Student refuses to take 'demeaning' test
martin14 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:54 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
I'll give you a hint: he didn't realize the question was rhetorical...
What do you mean by 'rhetorical'?
What do you mean by 'mean' ?
DrCaleb @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:57 pm
llama66 llama66:
I don't feel pity for this girl, no one is telling her to abandon her Laotian heritage. they are merely assessing her ability to communicate in the language of the land. I fail to see how this test is demeaning.
Perhaps her comprehension skills are such that she doesn't understand the meaning of the word 'demeaning'?
hurley_108 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:00 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
llama66 llama66:
I don't feel pity for this girl, no one is telling her to abandon her Laotian heritage. they are merely assessing her ability to communicate in the language of the land. I fail to see how this test is demeaning.
Perhaps her comprehension skills are such that she doesn't understand the meaning of the word 'demeaning'?
I'd think it would be pretty demeaning if I'd been going through HS, speaking and writing in fluent English and then someone comes up and says "you're ESL so you'll have to prove it."
Brenda @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:04 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
llama66 llama66:
I don't feel pity for this girl, no one is telling her to abandon her Laotian heritage. they are merely assessing her ability to communicate in the language of the land. I fail to see how this test is demeaning.
Perhaps her comprehension skills are such that she doesn't understand the meaning of the word 'demeaning'?
I'd think it would be pretty demeaning if I'd been going through HS, speaking and writing in fluent English and then someone comes up and says "you're ESL so you'll have to prove it."
SHE checked the ESL... No one asked her to.
Choban @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:07 pm
Sounds to me like she was looking for a battle and picked this one.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
hurley_108 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:07 pm
Brenda Brenda:
SHE checked the ESL... No one asked her to.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone did.
degenerasian @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:08 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
SHE checked the ESL... No one asked her to.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone did.
Nobody asked her too. She checked it to show off her 'asianness' and she's paying for it.
llama66 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:08 pm
not really if its standardized, its more of the we want to make sure you have all the tools to succeed test. to not make her take the test would create a double standard. I guess they could make it like exams, if you get above 80%, then you could be exempt from the test. but I'm guessing something like that is not in place, so she is going to have to take the test and swallow her pride.
hurley_108 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:10 pm
Choban Choban:
Sounds to me like she was looking for a battle and picked this one.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
I think people capitulate way too easily these days (I know I do, in the name of not being hassled), and applaud her for standing up for herself.
Brenda @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:18 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Choban Choban:
Sounds to me like she was looking for a battle and picked this one.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
I think people capitulate way too easily these days (I know I do, in the name of not being hassled), and applaud her for standing up for herself.
Is she standing up for herself?
I think she is making a fuss out of nothing.
Everybody knows that if you check ESL, you have to prove your proficiency. You might find it bullshit, but I can see the reason. If you can avoid the hassle, by NOT checking that box, why don't you?
Do you seriously think I would check that box if I didn't have to? It's a lot easier to just NOT have to take a test, and still be proud of your heritage. Too bad I am a Permanent Resident, so there is no way I can NOT check that box.
hurley_108 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:24 pm
Brenda Brenda:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Choban Choban:
Sounds to me like she was looking for a battle and picked this one.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
I think people capitulate way too easily these days (I know I do, in the name of not being hassled), and applaud her for standing up for herself.
Is she standing up for herself?
I think she is making a fuss out of nothing.
Everybody knows that if you check ESL, you have to prove your proficiency. You might find it bullshit, but I can see the reason. If you can avoid the hassle, by NOT checking that box, why don't you?
Do you seriously think I would check that box if I didn't have to? It's a lot easier to just NOT have to take a test, and still be proud of your heritage. Too bad I am a Permanent Resident, so there is no way I can NOT check that box.
So the choice then is either lie, or take a ridiculous test? How is that not just a messed up situation?
hurley_108 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:29 pm
Here's an article with a bit more info:
$1:
A Storm Lake teenager was suspended from school this week because she refused to take a test for students who are not fluent in English.
Lori Phanachone, the U.S.-born daughter of immigrants from Laos, says she proved her grasp of English in other ways. The Storm Lake High School senior has a near-perfect grade-point average and acceptance letters from two Iowa colleges.
But because she listed Lao as her first language on a school registration form, Phanachone said administrators forced her to take a test for students who lack basic English skills.
