A Comment on the Terrorism in Toronto

Written By: The Old Poop
Date: 2006-06-03 15:07:00
<a href="/article/30733463-a-comment-on-the-terrorism-in-toronto">Article Link</a>

If anyone doubts that were already a surveillance society, I need only point out that the people arrested were probably under surveillance for some time. If they are homegrown terrorists, then I'll bet dollars to doughnuts they had their right to privacy violated long before there was any probable cause. I find that MUCH scarier than the bombs they allegedly had.

We are being led into a fascist state. Day by day, year by year, our freedoms will be taken from us if we allow it, and we have been allowing it thus far. This trend has to stop and it has to stop NOW. The alternative is that our children will grow up to live under a regime every bit as repressive as Hitler's Germany, or Stalin's USSR.

It would be far better to kick out any government that tries to involve Canada as a partner in the USA's current Imperial Crusade. Face it, "the terrorists" are mostly people who are sick of the US sticking its nose where it doesn't belong and terrorizing people all over the planet. Some of them are fighting back. In much of the world they are freedom fighters. Here in the West we call them terrorists because it's much easier to demonize an enemy with a nasty name.

How many of us asked our government to get involved in the coup in Haiti, or combat in Afghanistan? Ask yourself; ask your neighbor; take a poll. Chances are pretty good nobody did. So why did we invade Haiti in 2004? Why did we put our troops in a combat role in Afghanistan? If we were truly bringing them a better way of life then there would be no cause for them to hate us or to want to bomb us. That many of them do hate us should tell us we are doing something terribly wrong. That many might be our own citizens should tell us how desperate the situation of their relatives in the other country must be to arouse such fanatical sympathy. Do they "hate freedom"? Quite the opposite, I'd say. They hate oppression, and so should we.

If we truly want to end terrorism in Canada, we should divorce Canada from any participation in the US wars of aggression. Indeed we should be standing against such wars. We should be championing liberty by having it. I would much rather see us do that as a means of ending terrorism in Canada than see us turn into an Orwellian police state.

Just how much are we willing to pay for "safety?" I contend that we've paid far too much already.

[Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on June 5, 2006]

ID cards are my guess, at which point I will be gong to Ottawa to kill any asshole that thinks I must carry around a mandatory biometric ID card, I will become part of the fourth reich over my dead body.

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My freedom is more important than your great idea.
– Anonymous

"The arrests last night in Toronto of several people involved in a terrorist bombing plot seem right on schedule, following as they do a few days after a news release by CSIS that we are breeding "home grown terrorists" in Canada."
I still havre no idea why Csis would make they Announcement thethey did, except for a propaganda "IWe told you so!" although the carefullily crafted "we are breeding "home grown terrorists" in Canada." would seem to imply "we" are somehow to blame.

Nothing here has changed my mind that the Hegelian dialectic is not at work and laws will be enacted to have ALL Canadians under suspicion.

even the prevention of an imagined Canadian 9/11 will be justification for such laws

Lock-down North America cannot be to far off

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The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein

Couldn't agree more. The elite's war for oil and dollar hegamony is becoming more unpopular. Our switch from a law-enforcement role in Afghanistan to one of muscle for the US is unpopular and becoming more unpopular all the time. The elite need to remind us of what we're supposed to believe these invasions and occupations are all about.

I just heard Harper's comments on the radio. Not suprisingly, he parrots his mentor, King George, in saying that they hate our freedoms and our way of life. No mention of the possibility that they hate us NOW because of our participation in the drive for US Empire and the destruction of other people's freedoms and way of life.

The news conference this morning and the reports from the media just SCREAM propaganda. Whether or not these people were actually planning on bombing anyone is not up for debate. Nobody uses the "We BELIEVE they were planning" or "the ALLEGED terrorists" - everything is being stated as absolute fact - as if the trials have already been held and guilty verdicts handed out. We are not supposed to even entertain the idea that perhaps these people are innocent of the charges - guilty until proven guilty has taken over from the old fashioned idea of innocent until proven guilty.

Remember El Maati? The truck driver that was detained at the US border for possessing a map that indicated sensitive locations in Ottawa? The map had government buildings, biological labs, and nuclear facilities marked on it.

