The Conservative Party of Canada is A Sad Joke
Streaker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:59 pm
The campaign's only a few hours old and already Harper is screwing up:
$1:
Harper vows free vote on gay marriage
By SUE BAILEY
OTTAWA (CP) - Conservative Leader Stephen Harper launched his election campaign Tuesday by steering it straight into the electoral turbulence of gay marriage.
With the starting gun kicking off the eight-week race still echoing in the air, Harper went out of his way to reopen a politically noxious debate, pledging to restore the traditional definition of marriage - provided Parliament supports the idea in a free vote.
"It will be a genuine free vote when I'm prime minister," Harper said.
"I will not whip our cabinet," he added, referring to the process by which Paul Martin's ministers were forced last summer to support a bill that legalized gay weddings.
Most legal experts agree same-sex marriage is a genie Harper will be hard-pressed to put back in the bottle. He would have to circumvent court judgments allowing gay weddings, as well as a reference opinion from the Supreme Court of Canada.
Harper conceded he would consider the matter closed if MPs don't support introducing new legislation to once again define marriage as the sole domain of one man and one woman.
Either way, he promised to preserve more than 3,000 gay marriages already performed across Canada, though he wouldn't say exactly how.
"That's the commitment we've made and it hasn't changed," Harper said in the lobby outside the House of Commons.
He made a point of raising the thorny issue even after his handlers had cut off questions from reporters, though he later said he was addressing an earlier question he felt obliged to answer.
He also dodged questions about constitutional scholars who say it would be impossible to restore the traditional definition of marriage, and about whether he would use the notwithstanding clause to do it.
Harper has said he believes same-sex couples should be recognized through civil unions that set out economic rights but don't infringe on traditional marriage.
In the 2004 election, the Tory stance against gay weddings cost the party crucial support in urban Ontario and among younger voters.
It also helped the Liberals portray Harper as a kind of far-right bogey man who would undercut the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They wasted no time Tuesday resurrecting that strategy.
"It's this kind of thing that led me to join the Liberal party, that drove me from the Conservative party," said MP Belinda Stronach. "I think it's just plain wrong."
Stronach's dramatic defection to the governing party in May helped the Liberals hold on to power.
"How can one class of citizen be more equal than another? Honestly, I think voters have moved past this issue. Parliament already dealt with that."
Gay activists were dismayed by Harper's remarks.
"What does that say about our confidence in the government, that when a law is passed we can rely on it?" said Gilles Marchildon, executive director of EGALE Canada.
"Instead of creating conditions that bring peace, order and good government, it's chaos, confusion and uncertainty."
Heather MacIvor, a political scientist at the University of Windsor, recently published the book Canadian Politics and Government in the Charter Era.
She leads a seminar class on the Supreme Court reference opinion that dealt with same-sex unions. The high court was clear that marriage, under the Constitution, now includes gay couples, she said.
"You can't use the notwithstanding clause to override the division of powers in the 1867 Constitution," MacIvor said.
Later in the day, Harper returned to themes he outlined after toppling the government Monday. He described the Liberals as friends of "powerful, privileged insiders" and the architects of a "culture of entitlement" a Conservative government would eliminate.
"When our national government is weak and under a cloud, it hurts our country," Harper told cheering supporters during a visit to the campaign headquarters of former Ontario cabinet minister John Baird.
"When they stole your money, they not only broke your trust, they also failed to deliver on your priorities."
A Conservative government would cut taxes, clean up government corruption and give parents and patients alike "choice" in both child care and health care, he added.
In tackling same-sex marriage head-on, Harper has raised an issue that isn't settled for everyone.
Former Liberal MP Pat O'Brien has teamed with ex-Tory MP Grant Hill to form a group called Defend Marriage Canada. They plan to raise money, publish letters and lobby voters during the campaign to elect candidates who oppose gay marriage.
O'Brien quit the Liberals over the issue to sit as an independent MP and is not running for re-election.
He says same-sex weddings are not accepted in the minds of "millions of Canadians."
By SUE BAILEY
OTTAWA (CP) - Conservative Leader Stephen Harper launched his election campaign Tuesday by steering it straight into the electoral turbulence of gay marriage.
With the starting gun kicking off the eight-week race still echoing in the air, Harper went out of his way to reopen a politically noxious debate, pledging to restore the traditional definition of marriage - provided Parliament supports the idea in a free vote.
"It will be a genuine free vote when I'm prime minister," Harper said.
"I will not whip our cabinet," he added, referring to the process by which Paul Martin's ministers were forced last summer to support a bill that legalized gay weddings.
Most legal experts agree same-sex marriage is a genie Harper will be hard-pressed to put back in the bottle. He would have to circumvent court judgments allowing gay weddings, as well as a reference opinion from the Supreme Court of Canada.
