe that after overthrowing Battista he could have settled everyone down and held fair elections so everyone could live happily ever after but that is fantasy.
He was on the CIA hitlist and there is very little chance, even if the majority wanted him in power, he would have been able to do it fairly.
Let's face it, the US was not going to accept an election result they didn't like.
He held onto power the only way he could, with an iron fist. I don't think this means he loved his country any less. On the contrary, I think he believed that if he relinquished power, things would have went back to being run by foreign interests, and for the most part I think he was right, even to this day.
The fact that he wasn't elected really doesn't affect my opinion of him, it's no different than China or any of the "kingdoms" we do business with.
We still honour the Queen as an unelected head of state who's family had ruled for a long time before elections.
I view Castro as a tyrant, but a tyrant of circumstance. I see him as something of a tragic figure who played his hand the best way he could.
R.I.P.
As was mentioned, Battista was a butcher who killed thousands, Castro himself killed thousands during the revolution and during his reign which in my view was the only way he was going to hold on to his power.
It is convenient to believe that after overthrowing Battista he could have settled everyone down and held fair elections so everyone could live happily ever after but that is fantasy.
He was on the CIA hitlist and there is very little chance, even if the majority wanted him in power, he would have been able to do it fairly.
Let's face it, the US was not going to accept an election result they didn't like.
He held onto power the only way he could, with an iron fist. I don't think this means he loved his country any less. On the contrary, I think he believed that if he relinquished power, things would have went back to being run by foreign interests, and for the most part I think he was right, even to this day.
The fact that he wasn't elected really doesn't affect my opinion of him, it's no different than China or any of the "kingdoms" we do business with.
We still honour the Queen as an unelected head of state who's family had ruled for a long time before elections.
I view Castro as a tyrant, but a tyrant of circumstance. I see him as something of a tragic figure who played his hand the best way he could.
R.I.P.
Also just to point out: the rhetoric about the mass executions by firing squad, while inexcusable, happened in the immediate aftermath of the revolution over 50 years ago and most of Cubas executions for any reason (political or criminal) were in the 60s and 70s.
In fact, Cuba hasn't even executed a criminal since 2003 (armed hijackers) and in 2008 Raul Castro commuted the sentences of all remaining death row inmates to 30 year sentences,except for 3 men whose cases were still before the courts on appeal. These were 2 Salvadorian men who had bombed several Havana hotels as part of an anti-Castro terrorist group organized by a former CIA asset now listed as a terrorist by the FBI. The third was another anti-Castro activist. All 3 were arrested in the 90s and originally sentenced to execution but had successfully appealed their convictions multiple times and were finally commuted in 2010. Despite still having the death penalty on the books, Cuba is now considered by anti-death penalty groups to be an abolitionist state. Not quite the the tyranny some would have you imagine.
http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.ca/201 ... p.html?m=1
N_Fiddledog @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:39 pm
This one's from 2005:
$1:
Waiting for Fidel to die has become a way of life in Cuba in the past decade. Conventional wisdom holds that the totalitarian regime will hang on even after the old man kicks the bucket. But that hasn't stopped millions from dreaming big about life in a Fidel-free Cuba.
Cuban reconciliation won't come easy, even if Fidel's ruthless, money-grubbing little brother Raul is somehow pushed aside. One painful step in the process will require facing the truth of all that has gone on in the name of social justice. As the report cited above shows, it is bound to be a gruesome tale.
The Cuba Archive project (http://www.cubaarchive.org) has already begun the heavy lifting by attempting to document the loss of life attributable to revolutionary zealotry. The project, based in Chatham, N.J., covers the period from May 1952 -- when the constitutional government fell to Gen. Fulgencio Batista -- to the present. It has so far verified the names of 9,240 victims of the Castro regime and the circumstances of their deaths. Archive researchers meticulously insist on confirming stories of official murder from two independent sources.
Cuba Archive President Maria Werlau says the total number of victims could be higher by a factor of 10. Project Vice President Armando Lago, a Harvard-trained economist, has spent years studying the cost of the revolution and he estimates that almost 78,000 innocents may have died trying to flee the dictatorship. Another 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. An estimated 14,000 Cubans were killed in Fidel's revolutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency.
