The NDP takes the high road...again

wheelin costen

"we play by different rules. As for Saddam's friendship, we didn't put him in power, and stand by watching as he killed those who opposed him,..."

Excuse me??? YES YOU DID!!! And to make it even worse? YOU STILL ARE!!! No. I stand corrected. YOU are helping them to get killed. God Bless Canada, in all her humane glory. STILL can't get it through your thick heads? People are dying right now. Still dying. AS ALWAYS. And you go on, and on, and on, and on...about how "superior" you "enlightened", "progressive" Canadians are and how much you hate America and Americans. As always you miss every point anyone ever tries to make. People are DYING! Get it yet? Is your record player's needle STILL stuck in that same old tired groove that is drowning out virtually EVERYTHING going on in the world around you? Hey. I Tried. Some people just can't hear above the roar of their own voice. Please listen. Innocent people are dying right now. What are you doing about it, and what will you do about it? Please don't just blow it off again. Help them. Please.

}} The companies that come to Canada, buy Canadian companies, and then transfer profit to their U.S. parent companies, thereby reducing taxes to Canada. {{

Like the NHL has done, correct?

}} We not only have a right to speak out and stand up for Canada, but we also have an obligation to do so. It is our country after all. {{ 
 
That is your only valid point. Now insert America for the word Canada in that statement. Get it now? Keep your diseased beef and clear cut lumber, and over payed brat hockey players who financially break U.S. businesses and communities, and send all their tax revenue back home to Canada while the U.S. government (and people) get nothing as you can't tax a business which is operating at a loss and has no income with all their money headed North to Canada. 
 
NHL player average salary? PLUS 1.79 MILLION USD. 
Majority of NHL players? Canadians. 
Euros/yanks combined make up the remaining approx. 30%. 
 
NHL Team average income? MINUS 9.09 MILLION USD!!! 
Number of NHL teams in America out of 30? 24. 
Who gets the tax money? Canadian government to spend on it's people. 
Who gets the shaft after paying for rinks and arenas and infrastructure to provide Canadian jobs? (local communitiy donations, and bonds, and levies/taxes not just the owners), training facilities, and who buys the majority of revenue generating tickets? The American people. 
 
Do Americans have the benefit of anything related to the operation of the NHL at all? No. 
 
Any tax revenue generated by the NHL for Americans to help pay for social security, roads, schools, hospitals, medicare, welfare programs? No. 
 
Typical scenario. Keep your beef. And your lumber. And your hockey boobs. And your fish. And your seal skins. Get it yet? We do not need you. Keep your oil. Keep your own persons in your own country. Don't allow Americans in Canada. Put up or shut up. You can not suck and blow at the same time although you are sure trying hard enough. We have recognized your "sovereignty", and we have left you alone. And we do not haze and harass people of Canadian background/descent/national origin in the United States of America. We do what needs to be done in the world. We do not tear apart and try to destroy everyone who attempts to do something positive in the world as do you. No, we are not even remotely alike. We have morals, and values, and compassion, the motivation and determination to act instead of whine and criticize...and above all else we have a VERY clean conscience. Maybe that's why we aren't like you. 
 
Yes, in your own statement insert America in lieu of Canada please. You just might get it then. We in the past left you alone. YOU choose to focus on attacking us. You achived getting a TINY bit of attention from just a mere handful of us, and you are not dealing with it very well at all from the appearrance of things here. Live and let live. Go about your "business" of promoting Canada. I encourage that. But I won't sit still with my thumb you know where while you intently focus on nothing but America, America, America on what is SUPPOSED to be a Canadian site about, and for Canada and Canadians. How regressive can one get? Focusing hatred on a group based on their national origin as ploy to rally the troops behind YOU as their "savior" for your precious election is not only absurd, but criminal. Is that what the CAP, or NDP stand for and represent? Is that what GOOD Canadians represent? I think not. There are MANY good Canadians out there. In fact the MAJORITY of Canadians are good, well intentioned people. YOU? Not among that group from all indications. Not only a small minority, but a small minded minority. It would be awesome and wonderful for the majority of good Canadians and good Americans to get along well, and support one another, but it will never happen with hate groups such as yours operating to pull the rug out beneath the feet of the brotherhood of man on the continent. 
 
If you can't do something positive and constructive, then please. Just leave us alone, and go your own way. And take all those Canadian "goodies" with you. Like the NHL. And Beef. And... 
 
