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The Senlis Report, previously brought to the attention of Vive by <a href="http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060905143119996">rearguard</a>, faults the US-led operation in Afghanistan for the dire state of affairs in that country. [<a href="http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/publications/014_publication">More</a>] <p> A summary can be found at the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,1865302,00.html">Guardian</a>. <p> Another report from the same think tank deals specifically with Canada’s role in Afghanistan: <a href="http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/publications/013_publication">Canada in Kandahar: No Peace to Keep</a> <blockquote>To a large extent, it can be said that Operation Enduring Freedom and the related militaristic counter-narcotics policies are significant contributors to the current state of war in Kandahar and the other southern provinces. <p> Canada and the international community continue to unquestioningly accept America's fundamentally flawed policy approach in southern Afghanistan, thereby jeopardising the success of military operations in the region and the stabilisation, reconstruction and development misssion objectives.</blockquote>

   

YUP! Troll sounds like a fair call.
I agree with you Michele, having a relative in the military &#8220;over there&#8221; is a load of crap.
That is your claim, is it not?
The so called &#8220;Nazi scourge&#8221; were mostly the every-man citizen who swallowed German propaganda of the day while &#8220;our veterans&#8221; were pumped up by the propaganda on this side of the pond. And by the tone of you post you have uncritically accepted to-day&#8217;s propaganda.

Christ! The way you talk the Taliban has a lock on misogyny and woman beating.
The dockets of western courts will set you straight on that score.
First off to be &#8220;DAMN proud&#8221; is a contradiction in terms and secondly to not have the intellectual capacity to differentiate between fact and fiction is cause enough for you to carry your own shame.


---
We have met the enemy and he is us
Pogo
A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled.
Plutarch

   

And I just found <a href="http://thecylinder.wordpress.com/2006/09/09/why-were-in-afghanistan/">this</a> out!!! <p> Listen to the video ... Oh! the tangled web they weave!

   

Thank you for this
Dio

---
We have met the enemy and he is us
Pogo
A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled.
Plutarch

   

I only suggest you don't like what she is saying, because at one time or another I have said exactally the same things she has (which is why you get the deja-vu on her postings); yet I am not a troll?

As for her recently joined status; at one time, we both had recently joined. But no one ran us off because of our views. She has a vested interest in Afghanistan, as I did. My comrade whom I went through basic with died there, and I can't believe some of you (not you specifically, Chall) who wish Michele's sister would too. It sickens me.

AG? Don't know. Haven't seen him around. If he's following the normal pattern of rotation, he's off on vacation for a month. Probabally working out 6 months of tension with Mrs. AG.

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

   

I never cease to be amazed at how easily it is to install beliefs about freedom, democracy and liberty.<br />
Is it that some have a higher level of consciousness with regard to the tangled web than others?<br />
It must be, because I read on these and other pages the penned thoughts of people who by any other standard are recognised as intelligent, well read, and have writing skills far superior to mine, and yet on many topics those I have just described run all their thinking through fields of lies and deceit with totally different results than those who are able to identify and challenge propaganda It doesn&#8217;t seem to matter what the topic is, whether it be Christianity, politics, war and its reasons or the biggie: relationships and love.<br />
<br />
Jimmy Buffet has a song &#8220;Fruitcakes&#8221; that captures what I am struggling to express.<br />
<a href="http://www.cobo.org/knowledge/glc/song.fruit.24.html">http://www.cobo.org/knowledge/glc/song.fruit.24.html</a> <br />
<br />
<br />
--Spoken: <br />
"You know I was talking to my friend Desdemona the other day she <br />
runs this space station and bake shop down near Boomtown. She told <br />
me that human beings are flawed individuals. The cosmic bakers <br />
took us out of the oven a little too early. And that's the <br />
reason we're as crazy as we are and I believe it."<br />
<br />
<br />
That&#8217;s the bad news!<br />
<br />
The good news is that thanks to independent thinkers and those motivated to seek them out what was hidden is now exposed. (Of course exposed does not necessarily equate to shaken beliefs) And it is this exposure that fuels the rest of us who may have only a sense of something being rotten in the state of Denmark: The phrase means "things are unsatisfactory; there is something wrong.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>---<br>We have met the enemy and he is us<br />
Pogo<br />
A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled.<br />
Plutarch

   

"What I have to say to Michele is that your sister is in Afganistan totally against everything my country has stood for."

Bullshit. She is there doing exactally what Canada has stood for. Defending the defenseless. Standing up to the bullies.

Which is exactally what you are, Mallus.


"I too am embarrassed that you're a Canadian."

I am embarrassed you played the intolerance card.

"Better dead than red is the redneck way of thinking. But go back to your church and pray for the Taliban abused children but your sister probably already murdered them."

Yep, yep. And the 'You fight like a Yank' card too. Very embarrassing you have to attack the person doing what they believe is right simply because you think it's wrong. You're distracted. If you want change, you are attacking the wrong person.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." his holiness, the Dhali Llama

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

   

Just exactly which "defenceless" are you referring to. The Afgan civilians. I believe that's the whole point. We had no business going into their country based on the big lie. Even the taliban are Afgans. Do you beleive we should kill them all. I don't think you do because you don't seem that brutal even though you seem somewhat enamoured by the military.
As for playing cards, well, you seem to say that a lot.
There are no cards being played. As for attacking the wrong person. I've tried official channels and gotten nowhere. Maybe one has to adress the "Boots on the ground" to get any response. As with the baby killers in Vietnam, will history repeat itself to get our troops home. The deaf ears of the polititians will anger the masses and eventually counteract the political correctness of "support the troops".

   

You're welcome, Dio!