The news reports all left no doubt that this map was intended as a battle plan for a terrorist attack. It wasn't until much later that we learned the supposed terrorist map was a visitor's map printed by government complete with biological and nuclear facities marked. We also learned that the map was left in the truck by a previous driver that had been delivering in that area. Or rather, you learned this if you happened to read the right sections of the right newspapers - the story was not covered widely.

Remember the "terrorist planning videos" blasted across TV news and newspaper headlines shortly after 9/11? They were presented as proof positive that these terrorists had been casing for attacks. At no point were we allowed to believe that these people were simply tourists with crappy videography skills - yet that is exactly the verdicts reached in EVERY case that went before a judge. Again, only the accusations were widely publicised, not the verdicts.

At the very least, I believe this story is being hyped by both government and media to make sure we stick to the American Empire script: "Be afraid, give up your liberty so we can protect you". I don't know whether the accused are guilty or not, nor CAN I know until a fair and impartial trial is held and a verdict made. What I DO know is that we can be sure that this is will be another salvo in our government's war against our freedom.

Fear of terrorism is irrational at best. If one really looks at it you have a better chance dying from a car accident or the flu. There is no way we should give up any freedoms whatsoever for this or any plot. Providing the whole thing is not just concocted by the same troupe that brought us 911. It's the fearfull guys like Armyguy who uses lots of capital letters to show us how THE SKY IS FALLING. How we should deal with these problems is find out what bothers these terrorists and why they want to kill us. Something like "I dunno" Stop killing my people in afganistan and we'll leave you alone. Sounds like a rational idea to me. Let the women over there wear burkhas. They will throw off that yolk with time. Its certainly not our business what they do.

Repeat?

A couple of years ago they did the same thing: huge coverage of the 19 guys who allegedly were going to fly planes into Pickering--all released and turned out to be total BS.

Given that earlier in the week the Senate testimony of that Hooper dude, and then there is a mass arrest 'made to order' of 'homegrown' terrorists is a little too pat. (Of course, they have to be 'homegrown'--they can't push the 'foreign' sleeper cell BS anymore)

Need a lot more evidence before I subscribe to the fear mongering...

Yeah and agree with the topic poster's comments; there is more than enough rationale at this point to oppose US imperialism--to reduce everything to terrorism is a little much and criminalize legitimate struggle is a trap that Progressives should avoid, so they don't sound like imperialist war-mongers themselves.

I urge people to email or write cc'ed to everyone you can think of that needs to be aware of the fact that not all of us agree with how our business is being done. I sent this:

Slowly our governments have been turning Canada into a country that we the people do not recognize as our own. The group of MPs and the PM that act as though they alone run the country all the while making decisions that put us in peril and that undermine how we would want to act as a country at every turn. You and the hateful policies you are making are the ones responsible for any terror that may arrive in Canada.. You and your policy of Canada follows the Empire, our corporate dictator, and does not do what is in the peoples' best interest is what brings peril to us. How did it happen that Canada has no say in its future? How did it happen that we now have the FBI and the CIA basically arresting people in our own country? Just to think of that happening says you are worthless to us. You have no power of your own. And by being powerless you usurp the power of all Canadians. But I guess it only stands to reason that when useless, powerless people are being voted into power we will end up with a useless, powerless country. That knowing breaks my heart.

Harper needs to remove his "peril sensitive glasses" and start looking at the reality of peril and just how we arrive at it. Harper like Graham and Martin before him are all covered in the blood of innocent people and they have no compunction about using foul intelligence to arrest the brown people because they need an enemy to instil the fear that gives them the false power they thrive on knowing how inadequate they are as people.

The only person that will be left happy after Harper's war on Canada and Canadians will be Brian Mulroney. He can go to his grave knowing that he lost the only title he ever had in Canada "The most hated Canadian PM in history".

So more rational and thoughtful people may have more effect than I will as I tend to fly off the handle and can go overboard sometimes. Help me out here comrades!

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

Not 2 days ago, almost a dozen or so of the regular posters here were screaming that it was irresponsible for CSIS to say that there were "homegrown terrorists". That it was time to put up or shut up, and that the whole information release was to do with justification of budgets and fearmongering. Well damn if they didn't just go and arrest 17 people that fit the whole "homegrown" label. All Canadians. And predictably, you lot can't help but jump out with the whole conspiracy thing the minute it is released.