P.S. Did anyone know that there are two vastly different systems of measurement in use for determining alcohol content in beer in the U.S. and Canada? Yes there is. One does it by volume and the other by weight. The actual alcoholic content of U.S. and Canadian beer is virtually identical! Go figure. Yet ANOTHER Canadian myth exploded. 
<a href="http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/Magazine/Jf02/justthebeerfacts.asp">http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/Magazine/Jf02/justthebeerfacts.asp</a> 
 
<a href="http://www.worldofbeer.com/brightbeer/canbeermyth.html">http://www.worldofbeer.com/brightbeer/canbeermyth.html</a> 
 
<a href="http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerbreak/archives/beerbreak0301.php">http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerbreak/archives/beerbreak0301.php</a> 
 
Speaking of operating on emotion and mythology/hype as opposed to facts. FYI. Enjoy. Peace...

from all appearances that anon was trying to promote some peace and understanding by smacking some folks upside the head (figuratively) to wake them up to what the world COULD be like if Americans were to engage identically to what vivelecanada's admin and adoring regulars are engaged in. In other words, holding up a MIRROR for vive people so that they can see how THEY look to others, and may see how it feels themselves to be constantly under bombardment and constantly stabbed in the back. Tit for tat. Creates an environment of hostility much more than "peace" doesn't it? Clever. I caught the obvious contradiction..."North Americans 4 Peace?" It's like "Vive Le Canada"...a title which implies one thing, yet content which is almost exactly the opposite. Word play. Just like Vive Le Canada. Quite clever if you ask me, but most probably don't see it. Most don't appear to think at all or see much beyond the tip of their own nose. It's all most likely far above everyone's head that frequents this site. I'd wager that person's trying to fix a serious problem, although he may be going about it wrong, as the measure of success would be to create thought...which would lead to more open minded, caring, compassionate relations between the two peoples. Especially with so many Americans and Canadians having cross border relations and jobs, and other ties. Maybe this guy's trying to put the brakes on hate sites such as this one by drawing attention to it, and putting it right out on front street for everyone to see. Hooking that nasty old bat and draggin' it right out from it's dark hateful old cave into the light of day. Then it can be ascertained by any and all who care to investigate thoroughly just who is operating on fact versus fiction. Who is trying to create and promote peace, tolerance for others, and understanding, as opposed to advocating violence/vengeance/hate through intentional misleading, and intentional misinformation towards the other group based on national origin, advocating actively assisting their enemies to hurt it's people, and hurt it's people by actively engaging in tactics meant to harm it's economy as opposed to being "for Country XY". When in all actuality it is "against Country XZ". Creating a hostile environment in which to live for people based on their membership of that particular national origin which may not have been their chocie in the first place. Who can choose where they are bron and who they are born to? Exactly. As opposed to a site such as this one which is. Looking at that site, early on the guy set out to prove a point and he's driving it home with authority. I have an idea of what's up because I took the time, being concerned as I was, to contact him to see what the purpose was. I'll not break that confidence, but i'd guess if anyone else were to do the same, they'd also be inforemd. I'd wager every one of you here who has been to that blog ( <a href="http://www.NorthAmericans4Peace.blogspot.com">http://www.NorthAmericans4Peace.blogspot.com</a> )has been royally peeved. And every American who has been to it has been also. Because they're learning about US and what we're doing to them. And WE can't take it like WE can dish it out. He wants people here in their comfort zones of freely attacking people without consequence to see just a hint of a possible "consequence" of the effect upon U.S. Canadian relations and then use their imagination if it spreads....as a country of 32 million...try multipying that effect from 1 to 300 million Americans feeling that way. Funny thing is he's achieving far more success than he realized from all appearances. It may have become a bit bigger than he intended. It's the old "two can play that game" scenario. That blog has been popping up all over. I think someone got under someone's skin a bit too much with all their hate propaganda and now have created a few monsters out there. That blog is not the only one by far! New one's are being created every day, every hour. Me thinks someone has most definitely bitten off more than they can chew, but the scary part is that it will effect us all in the end. As word gets out to more and more Americans you won't ever have to fear "deep integration" anymore, trust me. We'd be lucky if anyone stepped foot (or wallet) across the border. In fact sthompson told someone who visited this site not too long ago after deleting their comments for not agreeing with her agenda that they should go away and start their own blog. Before this "hide and go peek" censorship thing was started about a week or so ago and the jeese, thompson, calumny, dr caleb collective were romping around terrorizing everyone and deleting everything that didn't fit their agenda of trashing Americans. I think we're seeing a bit of a lashback on that one now.