   

"We had no business going into their country based on the big lie."<br />
<br />
Which lie? That Canadians were killed by people using Afghanistan as a base, five years ago today?<br />
<br />
"As for attacking the wrong person. I've tried official channels and gotten nowhere."<br />
<br />
So, calling out the sister of a serving soldier on the Interet will do any better? You blame Michele for her sisters career decisions? What good will that do?<br />
<br />
"Just exactly which "defenceless" are you referring to. The Afgan civilians."<br />
<br />
Yes. (Thanks for the link, Innes)<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.halifaxherald.com/Search/527313.html">http://www.halifaxherald.com/Search/527313.html</a><br />
<br />
From the Article: "Afghans in Kabul now enjoy opportunities unheard of under Taliban rule."<br />
<br />
As economists far smarter than I have repetedly said - give people the security and opportunity to improve themselves, and you make a friend. Friends do not kill friends. The best way to prevent future September 11's is to remove the economic depression that fosters and breeds terrorism and the people desperate enough to have nothin else to lose, and is far cheaper than the military action that is the 'War on Terror'. The Taliban came because we were doing the opposite.<br />
<br />
As another article on Vive shows, there is a growing humanitarian crisis in the South of Afghanistan. Which is why our troops are there, to remove the impedement to building a safe and secure home for Afghans and deliver aid and supplies to the people there.<br />
<br />
"The deaf ears of the polititians will anger the masses and eventually counteract the political correctness of "support the troops"."<br />
<br />
It has nothing to do with correctness, it has always been a Canadians tradition to support the men and women we send to defend our values with their lives, until the government started using the moniker 'Peacekeeper' to avoid spending any real money on the Military.<p>---<br>"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden<br />

   

Here is the issue in a nutshell when you write: "it has always been a Canadians tradition to support the men and women we send to defend our values with their lives..." What are those values? We get people like Peter MacKay talking about freedom and democracy but what do they mean? Those of us involved in the merger know that his definition of democracy is the ability to manipulate a system to achieve the results you want.

The right wing extremist concept of "freedom" is the freedom of the economic elite to pursue their individual self-interest assisted by but not impeded by government. The concept of "regime change" is designed to establish regimes that accept that kind of freedom.

Are these the values we are trying to impose on others? What right do we have to impose those values by military force? What if I don't share those values?

Peter MacKay is adept at using half truths to create a false perception. When he visited Aghanistan he had the military officials scrambling to find a school for girls for the photo-op he wanted.

Most reports coming out of Afghanistan suggest that except for Kabul, where the Afghan elite is situated and controls a rather corrupt administration, things have become worse. MacKay is using the improvements in Kabul which appear to be financed primarily by the drug trade to promote his agenda. The extremists are now moving into Kabul and things there are likely to get worse there.

   

Back in the mid 1300's, the King of England borrowed heavily for reconstruction from Spanish Banks. Of course, lending to a Foriegn Monarch is kind of dumb, because; how are you going to collect? So, the King of England said "Thanks for the cash!" and the Spanish banks collapsed, throwing them into an economic depression.

Luckily, the Black Death came along, and distracted everyone from the depression.

What does this have to do with the Taliban? Not a damn thing. I just want to see how you will twist into being McKay's fault. Not that it isn't, just we were discussing how Afghanistan's plight is mostly the Taliban's fault. And ours, for letting it happen.

Oh, yes, interfereing in another countries affairs - baaaad. Sorry, forgot.

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

   

You say outside of Kabul, things have gotten much worse. So, prior 9/11/01 they were in the middle of a civil war. That was taking place mostly in the north (rather than the south where the conflict is today). So how exactly is it "worse"? The geography changed, but the north is far more secure and open than it ever was under the Taliban. You make generalize specific events and actions to suit your needs. And anyone that disagrees with you is a troll, a neocon or somehow under the sway of Dubya.

   

As a rebuttal to dc&#8217;s &#8216;what lie?&#8217; I suggest visiting Michel Chossudovsky&#8217;s article at <br />
<a href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060910&articleId=3198">http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060910&articleId=3198</a> <br />
<br />
In the immortal words of Cubbt Checker-<br />
<br />
Come on baby let's do the twist <br />
Come on baby let's do the twist <br />
Take me by my little hand and go like this <br />
Ee-oh twist baby baby twist<br />
<br />
or was it...<br />
<br />
Come on over baby<br />
Whole lotta twistin goin' on<br />
Oooh, come on over baby<br />
Baby, you can't go wrong<br />
Don'tcha know we ain't fakin'<br />
Whole lotta shakin' goin' on<br />
<br />
The being.. it is the rare person who will not "twist" to their preferance, dc included<br />
<p>---<br>We have met the enemy and he is us<br />
Pogo<br />
A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled.<br />
Plutarch

   

<blockquote>Which lie? That Canadians were killed by people using Afghanistan as a base, five years ago today?</blockquote> It is true that Canadians died during 9/11, but there's no evidence that Bin Laden or the Taliban were behind the crime. There is however, plenty of hard evidence that points the finger at the Bush regime. We know, for example, that the WTC towers 1, 2 & 7 we're demolished using a controlled demolition. We know this, because on one hand the laws of physics would have to be violated in order for the official version to hold true, and on the other hand, there's plenty of observational evidence that directly supports a controlled demolition. Furthermore, the US government refuses to investigate or allow indepenent investigations in to the matter, going so far as to seal up and destroy vital physical evidence - it is a serious crime to tamper with criminal evidence, yet that is exactly what has been done. <br><br> I can present compelling evidence to back up what I'm saying, here it is: <br><br> <a href="http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf">Updated Version: Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse? By Steven E. Jones, Ph.D. (PDF document)</a> <br><br> Dr Caleb, you seem like a bright fellow, certainly smart enough to base your convictions on actual evidence, so tell me, what evidence can you present that backs up your claim that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 and that the USG's version of 9/11 is factual?

   

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