"I'm all for help where it's needed, but for you to generalize everyone who speaks a second language, that's so degrading," said Phanachone, 18, who also might miss her school prom and track season.
Teachers have been suspended in other states for giving in to immigrant parents who refuse the tests on behalf of their children. But national officials say Phanachone's refusal is rare.
"It illustrates the fixation on testing in which school bureaucrats believe the test score is more important than real performance," said Bob Schaeffer, public education director of the National Center for Fair and Open Testing, which opposes standardized testing.
Storm Lake school officials say their hands are tied.
U.S. schools receive federal money for every child who is classified as one who is learning English as a second language. The money covers extra tutoring and mandatory tests.
Schools that fail to give the tests risk losing their federal money.
Superintendent Paul Tedesco declined to talk about Phanachone, but he said her punishment is no different from a child who refuses to remove an offensive T-shirt at school.
"Any student who refuses a legitimate request, something that is legal and moral, is insubordinate," Tedesco said.
Sixty percent of Storm Lake's 2,000 public school students are learning English as a second language, the most of any school district in Iowa.
Jobs at area meatpacking plants draw many immigrant families to the northwest Iowa city.
Phanachone, who was born in California, moved to Storm Lake when her mother married her stepfather. Neither of them speaks English, she said.
She said she listed Lao as her native language at school registration out of respect for her heritage.
Phanachone said she first took the English Language Development Assessment as a sophomore two years ago. She described the test as so easy it's "insulting."
As a junior, Phanachone filled in all "C" answers in protest.
The third time around last week, Phanachone reviewed the questions, closed her test booklet and sat in silence.
"I've worked hard. I've earned my grades, and here they are handing me a test asking me to describe the chair I'm sitting in," she said. "They didn't even treat me as a person. They treated me as an answer I filled in during registration."
School officials suspended Phanachone this week. She was back in regular classes Thursday.
Phanachone said administrators told her she would sit out of track, the prom and other spring activities if she skips the test. Also at stake is her National Honor Society membership, she said.
School officials say Phanachone will get to graduate.
Storm Lake students wore "Support Lori" T-shirts this week in a show of support. A student protest was in the works.
"We've always been taught to stand up for what's right, and now the time has come for that," said senior Kristi Davis, who is a friend of Phanachone's.
Lori Phanachone, the U.S.-born daughter of immigrants from Laos, says she proved her grasp of English in other ways. The Storm Lake High School senior has a near-perfect grade-point average and acceptance letters from two Iowa colleges.
But because she listed Lao as her first language on a school registration form, Phanachone said administrators forced her to take a test for students who lack basic English skills.
"I'm all for help where it's needed, but for you to generalize everyone who speaks a second language, that's so degrading," said Phanachone, 18, who also might miss her school prom and track season.
Teachers have been suspended in other states for giving in to immigrant parents who refuse the tests on behalf of their children. But national officials say Phanachone's refusal is rare.
"It illustrates the fixation on testing in which school bureaucrats believe the test score is more important than real performance," said Bob Schaeffer, public education director of the National Center for Fair and Open Testing, which opposes standardized testing.
Storm Lake school officials say their hands are tied.
U.S. schools receive federal money for every child who is classified as one who is learning English as a second language. The money covers extra tutoring and mandatory tests.
Schools that fail to give the tests risk losing their federal money.
Superintendent Paul Tedesco declined to talk about Phanachone, but he said her punishment is no different from a child who refuses to remove an offensive T-shirt at school.
"Any student who refuses a legitimate request, something that is legal and moral, is insubordinate," Tedesco said.
Sixty percent of Storm Lake's 2,000 public school students are learning English as a second language, the most of any school district in Iowa.
Jobs at area meatpacking plants draw many immigrant families to the northwest Iowa city.
Phanachone, who was born in California, moved to Storm Lake when her mother married her stepfather. Neither of them speaks English, she said.
She said she listed Lao as her native language at school registration out of respect for her heritage.
Phanachone said she first took the English Language Development Assessment as a sophomore two years ago. She described the test as so easy it's "insulting."
As a junior, Phanachone filled in all "C" answers in protest.
The third time around last week, Phanachone reviewed the questions, closed her test booklet and sat in silence.
"I've worked hard. I've earned my grades, and here they are handing me a test asking me to describe the chair I'm sitting in," she said. "They didn't even treat me as a person. They treated me as an answer I filled in during registration."
School officials suspended Phanachone this week. She was back in regular classes Thursday.