[snip]
In the earliest days of the revolution, summary executions established a culture of fear that quickly eliminated most resistance. In the decades that followed, inhumane prison conditions often leading to death, unspeakable torture and privation were enough to keep Cubans cowed.
Cuba Archive finds that some 5,600 Cubans have died in front of firing squads and another 1,200 in "extrajudicial assassinations." Che Guevara was a gleeful executioner at the infamous La Cabaña Fortress in 1959 where, under his orders, at least 151 Cubans were lined up and shot. Children have not been spared. Of the 94 minors whose deaths have been documented by Cuba Archive, 22 died by firing squad and 32 in extrajudicial assassinations.
Fifteen-year-old Owen Delgado Temprana was beaten to death in 1981 when security agents stormed the embassy of Ecuador where his family had taken refuge. In 1995, 17-year-old Junior Flores Díaz died after being locked in a punishment cell in a Havana province prison and denied medical attention. He was found in a pool of vomit and blood. Many prison deaths are officially marked as "heart attacks," but witnesses tell another story. The project has documented 2,199 prison deaths, mostly political prisoners.
The revolution boasts of its gender equality, and that's certainly true for its victims. Women have not fared much better than men. In 1961, 25-year-old Lydia Perez Lopez was eight months pregnant when a prison guard kicked her in the stomach. She lost her baby and, without medical attention, bled to death. A 70-year-old woman named Edmunda Serrat Barrios was beaten to death in 1981 in a Cuban jail. Cuba Archive has documented 219 female deaths including 11 firing squad executions and 20 extrajudicial assassinations.
The heftiest death toll is among those trying to flee. Many have been killed by state security. Three Lazo children drowned in 1971 when a Cuban navy vessel rammed their boat; their mother, Mrs. Alberto Lazo Pastrana, was eaten by sharks. Twelve children -- ages six months to 11 years -- drowned along with 33 others when the Cuban coast guard sank their boat in 1994. Four children -- ages three to 17 -- drowned in the famous Canimar River massacre along with 52 others when the Cuban navy and a Cuban air force plane attacked a hijacked excursion boat headed for Florida in 1980.
The horror of that event cost one more life: After visiting survivors in the Matanzas hospitals, the famous revolutionary guerrilla Haydee Santamaria, already in despair over the massive, inhumane boat exodus from the Port of Mariel, killed herself.
That was a tragic admission of both the cost and failure of the revolution. The only riddle left is how, 2536 years later, so-called "human rights" advocates like Argentine President Nestor Kirchner ["social justice champions" like Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau] still embrace the Castro regime.
Cuban reconciliation won't come easy, even if Fidel's ruthless, money-grubbing little brother Raul is somehow pushed aside. One painful step in the process will require facing the truth of all that has gone on in the name of social justice. As the report cited above shows, it is bound to be a gruesome tale.
The Cuba Archive project (http://www.cubaarchive.org) has already begun the heavy lifting by attempting to document the loss of life attributable to revolutionary zealotry. The project, based in Chatham, N.J., covers the period from May 1952 -- when the constitutional government fell to Gen. Fulgencio Batista -- to the present. It has so far verified the names of 9,240 victims of the Castro regime and the circumstances of their deaths. Archive researchers meticulously insist on confirming stories of official murder from two independent sources.
Cuba Archive President Maria Werlau says the total number of victims could be higher by a factor of 10. Project Vice President Armando Lago, a Harvard-trained economist, has spent years studying the cost of the revolution and he estimates that almost 78,000 innocents may have died trying to flee the dictatorship. Another 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. An estimated 14,000 Cubans were killed in Fidel's revolutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency.
[snip]
In the earliest days of the revolution, summary executions established a culture of fear that quickly eliminated most resistance. In the decades that followed, inhumane prison conditions often leading to death, unspeakable torture and privation were enough to keep Cubans cowed.
