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Bantustans. What South Africa did to black people.

What the courts are doing is not creating Bantustans, since essentially they've given all of BC to natives, at least to some degree. It's us that would be living in the Bantustans.

What sort of law about culture? That's more slippery to define than even race. What would this law say, exactly? I've never heard FN's say it's about anything but race - ie who's indian and who's not. The culture arises out of that race. What it is about are two groups of people wanting control of the same land. No different than what the Israelis and Palestinians want. You can say it's about culture or relgion or what have you, but it's all the same deal.

WE did push the natives off their land. We do owe them something. OTOH, there's 30 times more of us than them, and counting, we're the ones who built up this country to be worth something. So how much do we owe them, what's a deal that both sides can live with, and once the deal is struck, can that finally be the end of it, ie extinguishment of claims, something the FN's have so far resisted.

   

Thanks for the the Batustans explanation.

I don't think culture arises necessarily out of race. I think that a lot of non-Indians relate to First Nations spirituality and culture. They should be allowed to be citizens of, say, the Tahltan or the Mohawks, in the same way a Brit or a Somali can immigrate to Canada.

Yes Britain and France did take the land here, and Canada, when it came along, continued to do so. To date Canada and the First Nations have been remarkably successful with their relationship though it has ofetn been tense and even occassionally deadly. As you siad, if you want to look at a completely dysfunctional relationship, just look at Palestine and israel.

I don't want to shaft the First Nations, orcover up the past. I want to reach an agreement with them that says racism is bad, and accruing rights based on genetic disposition is racism. It is their culture they want to maintain, not their race. Let's work on that.

   

Their "culture" is hunter gatherer. What they want to maintain are vast tracts of land that can support a hunter gatherer lifestyle. At the same time, they want all the mod cons that we have. You'll never resolve or satisfy that conflict.

At base it's about land. Whether control of that land is based on culture or race (it's race) their culture wants control of it and the benefits that flow from it, just as our culture does. They accrued the land by first occupancy. That's worth something. We should have just conquered them outright when nations did that sort of thing, but modern democracies aren't supposed to behave that way, so it's too late for that.

If them govt wanted to expropriate your house, you'd fight them tooth and nail to get the best deal possible. That's what the natives are doing. Unfortunately, their house is huge, in terms of what they have recognized claim over. We just don't have the money to give them fair value.

   

South Africa isn't a good comparison because the racial makeup is completely different than Canada's. RSA had a small white population surrounded by a large black majority, while Canada has the opposite. A small native population(and many of those 'natives' have a substantial amount of European ancestry), surrounded by a huge majority of non Indians.

At the times the treaties were created, in North America, the situation was similar to what exists in southern Africa, with the Indians being in a majority position. However, that has not been the case for quite a few generations and our negotiations with them needs to reflect that reality.

   

They better hurry.


With the 250,000 immigrants coming in every year, the natives get even less relevant as time goes by.

   

yes, I agree wiht everything you say here. So...where do we go from here?

   

We stop catering to the natives every whim and desire, we stop giving them any money, then, we remove the court system from any outstanding land claims because of the extreme prejudice displayed in their decision making to date. We settle the land claims in a minimum amount of time and if the bands refuse to settle we go to an arbitrator who's ruling is binding.

Then, we close off all reserves and treat them as foreign countries with no more rights in Canada than for example the Russians and if they want to deal with our Government they have to create their own Embassies with Ambassadors and all the other trappings of foreign diplomacy.

But, because only whitey can be racist, nothing will happen and these Indians will get to perform racial cleansing freely and our fucking spineless governments will sit back, wring their hands and do what they usually do when a native speaks, tremble, bow down and cave to their demands.

So until those things happens and Kahnawake stops receiving any Government funding it's still a part of Canada and this Serbian style of Government that they feel is their entitlement should be stopped immediately.

   

How about removing the Indian Act, period? It's a hold-over from the Old Empire and it is a nineteenth century institution that has no business in the 21st. No more Indian Act. Half-assed band councils can fly on their own "merits" now. No more paternalism. No more ripping off the Canadian people.

   

Crazy talk. The social upheaval would break Canad apart. There's no will among the majority of the non-natives for such radical action.

As for what Kannawalka is doing - it's perfectly legit. Those are Indian reservations, not a normal part of Canada. Human rights don't apply fully there yet, although some changes were made, and that land it for the Indians under the Indian act.

To make any changes to the situation, legally, we'd have to amend the constitution and remove mention of indigenous rights there. We all know how easy that would be. To just override the constitution, as FOG suggests, would break apart the rule of law in Canada. If the govt can do it to the natives, they can do it to you next. That is just insane. Nothing happens without changing the constitution,

BTW, the daughter of the Chief who convinced Trudeau the elder to put indigenous rights in the constitution will be running for the Liberals in the next election. I give Harper credit for at least trying to hold the line on the natives. If JT gets in, it's going to get much worse.

   

As I said, the way things are going, it's us who will be living in Bantustans. But, if, as Zipp and FOG suggest we treat reserves as foreign nations, they will indeed be just like Bantustans in SA. Not a good way to run a country either way. Which is why Israel should not be walking down that same path either.

   

That's actually a really good point. Immigrants will likely take one look at the bags of cash being thrown at them and wonder, WTF? I doubt an immigrant from Iraq, China, Vietnam, Nigeria, Scotland, Ireland or anyone else would have much empathy.

   

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