Ignatieff pushing risky EI reforms: economists
Lemmy Lemmy:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Politics, as I'm sure you know, has a lot to do with image. For the last decade, we have Martin and Chretien bashing away at the Americans, Sheila Copps stomping on a Bush doll, etc.....and now we have a man, who's spent the vast majority of his life with our neighbour and who's referred to himself over and over again as an "American" sits sideways with Canadians.
The more Canadians get to know Iggy, the more they'll realize he's nothing like them nor does he understand ANYTHING what it means to be Canadian.
If that's the case, then they should be bashing him about not understanding what it means to be a Canadian. Where one's work takes them has nothing to do with that. If you're the best baseball player in Canada you go to the US to work. If you're the best Egyptologist, you go to Egypt, if you're the best chef, you go to Paris. If you're an academic and you get offered an appointment to Harvard, that's not a negative thing.
If he's an egg-head elitist sabre-rattler then bash him for that. Leave the "just visiting" bullshit for the mouth-breathers.
But when they all come back to run for office in Canada, it's a problem!
It's especially a problem if this person referred to themselves as an American or Egyptian, etc.
Curtman Curtman:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
No, he's spent the entire summer overseas, delivering a lecture in London, England and spending the rest of his time in Provence, France with his family.
$1:
M_Ignatieff: In the "birthplace of our nation": it was in Gaspe that we first became Canadian #lpc
yesterday
Which sea is Quebec over?
I'm not sure what's more pathetic....the fact that you're on Twitter or that you follow Michael Ignateiff on Twitter.....
Lemmy @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:17 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
But when they all come back to run for office in Canada, it's a problem!
Not when it's working at Harvard it isn't.
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
It's especially a problem if this person referred to themselves as an American or Egyptian, etc.
Now THAT'S something to bash him about. If he's got so little pride in being a Canadian that he referred to himself as an American, POUND AWAY at him for THAT! That's got substance and speaks to his character.
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I'm not sure what's more pathetic, that you assume I'm on twitter, or that you never thought I might have gone to the Liberal party website and clicked on the big "twitter" button to see what he was up to. Same as I did with the Conservative party to check in on Steve.
See Lemmy, on politics I think we are closer than you realised. I don't think Harper is an idiot though. I think he has made some bad moves politically but he's no idiot.
Really, both Iggy and Harper are close politically too.
I expected more out of Iggy than he's delivered and I expected better out of Harper after the last election and he's failed to deliver too. But where are the alternatives?
What we have now is a informal 'coalition' in all but name.
The Dion-Layton-Duceppe joke has been replaced with an Iggy-Harper hybrid which decided on no-confidence fodder such as the 'stimulus' and 'EI reform'.
The next election will be interesting as the right-wing of the Liberals looks very much like the pink-Tories of the CPC.
But the problem during recession is alot of people are 'forced' into temporary jobs that are here today and gone tomorrow and now they don't qualify for EI because they didn't work long enough. In the last recession, over 80% of the unemployed population qualified for EI, now its only in the 40% range. On top of that, you have workers who took parental leave withing the last year before unexpectedly losing their job and are told they don't qualify because they haven't accrued enough time back at work. What are those excluded people supposed to do, not feed their kids until the economy turns around?
Second, EI only pays a max of 55% or $474 dollars a week - whichever is higher and with tax deducted from every cheque. Nobody is "lounging" or "enjoying the summer off" on that kind of money, they are cashing in their retirement funds at massive loss, moving in with their elderly parents and dodging bill collectors and doing whatever they can to keep their heads above water as their credit rating and everything they've worked hard to build up for themselves is destroyed for years to come.
When the economy is shedding jobs, its obvious that the unemployed are not just a bunch of people who suddenly became lazy. I say lower the waiting period, increase the benefits to 75% of insurable income or $600 a week for a single peroson in Toronto and tie the duration to local job market conditions so that when there are jobs equal to that benefit amount in a certain supply, the recipient must take one. That person still loses because they're back at 75% pay but the hope is that as the economy strengthens they will work their way back to their former role in short order.