Cuba Archive finds that some 5,600 Cubans have died in front of firing squads and another 1,200 in "extrajudicial assassinations." Che Guevara was a gleeful executioner at the infamous La Cabaña Fortress in 1959 where, under his orders, at least 151 Cubans were lined up and shot. Children have not been spared. Of the 94 minors whose deaths have been documented by Cuba Archive, 22 died by firing squad and 32 in extrajudicial assassinations.
Fifteen-year-old Owen Delgado Temprana was beaten to death in 1981 when security agents stormed the embassy of Ecuador where his family had taken refuge. In 1995, 17-year-old Junior Flores Díaz died after being locked in a punishment cell in a Havana province prison and denied medical attention. He was found in a pool of vomit and blood. Many prison deaths are officially marked as "heart attacks," but witnesses tell another story. The project has documented 2,199 prison deaths, mostly political prisoners.
The revolution boasts of its gender equality, and that's certainly true for its victims. Women have not fared much better than men. In 1961, 25-year-old Lydia Perez Lopez was eight months pregnant when a prison guard kicked her in the stomach. She lost her baby and, without medical attention, bled to death. A 70-year-old woman named Edmunda Serrat Barrios was beaten to death in 1981 in a Cuban jail. Cuba Archive has documented 219 female deaths including 11 firing squad executions and 20 extrajudicial assassinations.
The heftiest death toll is among those trying to flee. Many have been killed by state security. Three Lazo children drowned in 1971 when a Cuban navy vessel rammed their boat; their mother, Mrs. Alberto Lazo Pastrana, was eaten by sharks. Twelve children -- ages six months to 11 years -- drowned along with 33 others when the Cuban coast guard sank their boat in 1994. Four children -- ages three to 17 -- drowned in the famous Canimar River massacre along with 52 others when the Cuban navy and a Cuban air force plane attacked a hijacked excursion boat headed for Florida in 1980.
The horror of that event cost one more life: After visiting survivors in the Matanzas hospitals, the famous revolutionary guerrilla Haydee Santamaria, already in despair over the massive, inhumane boat exodus from the Port of Mariel, killed herself.
That was a tragic admission of both the cost and failure of the revolution. The only riddle left is how, 2536 years later, so-called "human rights" advocates like Argentine President Nestor Kirchner ["social justice champions" like Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau] still embrace the Castro regime.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB113590852154334404
Italics addition mine.
BeaverFever @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:41 pm
Reading the official statements from countries around the world, they're all similar to Trudeau's. Apparently there's this thing called "diplomacy" where you don't spit on the grave of a country's leader when they die. Must be another liberal gimmick, like "facts" and "truth" and "decency".
rickc @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:43 pm
Public_Domain Public_Domain:
Replacing it with American-approved leadership.
Never goes well for the people. But hey, cheap cigars I guess for the yankees.
Never goes well for the people. But hey, cheap cigars I guess for the yankees.
Why don't you try telling that to the citizens of Germany, Japan, and South Korea? They have some of the highest living standards on the planet, all courtesy of that American-approved leadership that you speak of.
Public_Domain @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:46 pm
N_Fiddledog @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:47 pm
$1:
After the death Friday of communist Cuban leader Fidel Castro, several politicians in the United States reacted to the news, including President Obama, who offered condolences to the Castro family and extended “a hand of friendship” to the Cuban people.
Acknowledging that Castro’s death would be greeted by “powerful emotions” by Cubans in the country and in the U.S., the president left it to history to “record and judge the enormous impact of this singular figure on the people and world around him.”
[snip]
President-elect Trump, who is spending the holiday weekend in Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach, Florida, resort, issued his own succinct statement on Castro’s death, delivering it on his favorite social media platform.
Fidel Castro is dead!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 26, 2016
His presidential transition team issued a longer statement two hours later, marking “the passing of a brutal dictator who oppressed his own people for nearly six decades.”
“Fidel Castro’s legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights,” Mr. Trump said in the statement. “While Cuba remains a totalitarian island, it is my hope that today marks a move away from the horrors endured for too long, and toward a future in which the wonderful Cuban people finally live in the freedom they so richly deserve.”