Harper conceded he would consider the matter closed if MPs don't support introducing new legislation to once again define marriage as the sole domain of one man and one woman.
Either way, he promised to preserve more than 3,000 gay marriages already performed across Canada, though he wouldn't say exactly how.
"That's the commitment we've made and it hasn't changed," Harper said in the lobby outside the House of Commons.
He made a point of raising the thorny issue even after his handlers had cut off questions from reporters, though he later said he was addressing an earlier question he felt obliged to answer.
He also dodged questions about constitutional scholars who say it would be impossible to restore the traditional definition of marriage, and about whether he would use the notwithstanding clause to do it.
Harper has said he believes same-sex couples should be recognized through civil unions that set out economic rights but don't infringe on traditional marriage.
In the 2004 election, the Tory stance against gay weddings cost the party crucial support in urban Ontario and among younger voters.
It also helped the Liberals portray Harper as a kind of far-right bogey man who would undercut the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They wasted no time Tuesday resurrecting that strategy.
"It's this kind of thing that led me to join the Liberal party, that drove me from the Conservative party," said MP Belinda Stronach. "I think it's just plain wrong."
Stronach's dramatic defection to the governing party in May helped the Liberals hold on to power.
"How can one class of citizen be more equal than another? Honestly, I think voters have moved past this issue. Parliament already dealt with that."
Gay activists were dismayed by Harper's remarks.
"What does that say about our confidence in the government, that when a law is passed we can rely on it?" said Gilles Marchildon, executive director of EGALE Canada.
"Instead of creating conditions that bring peace, order and good government, it's chaos, confusion and uncertainty."
Heather MacIvor, a political scientist at the University of Windsor, recently published the book Canadian Politics and Government in the Charter Era.
She leads a seminar class on the Supreme Court reference opinion that dealt with same-sex unions. The high court was clear that marriage, under the Constitution, now includes gay couples, she said.
"You can't use the notwithstanding clause to override the division of powers in the 1867 Constitution," MacIvor said.
Later in the day, Harper returned to themes he outlined after toppling the government Monday. He described the Liberals as friends of "powerful, privileged insiders" and the architects of a "culture of entitlement" a Conservative government would eliminate.
"When our national government is weak and under a cloud, it hurts our country," Harper told cheering supporters during a visit to the campaign headquarters of former Ontario cabinet minister John Baird.
"When they stole your money, they not only broke your trust, they also failed to deliver on your priorities."
A Conservative government would cut taxes, clean up government corruption and give parents and patients alike "choice" in both child care and health care, he added.
In tackling same-sex marriage head-on, Harper has raised an issue that isn't settled for everyone.
Former Liberal MP Pat O'Brien has teamed with ex-Tory MP Grant Hill to form a group called Defend Marriage Canada. They plan to raise money, publish letters and lobby voters during the campaign to elect candidates who oppose gay marriage.
O'Brien quit the Liberals over the issue to sit as an independent MP and is not running for re-election.
He says same-sex weddings are not accepted in the minds of "millions of Canadians."
Link
Little Stevie just can't help himself, I guess. Does he have any advisers he listens to?
Is this the best the Conservatives can do?
Are the Conservatives doomed to repeating their past mistakes?
hwacker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:07 pm
Why Streaker you don't want a FREE VOTE ?
What else could be more democratic, oh that’s right you’re a liberal they don't believe in that. Sorry.
ziggy @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:10 pm
scandal and corruption
Unreal.
Streaker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:11 pm
It isn't a question of free votes or not. It's a question of why on Earth is Harper choosing to revive this issue during a campaign?
I guess he's decided he doesn't need any votes in urban Ontario.
Talk about political suicide.
ziggy @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Streaker Streaker:
It isn't a question of free votes or not. It's a question of why on Earth is Harper choosing to revive this issue during a campaign?
I guess he's decided he doesn't need any votes in urban Ontario.
Talk about political suicide.
I guess he's decided he doesn't need any votes in urban Ontario.
Talk about political suicide.
The hidden agenda.
$1:
In the 2004 election, the Tory stance against gay weddings cost the party crucial support in urban Ontario and among younger voters.
Are the ontarion urbanite's all gay then or what?
hwacker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:16 pm
Well over 60% of Canadians thought other then the way the Liberals thought, Liberal's think “the majority of Canadians” means < 40%. Let’s have a vote.
Streaker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:21 pm
ziggy ziggy:
Streaker Streaker:
It isn't a question of free votes or not. It's a question of why on Earth is Harper choosing to revive this issue during a campaign?
I guess he's decided he doesn't need any votes in urban Ontario.