The economic conditions of 1970's were as much to blame for what happened than anything going on at the policy level. We had the onset of stagflation, the birth of the financier-owned economy where banks, private investors and pension plans took over productive companies and demanded constant high rates of return for themselves right off the top regardless of business conditions, we had oil prices through the roof and the end of the Gold Standard of exchange.
Complaining that people were abusing the system in the 70's and ignoring the melting economy of the day is like complaining that the neighbours are in your swimming pool and ignoring that they jumped into it off the roof of a buring house.
Don't let Iggy fool you, he's not a populist reformer, he's from the "status-quo" establishment wing of Liberal party that consorts old money and big business. He's just going to tinker with some benefits to try and capture the left-of-centre vote, but he wont change much.
Lemmy Lemmy:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
But when they all come back to run for office in Canada, it's a problem!
Not when it's working at Harvard it isn't.
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
It's especially a problem if this person referred to themselves as an American or Egyptian, etc.
Now THAT'S something to bash him about. If he's got so little pride in being a Canadian that he referred to himself as an American, POUND AWAY at him for THAT! That's got substance and speaks to his character.
You've seen the video of him referring to himself as an "American" lemmy haven't you?
That will be for sure in the election attack ads. I agree with you though, but taking a more thoughtful road on this is unlikely. The politicians want to appeal to the 'great unwashed', not the thinkers.
Curtman Curtman:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I'm not sure what's more pathetic, that you assume I'm on twitter, or that you never thought I might have gone to the Liberal party website and clicked on the big "twitter" button to see what he was up to. Same as I did with the Conservative party to check in on Steve.
Well, you had to have been on Twitter to get that quote you posted, so denying that you were on Twitter, while admitting it all within the same post is amusing to say the least
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Well, you had to have been on Twitter to get that quote you posted, so denying that you were on Twitter, while admitting it all within the same post is amusing to say the least

I just told you I went to
Liberal.ca and clicked the
twitter button. I'm sure even you could handle that. You can do the same for
SteveWhat an age we live in.
Oh my god.. Jack Layton is doing it too. There's a conspiracy here somewhere.
This is getting rediculous.
Curtman Curtman:
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
So then why do you believe we need to lower the required hours to 360?
As a temporary measure, I would much rather support a family with EI than with Visa/Mastercard.
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
Ya, and that very system has a finite budget with which to operate. If you lower the requirements where do you think the money is going to come from to cover the additional people who are eligible after working only 9 weeks? More people on EI means less money per, very simple stuff.
I would like to know where they thought the money would go when they cut the GST as the U.S. economy collapsed and Steve was promising he would prevent a recession if he got elected.
So once again, no real idea of why you support what Iggy is proposing. You want to support people, great idea, what people. If someone worked even as a part time employee they should have no problem qualifying under the existing requirements. Why would it help to lower the requirements? Who are these changes going to help the most? What's the price tag on these changes and what can we expect as a result? Sorry for asking your buddy Iggy some basic questions on his proposal but I prefer to know what the hell I'm talking about before supporting something and that is something that seems foreign to you as is evident by the fact you can't put one single argument together as to why this is a good thing.
As for the GST cut, well sorry their big guy but had it gone the other way in the last election we'd be paying a carbon tax and 7% gst, how would that have helped the economy?
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
So once again, no real idea of why you support what Iggy is proposing.
I thought I was very clear about thaty, as others have been. It's the most effective form of stimulus.
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
As for the GST cut, well sorry their big guy but had it gone the other way in the last election we'd be paying a carbon tax and 7% gst, how would that have helped the economy?
No, you would be getting a carbon rebate on your income tax.
Why pay a tax and then get a rebate? Why not just not have the tax?
Lemmy @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:43 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Why pay a tax and then get a rebate? Why not just not have the tax?
Because when you have a rebate, you encourage people to be cleaner. Businesses will invest in cleaner technologies when the incentives are positive.