>>democratic socialism<<

An oxymoron.

>> "Fringe" and "Paternalistic"<<

Nope, nothing that says “fringe element” in some of the comments here. As well as the tiny amount of representatives it elects. "Paternalistic"? What other word would you use to describe a mammoth bureaucracy that is absolutely sure it knows what is best for you at any given moment?

>> It would definitely be a benefit to your limited knowledge of Canadian history.<<

I have ratcheted my pompous level up as high as it goes here and still I can’t keep up with you people. Some of you can be so wrong yet so smug about it.

Excellent, Thank You.
Once our rivalry was funny and good natured but we knew we had each other covered in the end. It isn’t funny anymore, not by a long shot.
It is my sincerest hope we can get back to that, however I really doubt it at this point. One of the things that has really pissed Canadians off is the American preoccupation with all things American. Americans don’t think too much about Canada, not as a deliberate slight, but because >most< people tend to be most concerned with their own dilemmas. When you put this together with the Canadian obsession with the USA it creates a big gulf.
Americans are starting to get an education though. Sites like North Americans4Peace are the thin end of the wedge and are a direct result of the deliberate kind of lying propaganda that this, and other sites and so called news outlets promote.
I don’t know how to feel about that site yet. Is that going to be a part of the Canadian education on all things American? I don’t think that could get much more slanted regardless.

Really, the only thing I can try to do is put the spotlight on the more obvious demagoguery like the above “deep integration” debate. It is “branding” to sell a “product”. Take a good look at the product.

>>but the scary part is that it will effect us all in the end.<<

You are exactly, exactly right. An excellent post.

<a href="http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/factsheet.xhtml?COID=92356&cm_ven=PAID&cm_cat=OVR&cm_pla=CO3&cm_ite=vivendi%20universal">http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/factsheet.xhtml?COID=92356&cm_ven=PAID&cm_cat=OVR&cm_pla=CO3&cm_ite=vivendi%20universal</a> 
 
<a href="http://www.hoovers.com/bertelsmann/--ID__40661--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml">http://www.hoovers.com/bertelsmann/--ID__40661--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml</a> 
 
<a href="http://www.hoovers.com/vivendi-universal/--ID__92356--/free-co-subs.xhtml">http://www.hoovers.com/vivendi-universal/--ID__92356--/free-co-subs.xhtml</a> 
 
All aboot Power Corporation of Canada owned Vivendi Universal. Newsweek being under the Vivendi "umbrella" recently the direct cause of a false "news report" resulting in anti-American rioting and deaths of innocents in Afganistan. The ONLY media outlets in America that French-Canadian Power Corp. controlled Vivendi Universal does NOT own, operate and control is your dreaded Fox News and your dreaded CNN. Questions anyone? High Roady toadies...where are you??? "DEEP INTEGRATION" ???? Just come on back accusing America of "deeply integrating" you again. After it's been shown who is controlling who. And yet you INSIST on causing hate and resentment within Canadian society towards innocent people inside as well as outside of Canada's borders solely because of you burning hatred for a group of people based solely upon their ethnic background/race/national origin. Again. Questions anyone? Are we still the "enlightened" people we THOUGHT we were? Or still stubbornly choosing to hate blindly.

>> The companies that come to Canada, buy Canadian companies, and then transfer profit to their U.S. parent companies, thereby reducing taxes to Canada.<<<

No, your stupid socialist tax structure drives them out. Why file in Canada if you can save millions filing elsewhere? Why are the Irving’s hiding their assets in the Bahamas and the Cayman Islands? Is it because they are secretly American?

>> Small business and large multinational corporations are not the same thing.<<

Yes they are to the Canadian revenue agency. And now I see you are putting the word “multinational” in front of the big bad word “corporation”. THEY STILL PROVIDE JOBS! I have no doubt that you will drive them out if you could, but who is going to do business with Canada if you can only be Canadian to do business in Canada? Should you only be an American to do business in the USA?
You want a system that is 100% take and 0% give. The world doesn’t work that way.

>>>That is totally suicidal, and anyone who signed that deal, was signing the death sentence for many Canadians, who will no doubt freeze in the dark. <<

What a diva, what a drama queen. Scaremongering is just another sign of your fascist mentality. The fact that nafta says that you have to charge fair market for your oil is “signing the death sentence for many Canadians, who will no doubt freeze in the dark”...