He promised that his administration “will do all it can to ensure the Cuban people can finally begin their journey toward prosperity and liberty.”
The president-elect, via Twitter, has also weighed in on U.S. policies regarding Cuba in the past, pledging to “reverse” the Obama-led efforts to normalize relations between the two countries.
The people of Cuba have struggled too long. Will reverse Obama's Executive Orders and concessions towards Cuba until freedoms are restored.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 12, 2016
Vice president-elect Mike Pence also commented on Twitter, claiming that “[n]ew hope dawns” after Castro’s death.
The tyrant #Castro is dead. New hope dawns. We will stand with the oppressed Cuban people for a free and democratic Cuba. Viva Cuba Libre!
— Mike Pence (@mike_pence) November 26, 2016
Other politicians had harsher reactions to Castro’s death, like Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, who is Cuban-American.
The Republican blasted Castro’s legacy as one of an “evil murderous dictator” who turned Cuba into “an impoverished island prison.”
He tweeted his full statement here:
History will remember Fidel Castro as an evil, murderous dictator who inflicted misery & suffering on his own people https://t.co/dXZshjRzu3 pic.twitter.com/AJ9c1MV2gu
— Senator Rubio Press (@SenRubioPress) November 26, 2016
In another post to Twitter, Rubio further criticized Mr. Obama for his “pathetic” statement, slamming the president for neglecting to mention the “thousands [Castro] killed & imprisoned.”
California Rep. Ed Royce, the Republican chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, had his own skewering statement on the dictator, saying that “no one should rule anywhere near as long as Fidel Castro did.”
“His legacy is one of repression at home and support for terrorism abroad. Sadly, Raul Castro is no better for Cubans who yearn for freedom,” Royce said.
The communist dictator, however, was “fondly” remembered by former President Jimmy Carter, who took several steps to normalize relations between the U.S. and the island nation during his time in office, including the establishment of “interest sections” -- now embassies -- in Havana and Washington...
Acknowledging that Castro’s death would be greeted by “powerful emotions” by Cubans in the country and in the U.S., the president left it to history to “record and judge the enormous impact of this singular figure on the people and world around him.”
[snip]
President-elect Trump, who is spending the holiday weekend in Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach, Florida, resort, issued his own succinct statement on Castro’s death, delivering it on his favorite social media platform.
Fidel Castro is dead!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 26, 2016
His presidential transition team issued a longer statement two hours later, marking “the passing of a brutal dictator who oppressed his own people for nearly six decades.”
“Fidel Castro’s legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights,” Mr. Trump said in the statement. “While Cuba remains a totalitarian island, it is my hope that today marks a move away from the horrors endured for too long, and toward a future in which the wonderful Cuban people finally live in the freedom they so richly deserve.”
He promised that his administration “will do all it can to ensure the Cuban people can finally begin their journey toward prosperity and liberty.”
The president-elect, via Twitter, has also weighed in on U.S. policies regarding Cuba in the past, pledging to “reverse” the Obama-led efforts to normalize relations between the two countries.
The people of Cuba have struggled too long. Will reverse Obama's Executive Orders and concessions towards Cuba until freedoms are restored.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 12, 2016
Vice president-elect Mike Pence also commented on Twitter, claiming that “[n]ew hope dawns” after Castro’s death.
The tyrant #Castro is dead. New hope dawns. We will stand with the oppressed Cuban people for a free and democratic Cuba. Viva Cuba Libre!
— Mike Pence (@mike_pence) November 26, 2016
Other politicians had harsher reactions to Castro’s death, like Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, who is Cuban-American.
The Republican blasted Castro’s legacy as one of an “evil murderous dictator” who turned Cuba into “an impoverished island prison.”
He tweeted his full statement here:
History will remember Fidel Castro as an evil, murderous dictator who inflicted misery & suffering on his own people https://t.co/dXZshjRzu3 pic.twitter.com/AJ9c1MV2gu
— Senator Rubio Press (@SenRubioPress) November 26, 2016
In another post to Twitter, Rubio further criticized Mr. Obama for his “pathetic” statement, slamming the president for neglecting to mention the “thousands [Castro] killed & imprisoned.”