Phanachone said administrators told her she would sit out of track, the prom and other spring activities if she skips the test. Also at stake is her National Honor Society membership, she said.
School officials say Phanachone will get to graduate.
Storm Lake students wore "Support Lori" T-shirts this week in a show of support. A student protest was in the works.
"We've always been taught to stand up for what's right, and now the time has come for that," said senior Kristi Davis, who is a friend of Phanachone's.
This girl is taking a truly admirable stand for her heritage and for herself against a test-crazy bureaucracy. She deserves praise and support, not ridicule and contempt.
Yogi @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:33 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
Choban Choban:
Sounds to me like she was looking for a battle and picked this one.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
Having said that, suck it up, If she is in fact ESL just take the test, I can understand championing yourself for a cause but this one is unnessessary, perhaps she should feed starving orphans or work to make her home country a better place. Her priorities are off.
I think people capitulate way too easily these days (I know I do, in the name of not being hassled), and applaud her for standing up for herself.
Is she standing up for herself?
I think she is making a fuss out of nothing.
Everybody knows that if you check ESL, you have to prove your proficiency. You might find it bullshit, but I can see the reason. If you can avoid the hassle, by NOT checking that box, why don't you?
Do you seriously think I would check that box if I didn't have to? It's a lot easier to just NOT have to take a test, and still be proud of your heritage. Too bad I am a Permanent Resident, so there is no way I can NOT check that box.
So the choice then is either lie, or take a ridiculous test? How is that not just a messed up situation?[/quote]
'It' is considered 'side-stepping beauracracy'!
hurley_108 @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:35 pm
Furthermore, from the link I posted earlier:
$1:
An LEP student in the Commonwealth of Virginia is classified according to the federal government definition as described in Public Law 107-110, the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001.
An LEP student is classified as one :
(A) who is aged 3 through 21;
(B) who is enrolled or preparing to enroll in an elementary school or secondary school;
(C) (i) who was not born in the United States or whose native language is a language other than English; and who comes from an environment where a language other than English is dominant
OR
(ii) (I) who is a Native American or Alaska Native, or a native resident of outlying areas; and
(II) who comes from an environment where a language other than English has had a significant impact on the individual's level of English language proficiency;
OR
(iii) who is migratory, whose native language is a language other than English, and who comes from an environment where a language other than English is dominant;
AND
(D) whose difficulties speaking, reading, writing, or understanding the English language may be sufficient to deny the individual --
(i) the ability to meet the State's proficient level of achievement on State assessments described in section 1111(b)(3);
(ii) the ability to achieve successfully in classrooms where the language of instruction is English; or
(iii) the opportunity to participate fully in society.
[P.L. 107-110, Title IX, Part A, Sec. 9101, (25)]
An LEP student is classified as one :
(A) who is aged 3 through 21;
(B) who is enrolled or preparing to enroll in an elementary school or secondary school;
(C) (i) who was not born in the United States or whose native language is a language other than English; and who comes from an environment where a language other than English is dominant
OR
(ii) (I) who is a Native American or Alaska Native, or a native resident of outlying areas; and
(II) who comes from an environment where a language other than English has had a significant impact on the individual's level of English language proficiency;
OR
(iii) who is migratory, whose native language is a language other than English, and who comes from an environment where a language other than English is dominant;
AND
(D) whose difficulties speaking, reading, writing, or understanding the English language may be sufficient to deny the individual --
(i) the ability to meet the State's proficient level of achievement on State assessments described in section 1111(b)(3);
(ii) the ability to achieve successfully in classrooms where the language of instruction is English; or
(iii) the opportunity to participate fully in society.
[P.L. 107-110, Title IX, Part A, Sec. 9101, (25)]
Note the AND toward the end. I realize this is from a school in a different state, but it certainly seems to me that she doesn't meet the AND part, and should be excused from the test. The only difference is the school loses money if she doesn't take it.
Brenda @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:39 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
So the choice then is either lie, or take a ridiculous test? How is that not just a messed up situation?
It's not lying, imo.
I expect my kids to be fluent in English by the time they are ready for highschool, and I expect them to see English as their first language, since we live in an English speaking country. As you well know, they are not born here.
Do you think I like taking that test? I think Dziekansky should have taken it, don't you? Bureaucrasy doesn't see the difference between Dziekansky, who didn't speak a word, or her, when they both check the ELS box. It's that simple. It's not personal, don't take it that way.