Why don’t you just cut to the chase and draw up your own Nuremburg laws? No intermarriage between Canadians and Americans, no unsupervised trade, Canadians can’t employ Americans ect. You and Susan and the rest of the lemmings that have been propagandized with lies about “deep integration” can go around at night and smash up American owned business and you can make the Yanks wear little stars on their coats.

Oh wait, you already have tourists and pee wee hockey teams being attacked, People being told to go the fuck back to the states…
Well done…

Where I come from we call sites like that "feeding the fire". Despite your explanation for it, and I'm no expert on American culture, I believe you folks refer to it as "retaliation". You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a feeling you won't. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this site. In fact, my very first correspondance with the people who run it was a complaint that they would use French language in its title and use it to propagate Anglo Canadian "values" (cough).

}} Sites like North Americans4Peace are the thin end of the wedge and are a direct result of the deliberate kind of lying propaganda that this, and other sites and so called news outlets promote.
I don’t know how to feel about that site yet. Is that going to be a part of the Canadian education on all things American? {{

I believe it's the other way around. The old one sided thing of Canadians obsessing over America and thrashing her and her people with total impunity, (no one noticing and no one fighting back), while being totally ignored is coming to an end. No longer a one-sided hate festival. Canada appears to be getting it's wish granted. The other side is turning around to take a good long look and is putting on the gloves, eh. You all DID desperately want to be "noticed" by Americans, right? The future appears to be that some Americans might start "obsessing" over Canada, and Canadians and what they are up to in efforts to warn their society about us. The same as us obsessing about and hitting them below the belt, while they're not looking from behind, etc. We've done everything imaginable to them but poison their food and water. I see nothing at all wrong with them defending themselves, or at least protecting themselves from us, if this site is representative of us as a people. Isn't that what vivelehateallamericans.ca is about? Attempts to "educate" Canadians all about everything (but just the bad) that America is up to to keep us "well-informed" and against them, and to hop on our respective political campaign wagons as we are the "chosen ones" to save us from the "Great Satan"? Seems as if that tactic worked for a certain German once, why not you guys? Hey. By all means. FAIR IS FAIR, eh? Why not have an American start up a website to educate all of America as to what us good Canadians are up to behind their trusting, naive backs? Admirable. Really. Quite patriotic if you ask me. So tit for tat, eh. It's fair. Who could fault them? And we have vivelehate.ca to thank for the continual improvements to U.S. /Canadian "relations" for the "benefit" of all. Oh, those pesky annonymooses, eh...better call for (p)Rick Mercer and the rest of the Canadian heroes...

I'd beg to differ. You just can't seem to keep your foot out of your mouth, no matter what the subject. 
 
You may think that those who try to press an argument do so for the sole purpose of opposing you, but this action is prompted merely by the regurgitated idiocy that you post. 
 
Why don't you try and actually substantiate the points you make about the NDP... but we both already know you have formulated you stance on the matter from what has splashed across your screen from a single webpage, if that at all. What a surprise your completely "orginal" rebuttal was: fringe and paternalistic. As if it were taken right from what you saw last night on FOX, minus even the most shallow of thought and ignoring all of the facts. 
 
I'll be glad to actually read what you post as long as you keep yourself from wandering onto a dozen other off-topic tangents. For now, here's an article that would be a good place for you to start on this subject: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDP">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDP</a>

>>What you repeat may be correct but it doesn't prove anything about NAFTA. <<

I have been kicking this around in my head, other then a 800 page comprehensive study of the North American Free Trade Agreement and how it is directly correlated to trade surpluses, which you don’t want to read, wont read and I sure as hell don’t want to write, what would persuade you?

An idea was to have a line graph showing pre Nafta trade surpluses and deficits going back to, say, WW2 and show the way they have taken off for Canada since nafta was signed. (think bumpy road and then line pointing up at about a 30-40 degree angle.) but would you find that persuasive?

Short of me showing up at your doorstep with a PowerPoint presentation and you with your eyes held open like Alex in A Clockwork Orange I am not sure what else would work, if that.

You know what, as an American it would probably be in my best interests to scrap Nafta…

>. And it is NAFTA that is being discussed not trade deficits nor growth rates...<<

Trade with the USA then, is trade with the USA a good thing for Canada or a bad thing?