Talk about political suicide.
I guess he's decided he doesn't need any votes in urban Ontario.
Talk about political suicide.
The hidden agenda.
[quoteIn the 2004 election, the Tory stance against gay weddings cost the party crucial support in urban Ontario and among younger voters.]Are the ontarion urbanite's all gay then or what?[/quote]
C'mon, ziggy! As far as I'm concerned, if the Tories don't want to win an election, that's okay with me, but they better not start whining about how those damn Ontarians don't vote for them when they insist on reviving polarising issues like this.
Have they learned anything in the last twenty years?
ziggy @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:26 pm
$1:
Let me admit something right off the bat.
I am from Ontario.
Yes that’s right Ontario, the province whose official motto is "We’ll keep electing Liberals No Matter What."
The same Ontario that failed to make the Liberals pay a price for their scandal-ridden record; and the same Ontario that voted for the status quo when the country needed change.
I understand how this sorry voting record has made Ontarians about as popular in Alberta as Michael Moore at a George Bush fund-raising rally.
Indeed, ever since the election Albertans have accused Ontarians of being anti-western or soft on government corruption or just plain stupid.
But, in fact, Ontario is not any of those things.
My province voted the way it did for a much more simple reason: Ontarians are scaredy cats.
Ontarians are wary of change, wary of new ideas and wary of the unknown.
And no wonder. The last time we tried something daring we elected Bob Rae and the NDP. And believe me that did not work out well at all.
The federal Liberals understood Ontario’s innate timidity. They also realized Ontarians did not really know who Conservative Party leader Stephen Harper was or what his party really stood for.
As far as Ontario was concerned Harper and his party were a blank slate. So being the smart political operators that they are, the Liberals eagerly scribbled all over that slate filling it with fear-mongering graffiti.
A key part of their plan was to blitz Ontario TV sets with the most savagely, vicious negative ads the party of tolerance and compassion could dream up.
And it worked.
By the time election rolled around Ontarians were convinced Harper was about to invoke the notwithstanding clause so he could use American-made aircraft carriers to dive-bomb bilingual lesbians on their way to abortion clinics.
Who would ever vote for a guy like that?
Of course, the Liberal attacks were pure nonsense. Harper may be dull, but he's not scary. But in politics it’s define or be defined. And the Conservatives allowed the Liberals to define them.
Does that mean the Conservatives were doomed to fail in Ontario?
No.
First off, the Conservatives should have responded more effectively to the Liberal attack ads. The best way to do that is with attack ads of your own; fight fire with fire.
Surely, the Tory ad guys could have come up with some really nasty ads skewering the Liberal scandals? Had they done so they could have countered the Liberal fear card with an even more powerful emotion- anger.
But the Conservatives chose to take the high-road. Harper even boasted he would not resort to "American-style" attack ads.
So instead we got "Canadian-style" attack ads. The Tory ad on the adscam scandal, for example, featured some guy’s hand reaching into a cookie jar.
A cookie jar?
Cookies don’t make me angry about scandals.. They make me hungry. What vote were the Tories expecting to win over with this ad, the Keebler elves?
Then to make matters worse, they came up with a positive ad featuring shots of Harper with his kids and Harper staring solemnly out the window.
Yawn.
And it wasn’t just the Tory ads that fell short.
The Conservatives also relied too much on disgust with the Liberals to drive Ontario voters into their camp.
But it didn’t work. Why? Because to win over voters you need to give them reasons to vote for you. To do that a party must have a strong policy agenda that focuses on issues that people actually care about.
What issues did the Conservative Party zero in on? Ontarians heard more about what the Conservatives didn’t oppose — bilingualism, government-run health care, abortion — than what they actually supported.
But what’s done is done.
In the next election, if they get their act together, the Conservatives should do better in Ontario, especially if the Liberal-NDP minority alliance translates into bigger government, more spending and higher taxes.
After all, four years of provincial NDP mis-rule paved the way in Ontario for the Mike Harris revolution.
In the meantime, I ask Albertans not to hate Ontario. Pity us instead.
How would you like to have Dalton McGuinty as your premier?
I am from Ontario.
Yes that’s right Ontario, the province whose official motto is "We’ll keep electing Liberals No Matter What."
The same Ontario that failed to make the Liberals pay a price for their scandal-ridden record; and the same Ontario that voted for the status quo when the country needed change.
I understand how this sorry voting record has made Ontarians about as popular in Alberta as Michael Moore at a George Bush fund-raising rally.
Indeed, ever since the election Albertans have accused Ontarians of being anti-western or soft on government corruption or just plain stupid.
But, in fact, Ontario is not any of those things.
My province voted the way it did for a much more simple reason: Ontarians are scaredy cats.