Whatever you or I have to say on this is purely opinion at this point. Before we all jump all over each other in our zeal to toss mud at one another... lets try and list the facts of the case and actually figure out if these guys are dupes, stooges or actual terrorists. Just because I believe that there are terrorists around, doesn't mean that these guys are them. Just because you believe that most of the bombings etc... were the work of Bush and Co... doesn't mean that there isn't people out there who want to do us harm and that these guys are not the real deal.

I have not seen any names posted of any of the suspect yet. I assume since they were all remanded until Tuesday, we'll have something for tomorrow. Supposedly, this group had procured 3 tonnes of ammonia nitrate (fertilizer). More than 3 times the volume that McVeigh used in Oklahoma. If these guys are the real deal, good for CSIS and the cops who collared them. If this is the work of Harper in the guise of Bush and Co... well, this should fall apart like a deck of cards if he is as incompetent as the group here believes.

I won't debate the point until we see some facts. Right now, we don't have much other than speculation and opinion. Sit tight gang, it's going to be a fun couple of weeks on Vive...

For once I agree with you Michael.

A fully open and public trial with all the evidence presented without any form of media blackout would go a long way towards re-establishing my faith in the system.

But is there's any secrecy and if this trial is closed, then all bets are off.

I'm going to see if the government plays fair or assumes guilty until proven innocent.

If guilt is assumed, then we are all in serious trouble.

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"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

"The Weapon" - Rush

Congratulation Michael on a well presentes post
Dio

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The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein

Not 2 days ago, almost a dozen or so of the regular posters here were screaming that it was irresponsible for CSIS to say that there were "homegrown terrorists". <

A lot also posted that a sham is to be expected. When Harper united with the biggest "fabricators & fixers" in the world, one may not trust the validity. Harper has joined with the boys that nobody trusts. The Iraq war was a sham and that was a far bigger episode then any mere ones in Canada.

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Expect little from life and get more from it.

<blockquote>Well damn if they didn't just go and arrest 17 people that fit the whole "homegrown" label. All Canadians. And predictably, you lot can't help but jump out with the whole conspiracy thing the minute it is released.</blockquote> No one has been found guilty of anything, yet you are assuming that these people are guilty of exactly what the government is alleging. Where have you been since Sept 11, 2001? We've seen nothing but a pack of lies since, no evidence, no trials, no arrests, and this is more of the same bullshit right on schedule as many of us predicted. All that I see are more police, more laws, less freedom, more wars for profit, and plenty of fear mongering - but no real terrorists (other than the United States government, its mercenaries for hire, and its bought and paid for allies). A few days ago I predicted the 'terrorist' event would be a lot worse - an actual bombing on Canadian soil with deaths - so we're lucky that they decided to try some fear mongering instead of the real thing. Next up? A big push for more laws designed to lock we-the-people down before word gets out that these latest arrests are bogus. I expect we simply won't hear anything for a few years, as these people will be locked up for a long time before a trial takes place, and by that time no one will notice when all 17 of these people are quietly released. Another thing that will probably happen: Canadian troops will get a lot more involved in the killing in Afghanistan. Expect to see more dead and maimed Cadian soldiers comming home soon, and expect to hear more horror stories of atrocities commited by NATO troops in Afghanistan.

Yes let's wait. Let's not be like Harper and jump on the Iranian arm bands for Jews bandwagon type of thing now...

These schmucks in Toronto look to be the 'real' deal. What I expect to happen after the case becomes clear is for the Harper government to tie it into the mission in Afghanistan.

And Stockwell 'man walked with the dinosaurs' Day has already floated the idea of national ID cards before, I would also expect him to pick up where he left off. Early cost projections - only $7 billion.

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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.

This just happened in England yesterday. A small army consisting of 250 cops and 100's of reporters were used to arrest a couple of people. I guess the police had to shot someone in the process because they were out gunned???? <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2208222,00.html">Man shot in raid on suspected chemical bomb factory</a> What an amazing coincidence that almost the exact same thing just happened here in Canada. What a joke.

I just heard on the radio that Parliament or CSIS headquarters were apparently the intended targets for the bombing.

These guys weren't terrorists, they were freedom fighters!