>> It is our position that the goal of NAFTA is not to increase trade, but to gain the ability to steer the economy of this country in such a way as to benefit the US and undermine Canada.<<

Well, you attempt to show this with:

>> For instance, the favouring of GM crops as a way to increase and conslidate the holdings of the major US agribusinesses (Monsanto to name one) as well as threatening the producers of non-modified crops due to contamination by GMOs.<<<

So NAFTA favors GM crops? Where is that written in there? Is Monsanto “a bad guy” because they may (or may not) use “GM crops” in order to increase their yield? Or are they bad because they are American? Are “GM crops” inherently a bad thing?

>> Is it just a conincidence that Canada and the US are the only major proponents of these said crops?<<

No, Europe doesn’t like it because they want an excuse to subsidize their own “agribusinesses”. Australia plays both sides of the issue, the Africans don’t want to hurt their (small and non threatening) European market.

If you would, please define to me what the term “gm crops” means to you and why it is a bad thing.

>> I pose that Nafta has played some role in having Canada to promotes this form of unsustainable agriculture<<

OK, how is it “unsustainable” and how is NAFTA promoting it?

>> You just can't seem to keep your foot out of your mouth, no matter what the subject.<<

Really, want to explain to me again how the diesel electric submarines that Canada bought are quieter then our nuclear ones again. This seems to be your case history Canuck, lecturing like a big braying ass and as it turns out you don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

>> You may think that those who try to press an argument do so for the sole purpose of opposing you,<<

Not at all, in your case I suspect you are probably not doing all that well in the semi capitalist system and instead of questioning what it is about >you< that is holding you back you are questioning what it is about >the system< that is holding you back.

>> but this action is prompted merely by the regurgitated idiocy that you post.<<

“Regurgitated”! It is my own idiocy thank you very much. Fine then, “press an argument”, you haven’t yet. Just called me an idiot and told me to go read, I welcome an “argument” not insults.

>>. but we both already know you have formulated you stance on the matter from what has splashed across your screen from a single webpage, if that at all, What a surprise your completely "orginal" rebuttal was: fringe and paternalistic. As if it were taken right from what you saw last night on FOX, minus even the most shallow of thought and ignoring all of the facts.<<

What are all these wonderful facts? Tell me o learned one…

>>What a surprise your completely "orginal" rebuttal was: fringe and paternalistic.<<

If it has been said before I hadn’t heard it, however it should tell you something that that seems to be the prevailing view. It tells me something that you take any criticism of your glorious workers party so viscerally.
Governments screw things up, the bigger and more intrusive the government is, the less efficient and more bungling it is. The more rights you cede to it, the less free you are. People all over the world have figured this out and are moving away from it. Not you though.

>. I'll be glad to actually read what you post as long as you keep yourself from wandering onto a dozen other off-topic tangents.<<<

What tangent there kiddo, and why would you start to “actually read” at this late date?
Why don’t you attack the statement, rather then the author? An ad hominem attack is the last resort of a failed idea. Persuade me…

>> For now, here's an article that would be a good place for you to start on this subject:<<,

Why don’t YOU persuade me, I already have an encyclopedia.

So that does leave Fox and CNN as the only major non-French Canadian controlled media outlets in the United States of America. Wow. No wonder the blue americans have the idea the "world" hates them. When it's only a handful of business connected countries. Like us. Everyone but Fox and CNN has been telling them that. To undermine the current U.S. government administration no doubt. Interfering in another country's affairs to influence their elections, government, population, businesses, and military to one's own benefit with help from certain influential insiders like Al Gore and the Clintons. And here we are "protesting 'deep integration'". Oh the tangled webs, eh. Is the NDP going to take the "high road" I wonder? Is it going to work to stop the "deep integration" of Canada AND the United States of America by the U.S. Democrats working in conjunction with the Canadian Liberal Party? Or is the "high road" the NDP is taking in fact supporting and cementing the business "relationships" which bind and control us all. Is the NDP going to stand up with the power of principle, honesty, integrity, and strength of character it claims to have against the Power Curruporation of Canada and it's quest for domination of the continent, or jump in bed with them to keep that corporation in power? And if so, in exchange for what? What did Martin promise 'ol Jackster? Is Jack going to get a goodie similar to what Beluga Stronach got? Will Jack get a Bill Clinton cigar too? Signed by Paul?

Samuel as one who has experienced and as the father of children who have experienced those attitudes, my heart goes out to you and any of your kids. If I ever see any of that going on I'll most certainly "address" it right then and there. NO group deserves to be a target of hate, especially the children.