Ontarians are wary of change, wary of new ideas and wary of the unknown.
And no wonder. The last time we tried something daring we elected Bob Rae and the NDP. And believe me that did not work out well at all.
The federal Liberals understood Ontario’s innate timidity. They also realized Ontarians did not really know who Conservative Party leader Stephen Harper was or what his party really stood for.
As far as Ontario was concerned Harper and his party were a blank slate. So being the smart political operators that they are, the Liberals eagerly scribbled all over that slate filling it with fear-mongering graffiti.
A key part of their plan was to blitz Ontario TV sets with the most savagely, vicious negative ads the party of tolerance and compassion could dream up.
And it worked.
By the time election rolled around Ontarians were convinced Harper was about to invoke the notwithstanding clause so he could use American-made aircraft carriers to dive-bomb bilingual lesbians on their way to abortion clinics.
Who would ever vote for a guy like that?
Of course, the Liberal attacks were pure nonsense. Harper may be dull, but he's not scary. But in politics it’s define or be defined. And the Conservatives allowed the Liberals to define them.
Does that mean the Conservatives were doomed to fail in Ontario?
No.
First off, the Conservatives should have responded more effectively to the Liberal attack ads. The best way to do that is with attack ads of your own; fight fire with fire.
Surely, the Tory ad guys could have come up with some really nasty ads skewering the Liberal scandals? Had they done so they could have countered the Liberal fear card with an even more powerful emotion- anger.
But the Conservatives chose to take the high-road. Harper even boasted he would not resort to "American-style" attack ads.
So instead we got "Canadian-style" attack ads. The Tory ad on the adscam scandal, for example, featured some guy’s hand reaching into a cookie jar.
A cookie jar?
Cookies don’t make me angry about scandals.. They make me hungry. What vote were the Tories expecting to win over with this ad, the Keebler elves?
Then to make matters worse, they came up with a positive ad featuring shots of Harper with his kids and Harper staring solemnly out the window.
Yawn.
And it wasn’t just the Tory ads that fell short.
The Conservatives also relied too much on disgust with the Liberals to drive Ontario voters into their camp.
But it didn’t work. Why? Because to win over voters you need to give them reasons to vote for you. To do that a party must have a strong policy agenda that focuses on issues that people actually care about.
What issues did the Conservative Party zero in on? Ontarians heard more about what the Conservatives didn’t oppose — bilingualism, government-run health care, abortion — than what they actually supported.
But what’s done is done.
In the next election, if they get their act together, the Conservatives should do better in Ontario, especially if the Liberal-NDP minority alliance translates into bigger government, more spending and higher taxes.
After all, four years of provincial NDP mis-rule paved the way in Ontario for the Mike Harris revolution.
In the meantime, I ask Albertans not to hate Ontario. Pity us instead.
How would you like to have Dalton McGuinty as your premier?
hwacker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:28 pm
Streaker be a good Montréaler and vote bloc, just take those seats away from the Liberals. Leave the real issues to the other parts of Canada.
ziggy @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:33 pm
Here for all to see
This should be a must read in school so the kids will know how corrupt our government is. These are the morals and values that kids are learning....that it's ok to steal as long as your a lib. Pathetic.
Streaker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:34 pm
hwacker hwacker:
Streaker be a good Montréaler and vote bloc, just take those seats away from the Liberals. Leave the real issues to the other parts of Canada.
Oh so as a Montrealer I should just shut up. More of that famed Conservative tolerance, eh?
hwacker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:36 pm
Streaker Streaker:
hwacker hwacker:
Streaker be a good Montréaler and vote bloc, just take those seats away from the Liberals. Leave the real issues to the other parts of Canada.
Oh so as a Montrealer I should just shut up. More of that famed Conservative tolerance, eh?
Your province is gone already; it's like me going to Danforth to vote for the CPC.
Streaker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:39 pm
hwacker hwacker:
Streaker Streaker:
hwacker hwacker:
Streaker be a good Montréaler and vote bloc, just take those seats away from the Liberals. Leave the real issues to the other parts of Canada.
Oh so as a Montrealer I should just shut up. More of that famed Conservative tolerance, eh?
Your province is gone already; it's like me going to Danforth to vote for the CPC.
Streaker @ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:42 pm
ziggy ziggy:
Here for all to see
This should be a must read in school so the kids will know how corrupt our government is. These are the morals and values that kids are learning....that it's ok to steal as long as your a lib. Pathetic.
This should be a must read in school so the kids will know how corrupt our government is. These are the morals and values that kids are learning....that it's ok to steal as long as your a lib. Pathetic.
But it's okay for a guy who cares more about his province than his country to be PM as long as he's a con, right? Pathetic.