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Fannie Mae, at least, was a private shareholder-owned company until very recently.

   

The bad loans made by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are part of the problem but not its cause, just like the 1929 market crash wasn't the CAUSE of the Depression. The collapse of the credit markets in the USA is an effect, not a cause.

   

Enron, which happened years ago, showed that no matter how depraved the illegality of the scam or how damaging the ensuing financial fall-out would be to investors and taxpayers alike that a complete hands-off approach to business was going to be maintained by the Bush Admin. Behr-Stearns and Lehman Brothers, who were both fully private operators, also preceded or happened at the same time as Fannie/Freddie so it's equally justifiable to blame the private operators just as much as it is the government ones. On a side note, even look to Iraq and the antics of Blackwater/Halliburton/KBR for even more sickening examples of business being allowed to police itself. As a minimum the unrestrained free market has to be seen as being far more culpable than anything interventionist politicians or US government regulators did to cause the crisis.

Another thing about Fannie/Freddie: no doubt they were politicized by the Democrats and their insipid "social justice" propaganda to give out mortgages to people who had no chance whatsoever of getting them from private banks. But Bush and the Republicans had 6 years from 2001 to 2006 of alleged pro-business/anti-government "conservative" dominance in Congress and the White House in which they could have rooted out all the socialist policies that were embedded in place like Fannie/Freddie. But they didn't, they left the rot to grow, and they were told to "keep walking past, nothing to see here" by their buddies in the private banks who were giving out as many corrupted mortgages as Fannie/Freddie did. Once again their conservative credentials go entirely out the window. Just goes to show that the only Bush that believed in or promoted any sort of identifiable conservative values was George The Elder. Shrub Jr. certainly didn't.

   

Which was government subsidized, and as such, protected by the government.



So what exactly do you believe is the cause?

   

...and if anyone doesn't believe that, they can look at my portfolio of Citi stock, sitting at $3.60. If it were solely a government problem, Wall Street wouldn't be in the shitter right now.

   

This whole fiasco cost my family about $43000 over the course of a couple of months. If I hadn't bailed out into a GIC two months ago I'd probably have zippo left in an RRSP (in medium-risk stock even!) that was worth about $68000 back in June of last year.

It'll be a cold day in hell before any business-suit free-marketeer slickster pimp motherfucker ever fools me again.

   

Enron and other scandals have nothing to do with free trade and capitalism. A fraud is a fraud. The regulation laws were there, they were just not applied.

I don't understand why you talk about Bush ? We are talking about economy not politics. The Govt. did it.

   

I've suffered a lot of paper loss, between Citi, BMO and TD. My own fault for being heavy in financials instead of better diversified. Then again, every other sector is eating arse too right now.

   

Are you saying the government caused this economic crisis? If so, you're DEAD wrong. Overproduction, poor market research, greed and an overall sense of entitlement by private corporations is the cause of this crisis. The government is responsible for all sorts of shit that I'd love to talk about, but THIS economic crisis is to be blamed SOLELY on corporate culture.

   

Wait wait, what? Enron collapsed in 2001, so what specific Bush policies do you believe led to Enron becoming corrupt? Beyond that, Enron is a different situation compared to the current financial crisis.



Okay, both were fully private, no doubt, so let me try to understand what you're saying.

These loans, brought to you by the Community Reinvestment Act, were basically guaranteed by the government, until finally everything fell apart. No? So this is the fault of the corporation? Partially, sure, but you believe government regulations were not partially at fault in this situation?



So far, free market capitalism usually requires a free market, and lacking of government intervention, so far, a large swath of this crisis has been at fault of the government.

   

Sigh, you know what? I'm hungry, the food is ready on the stove. So I'm going to be lazy and give you a Wiki link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_subpr ... t_policies

You can keep reading on with the Central Banks as well.

   

That's only true in that government under Bush II has been the private sector's puppet. A responsible government without pressure to return favours to corporations could have helped to prevent this situation. Instead, they turned their heads to the raping they're witness to.

   

Blah blah blah. Enron, and much of these about these mortgages issues started under Clinton, and they carried on under Bush. So with that, it is the government that is at fault, and not one man.

Seriously Bush this, Bush that. Blah blah blah. Stop letting your political biases blind you. I'm not. Government regulation and interventionism, as well as government policy, on top of corporate greed, individual irresponsibility, is all at fault here. Individuals accepted these bullshit loans from greedy banks who gleefully accepted government protection through mortgage securities, which started by pressure from both Clinton and Bush administrations (who wanted every American to own a home) along with Clinton policies and legislation on top of Bush inaction against those policies.

   

You're absolutely right that it didn't start with Bush. US government has been in the pocket of corporations for decades.




What are my "political biases"? You're right, there's a lot of groups that are at fault, but all of their faults stem from corporate entitlement and greed.

   

Could not have said better.

It started with the government who decided to push the banks to ease the credit with high interests loans "backed" by money that, actually, Fannie and Freddy didn't have.

   

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