California Rep. Ed Royce, the Republican chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, had his own skewering statement on the dictator, saying that “no one should rule anywhere near as long as Fidel Castro did.”
“His legacy is one of repression at home and support for terrorism abroad. Sadly, Raul Castro is no better for Cubans who yearn for freedom,” Royce said.
The communist dictator, however, was “fondly” remembered by former President Jimmy Carter, who took several steps to normalize relations between the U.S. and the island nation during his time in office, including the establishment of “interest sections” -- now embassies -- in Havana and Washington...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fidel-castr ... r-passing/
BeaverFever @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:52 pm
rickc rickc:
Public_Domain Public_Domain:
Replacing it with American-approved leadership.
Never goes well for the people. But hey, cheap cigars I guess for the yankees.
Never goes well for the people. But hey, cheap cigars I guess for the yankees.
Why don't you try telling that to the citizens of Germany, Japan, and South Korea? They have some of the highest living standards on the planet, all courtesy of that American-approved leadership that you speak of.
They did it right those first three times, over 60 years ago. But note those were all cases where there was actual US military occupation. Been doing it wrong dozens of times ever since.
N_Fiddledog @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:53 pm
$1:
DONALD TRUMP RELEASES STATEMENT AFTER FIDEL CASTRO'S DEATH
Today, the world marks the passing of a brutal dictator who oppressed his own people for nearly six decades.
Fidel Castro's legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights.
While Cuba remains a totalitarian island, it is my hope that today marks a move away from the horrors endured for too long, and toward a future in which the wonderful Cuban people finally live in the freedom they so richly deserve.
Though the tragedies, deaths and pain caused by Fidel Castro cannot be erased, our administration will do all it can to ensure the Cuban people can finally begin their journey toward prosperity and liberty.
I join the many Cuban Americans who supported me so greatly in the presidential campaign, including the Brigade 2506 Veterans Association that endorsed me, with the hope of one day soon seeing a free Cuba.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4RGRZY3R3
Today, the world marks the passing of a brutal dictator who oppressed his own people for nearly six decades.
Fidel Castro's legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights.
While Cuba remains a totalitarian island, it is my hope that today marks a move away from the horrors endured for too long, and toward a future in which the wonderful Cuban people finally live in the freedom they so richly deserve.
Though the tragedies, deaths and pain caused by Fidel Castro cannot be erased, our administration will do all it can to ensure the Cuban people can finally begin their journey toward prosperity and liberty.
I join the many Cuban Americans who supported me so greatly in the presidential campaign, including the Brigade 2506 Veterans Association that endorsed me, with the hope of one day soon seeing a free Cuba.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4RGRZY3R3
BRAH @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:59 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
rickc rickc:
Public_Domain Public_Domain:
Replacing it with American-approved leadership.
Never goes well for the people. But hey, cheap cigars I guess for the yankees.
Never goes well for the people. But hey, cheap cigars I guess for the yankees.
Why don't you try telling that to the citizens of Germany, Japan, and South Korea? They have some of the highest living standards on the planet, all courtesy of that American-approved leadership that you speak of.
They did it right those first three times, over 60 years ago. But note those were all cases where there was actual US military occupation. Been doing it wrong dozens of times ever since.
It probably would have worked in Iraq if they didn't disband the Iraqi Army which fed the insurgency.
andyt @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:59 pm
BRAH BRAH:
Funny how you don't understand the power of Social Media and how it's made the MSM irrelevant.
To the Kool Ade drinkers, sure.
rickc @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:00 pm
Public_Domain Public_Domain:
The leader of South Korea is facing a fifth week of protests because she consults a fucking shamen. 4% approval rating.
And she still commands a hell of a lot more respect around the world than your selfie taking, trust fund living, daddies boy, dipshit in charge that you have running the show. She actually gets to sit at the adult table during G20 meetings. Your guy is sent out to collect the doughnuts and coffee.
Public_Domain @ Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:13 pm
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